Questions About Mantaining And Driving A Forged Motor

[cactus]

Did they cover it under warranty? and if so how long was the turn around from taking it off to putting it back on?

I dont mean to take over this thread, just a question which is relative to some posts in here...

What do you believe is the best way to bed the rings with a fresh motor? My new 30/25 combo will be ready soon, and I was told by a very reputable tuner/builder to start the engine from cold, and let it idle, every min for 10 mins bring the revs up to about 2500rpm for a few seconds (repeat this). Then turn engine off, let it cool completely, and then do this again 3 times a day for a couple of days. Then take it off to get its run in tune.

What do you think? I hear ACL bearings are very particular and require babying within the first few hundred km's

And as asked, what is the best oil to use on run in and once the first 1500km's have been brought up...

[TiTAN]

my car was started and run for 30 seconds to make sure it started, idled properly and oil pressure came up. then it went off to a dyno to be run in and tuned. (both occured on the same day doing 3 oil and filter changes to make sure there wasnt excessive metal in the oil) i believe it is now running synthetic oil after only about 45 pulls on the dyno + loading the engine up for the run in.

[Rolls]

Completely forgot about this thread.

Replaced the turbo a few months ago and the car blows zero smoke now. Funny that GCG denied it was their fault and said it was the tune of the car that destroyed it from overheating. I would imagine an oil seal leaking enough oil to blow smoke would quite possibly cause excess friction and overheat the bearing also. Oh well, all in the past now.

[snozzle]

Seeing as though the thread has been revived already i also have a question to ask

I have recently built up an sr20det for an s14 running a high mount gt3082r with cp pistons and cp rings, acl race bearings etc and we have done roughly 300kms on a rich run in tune with rev limit of 4500rpm

wen we got it back from tuner (engine ran for no more than 2 hours on the dyno, probably about 1 hour really) we did an oil change (20w50 mineral oil) but wen i opened the oil cap a small wiff of white smoke came out of the rocker cover, didnt think anything of it..

a few hundred kms later, it never did it again, doesnt blow any smoke at all either, we actually noticed the turbo was starting to spool abit earlier also, there is no piston slap at all wen hot, sounds like a stock engine, if not quieter!.. but has a very tiny amount of piston slap wen cold, can only hear it if bonnet is open and ur head is right ontop of the engine

anywho.. the tuner is booked out for a full rpm tune for another 3 weeks

so my question is, will it make any difference to the way the rings bed in if we keep "running" the motor in on this tune with 4500rpm limit (boost just barely comes to 0.7bar at this rpm) or should we cap our kms to 500km till we can put abit more boost through it and higher rpm (7000 or so)

thanks

Edited March 29, 2010 by snozzle

[dori34]

Completely forgot about this thread.

Replaced the turbo a few months ago and the car blows zero smoke now. Funny that GCG denied it was their fault and said it was the tune of the car that destroyed it from overheating. I would imagine an oil seal leaking enough oil to blow smoke would quite possibly cause excess friction and overheat the bearing also. Oh well, all in the past now.

that sounds a bit dodgey,

been hearing quite a few bad things about their "hiflows"

[Rolls]

It was out of warranty anyway, but you could argue that with the tiny amount of use it had gone through it was unacceptable. There's lots of cases of items being replaced outside of warranty because the failure was deemed unreasonable.

I had a second opinion here in Adelaide as well and the bloke I spoke to said even if it had no water supply and running at 20psi (I was running it at 10psi) that it should have lasted longer than it did.

[Jembo]

Seeing as though the thread has been revived already i also have a question to ask

I have recently built up an sr20det for an s14 running a high mount gt3082r with cp pistons and cp rings, acl race bearings etc and we have done roughly 300kms on a rich run in tune with rev limit of 4500rpm

wen we got it back from tuner (engine ran for no more than 2 hours on the dyno, probably about 1 hour really) we did an oil change (20w50 mineral oil) but wen i opened the oil cap a small wiff of white smoke came out of the rocker cover, didnt think anything of it..

a few hundred kms later, it never did it again, doesnt blow any smoke at all either, we actually noticed the turbo was starting to spool abit earlier also, there is no piston slap at all wen hot, sounds like a stock engine, if not quieter!.. but has a very tiny amount of piston slap wen cold, can only hear it if bonnet is open and ur head is right ontop of the engine

anywho.. the tuner is booked out for a full rpm tune for another 3 weeks

so my question is, will it make any difference to the way the rings bed in if we keep "running" the motor in on this tune with 4500rpm limit (boost just barely comes to 0.7bar at this rpm) or should we cap our kms to 500km till we can put abit more boost through it and higher rpm (7000 or so)

thanks

I'm also curious to see some opinions on this.....

