Getting Dudded On 98ron Fuel!

[GTR-N1]

A year ago, servos were charging about 10c more for 98RON petrol than ULP.

I think if memory serves me that 2 yrs ago, the difference was about 9c

Now that difference has jumped up to 14c and even more.

NRMA has put in a complaint to the ACCC that this must stop.

Any thoughts? Anyone in the know? Y-Y-Y?

[Duncan]

I've got to tell you Terry...I'm beginning to wonder if fuel companies might just be out to make money at our expense in any possible way. I know that's a big claim but when you put together tricks like following the SGP price (even though the majority of our fuel is refined in aus), changing the bowser price the same day as SQP prices go up even though it was purchased a year ago at lower prices), telling people tuesdays are cheap and then changing to wednesdays for cheap (after everyone has bought fuel on tuesday), showing the "with discount price" in huge writing but the actual price very small, putting prices up 20% before busy weekends, putting 10% ethanol in fuel but not reducing prices, and now charging more and more for a fuel as it becomes more popular (how does that make sense when it is meant to be about covering additional fixed costs for higher level of refining).

I'm honestly beginning to wonder if these fuel companies are just large multinational oligopolies with teams of full time people dedicated to working out how to make the most money from their customers!

In any case, good on the NRMA for calling it out....with any luck they might make some headway....

[BASHO]

A year ago, servos were charging about 10c more for 98RON petrol than ULP.

I think if memory serves me that 2 yrs ago, the difference was about 9c

Now that difference has jumped up to 14c and even more.

NRMA has put in a complaint to the ACCC that this must stop.

Any thoughts? Anyone in the know? Y-Y-Y?

Because they can and the fact that the government is never going to shoot what is arguably its best tax collector.

[mad082]

I've got to tell you Terry...I'm beginning to wonder if fuel companies might just be out to make money at our expense in any possible way. I know that's a big claim but when you put together tricks like following the SGP price (even though the majority of our fuel is refined in aus), changing the bowser price the same day as SQP prices go up even though it was purchased a year ago at lower prices), telling people tuesdays are cheap and then changing to wednesdays for cheap (after everyone has bought fuel on tuesday), showing the "with discount price" in huge writing but the actual price very small, putting prices up 20% before busy weekends, putting 10% ethanol in fuel but not reducing prices, and now charging more and more for a fuel as it becomes more popular (how does that make sense when it is meant to be about covering additional fixed costs for higher level of refining).

I'm honestly beginning to wonder if these fuel companies are just large multinational oligopolies with teams of full time people dedicated to working out how to make the most money from their customers!

In any case, good on the NRMA for calling it out....with any luck they might make some headway....

you mean to say that the oil companies are actually businesses trying to make money???? i don't believe it.

LOL

i love how so many people complain about the price of fuel yet a large amount of people will buy bottled water. fuel companies are probably making less profit from a tank of fuel than the water companies do from a single bottle.

also, while australia may refine a large portion of the petroleum, it still has to import a large amount of crude oil. if we didn't have to import any oil, and were even in a position to export oil, our prices would be lower.

[astrotristan]

i love how so many people complain about the price of fuel yet a large amount of people will buy bottled water. fuel companies are probably making less profit from a tank of fuel than the water companies do from a single bottle.

lol ^^^ totally agree!

yesterday i filled up, 114c for regular unleaded (109 for E10) and premium was 130c

lucky it was tuesday and lucky i had a 4c off docket

[dori34]

lets just hope it goes down back to the 10/11c on top of unleaded days

[BASHO]

you mean to say that the oil companies are actually businesses trying to make money???? i don't believe it.

LOL

i love how so many people complain about the price of fuel yet a large amount of people will buy bottled water. fuel companies are probably making less profit from a tank of fuel than the water companies do from a single bottle.

also, while australia may refine a large portion of the petroleum, it still has to import a large amount of crude oil. if we didn't have to import any oil, and were even in a position to export oil, our prices would be lower.

I was amazed to.

We do.

[910trx]

i dont understand how when fuel was at its peak last year it was around $1.50 for standard unleaded where the price for fuel was >$100US per barrel

when the recession hit crude was selling for around $30US a barrel

so i would assume that the justification for the original high prices being directly related to the price of crude would have meant that at the times where oil was at 30% of the highest price this year, fuel should have been selling for 30% of that at the bowser, ie 45 cents a litre. But the lowest i have seen in the last 12 months was maybe $1.15. Hardly a reflection of the crude oil price which was drummed into us repeatedly for years prior to its peak.

but the world is over bent over a barrel - a crude oil barrel with its pants down, we know there is not enough fuel to last forever, the world is set up to use that fuel - they can charge what ever they want and we have to cringe and bear it while they ream us. there are no realistic or readily available alternatives around to avoid using fuel to create leaverage against these giants.

