Timing?

[chalky]

ive got a fairly standard 32,,

bov,fmic,full 3inch exhaust, boosted to 10psi, rb25 turbo, pod, plugs gapped to 0.8mm etc.

would there be any beinfet or advancing or retarding the timing or should i just leave it?

[mad082]

advancing the timing may have some benefit. if you advance the timing you will pick up power, however you don't want it to be pinging as that will lead to all sorts of trouble. i would start by checking the timing and making sure it is at least where it should be (isn't retarded below stock)

retarding the timing will give you no gain in performance at all. it will decrease performance.

[BLSTIC]

I would hardly call that almost standard. About the only thing on the outside of the engine you haven't changed is the exhaust manifold... (ok and the airflow meter)

Although it *can* be done with a stopwatch and a good ear for detonation, you probably aren't good enough to do that or you wouldn't have asked, I would take it to a dyno shop and get it done (along with whatever other tuning/expermenting you might need doing). Standard price appears to be $100-120 an hour, and for that you should be able to adjust fuel pressure, ignition timing, and cam timing (if you have adjustable gears) to get it spot on.

[chalky]

i did have the timing advanced a little bit and it seemd that i couldnt boost my turbo over 10psi with the car shuddering at about 4500rpm even when hot!

do u guys have any idea if the timing would effect this or do i have another problem?

[mad082]

I would hardly call that almost standard. About the only thing on the outside of the engine you haven't changed is the exhaust manifold... (ok and the airflow meter)

Although it *can* be done with a stopwatch and a good ear for detonation, you probably aren't good enough to do that or you wouldn't have asked, I would take it to a dyno shop and get it done (along with whatever other tuning/expermenting you might need doing). Standard price appears to be $100-120 an hour, and for that you should be able to adjust fuel pressure, ignition timing, and cam timing (if you have adjustable gears) to get it spot on.

i would. bov isn't a performance mod. plugs are maintainence, pod isn't really much of mod either. so he has an exhaust, fmic and slightly bigger turbo. not exactly crazy mods.

and it isn't hard to adjust the timing safely. or at least put a timing light on it to see if it is at least set to the stock timing.

i did have the timing advanced a little bit and it seemd that i couldnt boost my turbo over 10psi with the car shuddering at about 4500rpm even when hot!

do u guys have any idea if the timing would effect this or do i have another problem?

the issue you are having could be that the car is leaning out or the coilpacks or ignitor aren't performing as well as they should, but i wouldn't put it down to the advanced timing. could also be that you are running the stock ecu and with the bigger turbo at that sort of boost level it isn't liking it too much. generally you can have the timing advanced to a point where it will ping it's arse off and it will still make decent power. does do the engine any good, but it does make you lose power the moment it starts pinging. but the problem only appears as you up the boost which makes me think it's either an issue with the ignition system not coping or a fuel issue. you could stick it on a dyno and get them to do a run and check the AFR's and see how they are to rule out the fuel side of things. to check the ignition side of things if you have a mate with coil packs in good condition then try putting them on and see what it does.

[femno]

I would hardly call that almost standard. About the only thing on the outside of the engine you haven't changed is the exhaust manifold... (ok and the airflow meter)

Although it *can* be done with a stopwatch and a good ear for detonation, you probably aren't good enough to do that or you wouldn't have asked, I would take it to a dyno shop and get it done (along with whatever other tuning/expermenting you might need doing). Standard price appears to be $100-120 an hour, and for that you should be able to adjust fuel pressure, ignition timing, and cam timing (if you have adjustable gears) to get it spot on.

What is the stopwatch for?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

adjusting fuel pressure on a stock car, with a stock ECU with a map that already runs ridiculously rich? ehh..

If you're tight and want some cheap power, go get a SAFC, borrow a mate's wideband and hire a dyno, pull a few runs on 3rd/4th gear and adjust/bend/tweak the A/F..

SAFC only bends the Air Flow Meter signal, but works quite well on a car that has minimal mods..

I had a RB20DET with a remap, and a SAFC to neaten up the A/F, works good for small mods.

[R31Nismoid]

upgraded turbo, more boost, FMIC and no tune?

There is your problem. Silly doing all those mods without a full and proper tune.

Playing with the timing will have dick all effect, the factory ECU is your problem

[BLSTIC]

stopwatch is to measure the performance gain. The ass dyno can easily be confused by lower bottom end torque feeling like a top end gain. A stopwatch makes sure that you are actually improving things.

And adjusting the fuel pressure does not neccessarily mean raising it. Lowering it is classed as an adjustment as well.

[R31Nismoid]

If you can make a stopwatch + driver even near reliable, you should open a shop up mate.

