Tappett Noise

[DaveB]

Thanks Iain, that sounds like the stuff I got:

I tried an audio recording too... not fantastic though, the auto gain control plays around with the levels, sounds worse in real life... but you get some idea

tapping.wav

Got it booked in for Friday 9th; in the meantime I will (tomorrow) flush the oil with the Nulon gear (pour into engine, idle for 10-15 minutes, drop oil straight away with filter - getting it all over the driveway no doubt ) Then will replace with some 10W40 semi synthetic.

Being as I have heard the NEOs don't have hydraulic lifters, I don't think the oil is the real problem. But it should make it quieter and thus make me feel better about driving it until I can get it to the workshop.

[chef_stagea]

Dave my injectors in the 260 are retry loud when the bonnets open, u sure it's not this? Is it running ok? Eg, not missing or jolting? Also I run 0w40 castrol edge I'm pretty sure in the 260 this ok?or change for summer

[DaveB]

Yeah cheers Adam; I've run 0W40 (mobil 1) a few times before and it was great stuff; never any ticking at startup and quiet. The 0 degrees C viscosity probably not so important in oz I guess (tho maybe in winter). Pity it's so damn expensive.

It's louder than injectors; quite loud when engine is warm, and definitely only one. Got Shaun from Boostworx to have a listen and he was pretty sure it was tappet(s); was pretty loud.

Edit: no missing/jolting; just cured a misfire problem by biting the bullet and going for a set of splitfires, 7 range copper plugs (BCPR7ES) gapped to 1mm, running beautifully. I have heard my injectors before, but they weren't this loud.

Edited September 28, 2009 by DaveB

[NickR33]

Stop driving it 'til you can get someone to have a close look... its very loud and RB's rarely have problems in the head... bearing damage is much more common... I really hope its a top end problem but it better to be safe than sorry... good luck

[DaveB]

Thanks Nick. Yeah I'm really hoping it's 'up top' and not 'down low' too. Sounds just like a tappet rattle... but I have very little experience with decent engines. Oil change tonight and I guess the bus tomorrow.

[DaveB]

Flush seemed to work well; don't know if it did any good since I change my oil so often anyway, but it sure came out fast Plus managed not to burn myself so that was good. 10W40 synth in now but noise still there... not actually sure if it's quieter or not. After running it for a bit I can't hear it inside the car; might have just needed to pump around a bit.

[Stinky Rooster]

You can do some fairly serious damage to your valve stems (and valve stem seals) by having that rattle. I would thouroghly recommend getting your shims checked/adjusted.

As an aside, the engine oil flush is a good idea, and having never useed the product posted I cant comment on it, but in days of yore I have been a great fan of using diesel engine oil as a flushing agent. The levels of detergents etc in Aussie spec diesel oil is realy high due to the stupid amount of sodium and other nasties in our domestic diesel that contaminate the oil. I have used this trick (using the correct weight oil in diesel spec) in the same manner that nulon stuff seems to be used with great effect. Just drop out the existing oil (leaving the filter in place) fill it up with the diesel oil, run the engine for 10-15 mins and then drop it out, whack a new filter on and then fill it up with the good stuff. Just be aware that if a stuck hydraulic lifter is likely to be a problem (not an issue here, I know) you will know about it straight away.....

[DaveB]

Sounds good Chook; I only wonder about getting it all out, I'm sure some of that flushing agent I put in will be still hanging around in the engine to thin out the oil, no matter how long it's left to drain.

Update - (dunno why I keep posting about this must be bored ) 10W40 oil has made things a bit quieter with the ticking only intermittent when the engine is cold, but as it warms up it begins to return to its normal volume. Not as loud as before, but nearly.

[DaveB]

Another update... and it's bad news unfortunately. A rebuild is looking more and more likely.

After getting it into the workshop, they pulled the tappet covers and said that there is some wear on the cam lobes and that the tappets have worn in the guides. Not just a little wear, either - some 2mm of it. Because so much metal has gone missing they thought it a good idea to pull the sump and check the main bearings (I change the oil often so there's probably nothing in the filter). That means engine out. Plus in either case I need another head (anyone have a second-hand NEO head w/out cam's going cheap?). So I'm up for:

- a second-hand (neo) head

- labour/parts to rebuild, face and test head

- labour to reinstall head

- labour to pull engine out, drop sump, remove bearing endcaps and check bearings etc.

I'm starting to wonder at this stage if it might make financial sense to simply rebuild my bottom end while I'm at it. I've apparrently had some sort of oil starvation problem which has shagged my head. And I didn't consider that missing metal could mean destroyed bottom end (although I don't know if that's the case).

The only thing I can think of which has been changed, is that the new turbo oil line had to have a couple of restrictions removed from the banjo bolts. Surely that wouldn't cause a significant change in oil supply to the head? Everybody who fits a turbo does it, sometimes even more drastically.

Anybody with any suggestions on how to get out of this one for under 10 grand please chime in and let me know...

oh well, I'll just build it better I guess. I've never had a car with a new engine (though this one felt bloody new when I got it at ~88,xxx)

[zei20l]

buy a 2nd hand motor and put that in instead.............cheaper, but you run the risk of having other problems with it. or it might be fantastic!

sorry that the engine oil flush didnt fix it mate!

[DaveB]

Thanks Iain; yeah definitely have to consider that option. Looks like it was probably already too far gone. Maybe Chook was right.... but I can't say what came first: the rattle or the damage.

[66yostagea]

If you have the reddies rebuild your engine. That way you will know what you have under the bonnet. My son rebuilt his CA18 drifter with bigger, stronger better everything. It was a long process but came out the tunnel with 200+kw.

I sometimes contemplate what I would do if I blew my motor and, rebuild is the way to go.

[KiwiRS4T]

I hope you have a good job Dave! You are not having much luck at the moment.

I would not recond unless you want a big hp engine down the track. To do it properly you are looking at $10K.

I would pull the engine out and look for damage and measure it up for rings and bearings. If it is too far gone I would get another engine ($1500 - $2000) plus another $1k for cam belt (or pull the belt off your old engine if you have done it recently) ...and labour: total about $3k.

[QWK32]

:cough: RB26 :cough:

[66yostagea]

Money Pits

[DaveB]

Thanks guys. Lol @ the RB26 idea that entered my head... for a fleeting moment... but 2 x everything and the worry about needing to get it engineered (?) so expensive...

Thanks Rob yeah from tappet rattle to rebuild... it's not the way I would have guessed things would go. Hope those estimates of yours are good... 'cause that sounds more do-able.

Labour is so expensive though, and difficult to change (without having bulk time on my hands, without a car). I could pull the engine, and yes it does have a pretty new timing belt (about 18,000k's old though I guess), but that's only about $100 worth. Also has new water pump and tensioner bearings too, same mileage. Going to get in contact with the workshop next week about prices for options (best case/worst case type scenarios), but basically we started out talking about them pulling the engine out and checking bottom end bearings (which can be done without pulling the pistons out, apparently - how the hell can you tell the condition of a bearing though without plasti-guage or something?).

But if it goes that far... then I think I should replace bearings and rings while I'm there. But then do I need new pistons? New rods? ARP studs/bolts? Even a freakin' head gasket is about 200 bucks. Yikes...

Plus I need a new head anyway; ideally I'd find a second-hand NEO head in good condition with no cams. Meaning I'd need a set of cams... thinking a set of pon-cams... I think actually rebuilding the head would be expensive labour-wise... Tangles has done it and I think from memory the head work was about 3 grand including pon-cams. Hmm. I want to rebuild the block though... = at least 6 grand plus labour methinks... hmm.