[mad082]

we might export oil, but overall, australia imports a lot of our oil. according to a government site, in 2008 australia produced 25.5 gigalitres of crude oil and condensate, exported 16 gigalitres and imported 26 gigalitres. so our imports were more than our production.

[mad082]

i dont understand how when fuel was at its peak last year it was around $1.50 for standard unleaded where the price for fuel was >$100US per barrel

when the recession hit crude was selling for around $30US a barrel

so i would assume that the justification for the original high prices being directly related to the price of crude would have meant that at the times where oil was at 30% of the highest price this year, fuel should have been selling for 30% of that at the bowser, ie 45 cents a litre. But the lowest i have seen in the last 12 months was maybe $1.15. Hardly a reflection of the crude oil price which was drummed into us repeatedly for years prior to its peak.

but the world is over bent over a barrel - a crude oil barrel with its pants down, we know there is not enough fuel to last forever, the world is set up to use that fuel - they can charge what ever they want and we have to cringe and bear it while they ream us. there are no realistic or readily available alternatives around to avoid using fuel to create leaverage against these giants.

well for starters, the government takes approx 38 cents from every litre of fuel (not including the GST). also the actual production (wages, etc) costs remain the same no matter the price of oil, so it is only the small amount of the price that the oil contributes to that should've dropped to 30%.

[iamhe77]

you mean to say that the oil companies are actually businesses trying to make money???? i don't believe it.

LOL

i love how so many people complain about the price of fuel yet a large amount of people will buy bottled water. fuel companies are probably making less profit from a tank of fuel than the water companies do from a single bottle.

also, while australia may refine a large portion of the petroleum, it still has to import a large amount of crude oil. if we didn't have to import any oil, and were even in a position to export oil, our prices would be lower.

Yes they are companies clearly out to make money (why else would you be in business?), but their ethics are poor and being that petrol is currently a necessity for most people, "Fair Play" has to come into their dealings.

As someone who drinks a fair bit of water and uses a fair bit of fuel, I never buy bottled water (rip off) as I have an under bench filter on the tap home so I just take it from the mains supply. Hell I could also just drink it straight from the tap, get it free at most resturants or drink rainwater caught in a tank, thus I have a choice.

Do you have a choice with petrol? No chance.

Sure, you can choose which "supplier" you buy from, but since they all charge the same price and clearly have the same business ethics, there really is no choice.

The only "choice" with regards to fuel is to switch to LPG...

i dont understand how when fuel was at its peak last year it was around $1.50 for standard unleaded where the price for fuel was >$100US per barrel

when the recession hit crude was selling for around $30US a barrel

so i would assume that the justification for the original high prices being directly related to the price of crude would have meant that at the times where oil was at 30% of the highest price this year, fuel should have been selling for 30% of that at the bowser, ie 45 cents a litre. But the lowest i have seen in the last 12 months was maybe $1.15. Hardly a reflection of the crude oil price which was drummed into us repeatedly for years prior to its peak.

but the world is over bent over a barrel - a crude oil barrel with its pants down, we know there is not enough fuel to last forever, the world is set up to use that fuel - they can charge what ever they want and we have to cringe and bear it while they ream us. there are no realistic or readily available alternatives around to avoid using fuel to create leaverage against these giants.

Actually, ULP was $1.70 ($1.80 for 98) in VIC, so while I get where you are coming from with the crude oil price drop, refining it does not cost less and must be factored into the price of fuel.

So I would say that $1.15 for ULP is pretty reasonable.

EDIT: LOL. Mad082 beat me to it.

Edited September 30, 2009 by iamhe77

[pixel8r]

The OP mentioned the price difference between 98ron and 91ron fuel. The gap has been slowly widening and yes it is annoying. I doubt its anything other than just a simple price increase. The same way other businesses increase their prices purely to generate higher profits. Basically they want to increase their profit margins off those people who are already prepared to pay a bit extra for fuel. Sounds like a reasonable idea to me...except that its not really fair. But it obviously works for them. Just sucks to be us.

There is a general rule with the price of an item, that it is not priced based on what it COSTS, it is priced based on what the market can handle. This goes for much more than just fuel. How many companies buy an item for 30c and sell it for over $100? Lots!! But we pay it because there is no choice. If they put the price up to $100 a litre overnight (a ridiculous example), we'd all find ways to walk to work or catch the bus. So obviously that wont happen. They will have economists trying to find the price points which generate the most profit.

And as for the price cycle - its the same as what the airlines do...and its pretty simple. Most people dont need to buy fuel on a specific day, so the ones most conscious of price can wait till tuesdays (or is it wednesdays?) and the ones who dont care so much or who cant afford to wait will pay a higher price, generating a higher profit. So everyone gets fuel at a price they can tolerate and the fuel companies win because they're making more profit on all the other days. They know we cant go somewhere else so they have no reason to keep it low all week.