You'd send the dyno operators & drag strips out of business!

[MrStabby]

You'd be better off using something with a accelerometer in it than a stopwatch; ie gtech or iphone + <$20 software.

[chalky]

where is the closet place to st.arnaud victoria that has a dyno tuning shop that will cater my needs? and how much roughly is it to get ur car tuned?

[Mattw_83]

i would. bov isn't a performance mod. plugs are maintainence, pod isn't really much of mod either. so he has an exhaust, fmic and slightly bigger turbo. not exactly crazy mods.

and it isn't hard to adjust the timing safely. or at least put a timing light on it to see if it is at least set to the stock timing.

the issue you are having could be that the car is leaning out or the coilpacks or ignitor aren't performing as well as they should, but i wouldn't put it down to the advanced timing. could also be that you are running the stock ecu and with the bigger turbo at that sort of boost level it isn't liking it too much. generally you can have the timing advanced to a point where it will ping it's arse off and it will still make decent power. does do the engine any good, but it does make you lose power the moment it starts pinging. but the problem only appears as you up the boost which makes me think it's either an issue with the ignition system not coping or a fuel issue. you could stick it on a dyno and get them to do a run and check the AFR's and see how they are to rule out the fuel side of things. to check the ignition side of things if you have a mate with coil packs in good condition then try putting them on and see what it does.

Sorry to jump in. i just read the above... So coilpacks that may not necessarily be causing any major stutters or missing, could still contribute significantly to detonation????

my 33 hates any increase in timing (pings its head of with minimal boost on stock turbo). Pulled timing back and ran 15 psi down it and no ping.... Doesnt miss or run lean though.... its got me f**ked...

[paulr33]

the issue with advancing the timing is, the way you are doing it, it affects the whole tune

your engine can deal with more timing when its coming on boost and off boost

and this is typically where good gains can be had, but once its on full load, it cant take too much more

so if you backdial the cas to advance the timing it will shift the entire map, which means detonation city on max load

so you need either

1) a remap of your current tune

2) a copgyback device to advance the timing in certain areas

3) a standalone to tune as you like

with the right experience and skill and time you can make the car drive quiet differently

i was able to dial in +12 deg ignition timing in some areas on my map with my powerfc and some on-road tuning

[Mattw_83]

the issue with advancing the timing is, the way you are doing it, it affects the whole tune

your engine can deal with more timing when its coming on boost and off boost

and this is typically where good gains can be had, but once its on full load, it cant take too much more

so if you backdial the cas to advance the timing it will shift the entire map, which means detonation city on max load

so you need either

1) a remap of your current tune

2) a copgyback device to advance the timing in certain areas

3) a standalone to tune as you like

with the right experience and skill and time you can make the car drive quiet differently

i was able to dial in +12 deg ignition timing in some areas on my map with my powerfc and some on-road tuning

sorry mate i wasnt clear. Ive left this in the hands of tuners with whom i closely watched the process. Cars now got z32 ecu NISTUNE etc etc. The end result wasnt exactly what id expected.

200 rwkw on 14+ psi no ping on a 30 deg (with fmic, exhaust, filter etc) day with timing retarded. Apparently barely even standard. Id had that figure running 12psi, and generally much more responsive too, but under full load yeah it was pinging. Ive seen others do much better. its disappointing.. There must be an actual reason why without fobbing it off saying 'its a dead motor'... Coils and spark maybe. Made 160kw with no mods at all which was pretty healthy....

[BLSTIC]

Easy to make a stopwatch reliable (maybe not accurate, but repeatable, which is all you are after for comparison), just practise.

The easiest way to make the car repeatable is to not time the launch. Ie go from idle to redline in second gear, but only time from 2000-6500 (assuming a 7000rpm redline). That way you don't have the effect of launching, and you know you are at full throttle the entire time (because there is no guessing as to the exact time in the run the throtte was floored and then lifted again).

You are also highly unikely to feel a gain in the 0.1 second region, which a stopwatch will reliably show.

[JonnoHR31]

200 rwkw on 14+ psi no ping on a 30 deg (with fmic, exhaust, filter etc) day with timing retarded. Apparently barely even standard. Id had that figure running 12psi, and generally much more responsive too, but under full load yeah it was pinging. Ive seen others do much better. its disappointing.. There must be an actual reason why without fobbing it off saying 'its a dead motor'... Coils and spark maybe. Made 160kw with no mods at all which was pretty healthy....

200rwkw is healthy for a standard turbo 25, usually anymore than that is just from happy dynos

[rb30_22]

if your motor is stock n u got stock boost level its better to leave timing to standard specs, its only worth altering timing on higher boost levels

[peter21]

i got a stock turbo aswell would that handle power?