[Rolls]

I'm far from an expert on this but I would imagine that it could only make the rings bed in better not worse by 'continuing to run it in'. I imagine however you would obviously cause greater wear on the bores/bearings due to running a shitty mineral oil.

Perhaps do a compression test, if all is well then just dump the oil. Definitely wait for someone with some first hand experience to pipe in before doing that though.

[NSNPWR]

If the rings are bed, theyre bed, simple.

Driving it around as it is isnt going to hurt it at all...you'd be quite safe to bump the rev limit up some as long as the tune has sufficient fuel in it etc...if its not tuned then leave as is but youre not going to hurt it...

Need to be careful when running in new motors on RICH RICH tunes as this can wash the bores and contribute to them glazing...

Had enormous issues many years ago with a red top SR20DET built by Chris Milton Engine Developments in Adelaide...they rebuilt it using stock pistons which was fine with me, however, the piston to bore clearances were way too big and it was chewing through rings after only a few 100kms...after having the thing in and out several times, forking out sh1tloads to have it run in properly on Engine Dynos etc, finally had a Piston drag test done and the piston quite literally just fell through the bore...Lol...ffs....amatuers! Ended up in small claims court...settled out of court...small consolation after all the fvcking around!!!

Another problem caused by massive crankcase pressures as I had above is shagged Turbo rear oil seals.....was chasing my tail there with that one for a while! Smoke, smoke and more smoke!

[r33_racer]

The rings were bed in probably within the first 50kms of driving it, if you gave it some good hard squirts.

You need to understand that piston rings only seal properly on the power stroke, every other stroke they are virtually dragging in the bore. They rely on the rapidly expanding gases from the burning of the mixture to get down in behind the ring itself and push it down on the ringland/seat and out against the bore(hence why top racers usually gas port their pistons for increased piston ring seal). By running low boost and driving it like a girl the top ring isnt going to be doing that job as well as it needs inorder to conform the bore to its shape to seal properly.

You only need to give it about a dozen good 3/4 boost/rpm loaded pulls and they will be right. All done and then you are ready for a proper full tune and go flog it. When I rebuilt my rb25 3 years ago my tuner wanted me to baby it for 1500-2000km till it all "beds in". I argued my point and in the end I just went and did a couple of burn outs and flogged it around the mountains a couple of times and changed the oil a few times. Luckily he never checked the odometer, so I just told him i did it and then got it fully tuned. The motor has been perfect with no oil use or smoke over the last three years. I run acl (ross) pistons in it too, good piston and ring set!

There was a good article somewhere written by a motorbike guy in europe or america on how to 'bed in' your motor properly, it was linked via the gtruk forums i think.

[snozzle]

well we havent been babying it, car actually does quite alot of speed in 5th even though its only 4500rpm rev limit

thanks for the input guys, pretty much confirmed what my thoughts were already

full rpm tune booked for april 12th

[r33_racer]

Cool.

I found the article I was thinking of too.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[Rolls]

I wonder how audi/merc bed in their super cars, surely they would have done some ridiculous amount of research into it.

[TiTAN]

Rolls, audi and lambo have a "mega factory's" ep dedicated to each one. i believe they cover running the engines for the first time.

Edited March 30, 2010 by TiTAN

[Rolls]

Oh I do not doubt this, I am just curious what their method involves regarding kilometres and oil changes.

[Adriano]

Im pretty sure diesel audis dont get an oil change till 30,000 only a top up at 15k

[Rolls]

Oh I meant regarding running the motor in, like whether they run it on mineral oil for 500kms, if they run it in on a dyno blah blah.

[TiTAN]

lambos come off the production line and directly into a dyno room according to the mega factories ep, after the engines are assembled they are thrown on an engine dyno also. though they never say what kind of fluids are used when doing it.

[NSNPWR]

When I rebuilt my rb25 3 years ago my tuner wanted me to baby it for 1500-2000km till it all "beds in". I argued my point and in the end I just went and did a couple of burn outs and flogged it around the mountains a couple of times and changed the oil a few times. Luckily he never checked the odometer, so I just told him i did it and then got it fully tuned.

I dont think anyone would suggest doing burnouts to run a motor in mate...giving it some stick through the hills, no problem, but static burnouts?

[N1GTR]

Rolls, audi and lambo have a "mega factory's" ep dedicated to each one. i believe they cover running the engines for the first time.

Please tell me that's on normal tv not foxtel?!