I'm not sure govt involvement is necessarily a good idea either. And it probably is true that they will not harm what is one of their biggest tax collectors.

What we need is more competition for fuels. If electric cars were to arrive, we'd have a real choice, although the power companies are not exactly a better alternative to fuel companies - more demand = higher prices. I think the problem is that our fuel all comes from the same suppliers so whilst there are many different fuel "brands" - really it all links back to only a few suppliers (or maybe only 1 supplier if you trace it far enough).

[mad082]

Yes they are companies clearly out to make money (why else would you be in business?), but their ethics are poor and being that petrol is currently a necessity for most people, "Fair Play" has to come into their dealings.

As someone who drinks a fair bit of water and uses a fair bit of fuel, I never buy bottled water (rip off) as I have an under bench filter on the tap home so I just take it from the mains supply. Hell I could also just drink it straight from the tap, get it free at most resturants or drink rainwater caught in a tank, thus I have a choice.

Do you have a choice with petrol? No chance.

Sure, you can choose which "supplier" you buy from, but since they all charge the same price and clearly have the same business ethics, there really is no choice.

The only "choice" with regards to fuel is to switch to LPG...

Actually, ULP was $1.70 ($1.80 for 98) in VIC, so while I get where you are coming from with the crude oil price drop, refining it does not cost less and must be factored into the price of fuel.

So I would say that $1.15 for ULP is pretty reasonable.

EDIT: LOL. Mad082 beat me to it.

that isn't the whole picture. it more comes down to the fact that in most states each brand doesn't own a refinery so a large portion of stations are all buying from the one refinery, reguardless of the brand of the station. so that plays a part in it. and i understand that this does also mean there should be some sort of fair play in all of this as well. but at the end of the day, fuel here is reasonably cheap compared to other countries. england is currently paying around $1.90 a litre for regular unleaded (mostly due to taxes), new zealand is paying from around $1.50+ (but generally around $1.55) for 91 octane

also it shits me off when people gripe about the tax on fuel and say that they should cut the tax on fuel. well guess what, if they did, they'd only raise the tax on something else to make up for it. it isn't like they don't give anything back from the money they take. the most obvious being the handouts late last year and earlier this year, but also in funding for roads, hospitals and all that sort of crap. and i just did a very quick calculation, if you use 25L of fuel a week, 52 weeks a year, you'd only be paying a bit over $10 a week in tax on that. if you were then to go and take advantage of the superanuation bonuses the government has been doing where they put money into your super if you do, you'd be getting the amount of tax you paid on the fuel put back into your super.

[iamhe77]

that isn't the whole picture. it more comes down to the fact that in most states each brand doesn't own a refinery so a large portion of stations are all buying from the one refinery, reguardless of the brand of the station. so that plays a part in it. and i understand that this does also mean there should be some sort of fair play in all of this as well. but at the end of the day, fuel here is reasonably cheap compared to other countries. england is currently paying around $1.90 a litre for regular unleaded (mostly due to taxes), new zealand is paying from around $1.50+ (but generally around $1.55) for 91 octane

Exactly. Which is what I am saying about a lack of choice, thus the need for *ahem* tougher regulations on the trading practices of oil companies.

But since our Government suck the cock's of the oil companies, I guess we have to deal with it.

also it shits me off when people gripe about the tax on fuel and say that they should cut the tax on fuel. well guess what, if they did, they'd only raise the tax on something else to make up for it. it isn't like they don't give anything back from the money they take. the most obvious being the handouts late last year and earlier this year, but also in funding for roads, hospitals and all that sort of crap. and i just did a very quick calculation, if you use 25L of fuel a week, 52 weeks a year, you'd only be paying a bit over $10 a week in tax on that. if you were then to go and take advantage of the superanuation bonuses the government has been doing where they put money into your super if you do, you'd be getting the amount of tax you paid on the fuel put back into your super.

I will have a lower income tax with the fuel tax the way it is thanks... Now, the GST component being a tax of a tax could be something to piss and moan about.

Nice point on the Super contributions (ahh, real world logic ).

[mad082]

The OP mentioned the price difference between 98ron and 91ron fuel. The gap has been slowly widening and yes it is annoying. I doubt its anything other than just a simple price increase. The same way other businesses increase their prices purely to generate higher profits. Basically they want to increase their profit margins off those people who are already prepared to pay a bit extra for fuel. Sounds like a reasonable idea to me...except that its not really fair. But it obviously works for them. Just sucks to be us.

There is a general rule with the price of an item, that it is not priced based on what it COSTS, it is priced based on what the market can handle. This goes for much more than just fuel. How many companies buy an item for 30c and sell it for over $100? Lots!! But we pay it because there is no choice. If they put the price up to $100 a litre overnight (a ridiculous example), we'd all find ways to walk to work or catch the bus. So obviously that wont happen. They will have economists trying to find the price points which generate the most profit.

And as for the price cycle - its the same as what the airlines do...and its pretty simple. Most people dont need to buy fuel on a specific day, so the ones most conscious of price can wait till tuesdays (or is it wednesdays?) and the ones who dont care so much or who cant afford to wait will pay a higher price, generating a higher profit. So everyone gets fuel at a price they can tolerate and the fuel companies win because they're making more profit on all the other days. They know we cant go somewhere else so they have no reason to keep it low all week.

I'm not sure govt involvement is necessarily a good idea either. And it probably is true that they will not harm what is one of their biggest tax collectors.

What we need is more competition for fuels. If electric cars were to arrive, we'd have a real choice, although the power companies are not exactly a better alternative to fuel companies - more demand = higher prices. I think the problem is that our fuel all comes from the same suppliers so whilst there are many different fuel "brands" - really it all links back to only a few suppliers (or maybe only 1 supplier if you trace it far enough).

oddly enough, this is where the fuel companies become the good guys. they know that oil is a finite resource and it's running out, so they are the ones that are pushing the developement or renewable resources and technologies, because they know that if they don't get on the bandwagon, they aren't going to be making money in years to come as oil won't be used as much.

also you are right about the perceived value of goods. i'm sure there are plenty of people who would be shocked to know what some of their high priced items actually cost to make. it just so happens that fuel has a low perceived value and as such we make a big fuss if it goes up by a small amount (although percentage wise it is going up by a large amount).

i think the biggest issue is that we have become a society that is so dependant on oil based products that we have sort of painted ourselves into a corner. and the government certain didn't help things by being greedy.

[Birds]

I'm with you mad, I get sick of people complaining about taxes in general as if a Government can exist without them...or as if they are some sort of enemy out to steal your money from you lol.

With regards to the premium petrol price increase...well you do still have a choice to use an octane booster instead lol...I must admit it annoys me that this price has increased relative to the price of regular unleaded, but apparently so has the cost of the additives.

Oh yeah, on the topic of bottled water...I drink water straight out of the tap. Quite literally, I don't even use a cup. And nothing tastes better! Have done this all my life and there's nothing wrong with my health either. I only buy bottled water for the bottle, to use and re-use at the gym, because you should probably replace water bottles every now and then.

[r33cruiser]

I don't know about most of you, but the price really isn't that bad.

$20 bucks in the daily gets me 300kms, $8 in the bike gets me 250kms.

But when it comes to filling the skyrice for a track day etc, it's only 1 tank of fuel for what.....about $80 :S. It's pretty affordable. Besides, I saw on the financial section on channel 10, that the bowser price could get as low as "100c" a litre.

Sure $1.30 is excessive compared to say a year ago, but here its normal.

[R TUNE]

in darwin it's about 20-30c more then 95 with is 10c more then 91ron.

dont even bother with 98 anymore

currently $1.40 for 95 ron

[bozodos]

it pisses me off no end that the local servos all charge $1.40-1.55 for 98 irrespective of ULP prices. They dont fluctuate during the weekly cycle either. The only servos who change 98 prices are United and the Shell and BP on the NSW side of the border (until about a year ago the NSW Shell was selling 98 for 17cpl CHEAPER than Mildura servos. Now they price in line with the other major ones.)

On the other hand, that same servo has done away completely with 91 and its Premium prices are the same as ULP prices over the bridge. This is irrelevant to me as my car is tuned for 98, and the Datsun gets United Plus ULP as it is 1.20 and it has yet to eat the fuel lines, block up etc lol.

This is a big deal for me as my car is daily driven and I do a lot of kays, not to mention using 50 odd litres every 300km.

Edited October 1, 2009 by bozodos

[mad082]

it pisses me off no end that the local servos all charge $1.40-1.55 for 98 irrespective of ULP prices. They dont fluctuate during the weekly cycle either. The only servos who change 98 prices are United and the Shell and BP on the NSW side of the border (until about a year ago the NSW Shell was selling 98 for 17cpl CHEAPER than Mildura servos. Now they price in line with the other major ones.)

On the other hand, that same servo has done away completely with 91 and its Premium prices are the same as ULP prices over the bridge. This is irrelevant to me as my car is tuned for 98, and the Datsun gets United Plus ULP as it is 1.20 and it has yet to eat the fuel lines, block up etc lol.

This is a big deal for me as my car is daily driven and I do a lot of kays, not to mention using 50 odd litres every 300km.

yeah i have been running that stuff in the pulsar for well over a year now without any problems at all. changed the fuel filter a few months back and there was no sign of any crap in the filter