Rb26 Oil Supply Issues

[GTS-t VSPEC]

fair enough...

thanks for that info...im just trying to see if there is a way around not having to take the motor out, but its not looking to good atm.

Simple, don't take it to the track. In daily street driving the engine will last pretty well, but trackwork will kill it quick.

[R32 Driver]

Baffled sump extension generally means engine out unless you really know what you're doing and have little monkey hands.

Oil pump is usually an engine out job too as the sump has to come off.

Another thing is, you talk of leaving the engine bone stock minus the oil pump, what oil pump are you looking at putting in? an upgraded/uprated aftermarket oil pump is going to mean you will also have to pull the head off to put some restrictors in.

OR

Run a catch can and an extra litre of oil and start collecting all the bits you will need for the rebuild

Upgrade to "better oil pump". This mod will improve oil delivery to the moving parts than present pump is capable (of). As I read it in the threads, oil problems are from poor gravity return to sump via standard oil return paths from rocker/cam dept., therefore more efficient pump is just going to accentuate existing oil return problem. (pump more up whilst allowing standard amount to return to sump)

No doubt you are aware of this but.

My 2c

GW

PS: I have sump baffle plate (Nismo from memory) & oil restrictor in head. Not tracking my beast, just a little peace of mind.

What they said! an aftermarket pump will only increase the amount of oil going to the head

problem is going down not up!

Happens on all 26s not just early 32 GTRs with the short crank collar

[*D-Joker*]

Simple, don't take it to the track. In daily street driving the engine will last pretty well, but trackwork will kill it quick.

yer I see your point... but is kind of hard not to take it to the track if that is what I bought it for.

[*D-Joker*]

Upgrade to "better oil pump". This mod will improve oil delivery to the moving parts than present pump is capable (of). As I read it in the threads, oil problems are from poor gravity return to sump via standard oil return paths from rocker/cam dept., therefore more efficient pump is just going to accentuate existing oil return problem. (pump more up whilst allowing standard amount to return to sump)

No doubt you are aware of this but.

My 2c

GW

PS: I have sump baffle plate (Nismo from memory) & oil restrictor in head. Not tracking my beast, just a little peace of mind.

yer I am aware of that, but cant hurt to inforce the point hahaha.

I am going to try and make a oil return system... im pretty sure I can get the oil back into the sump fast enough, but the only problem is that im not sure if even though the oil is back in the sump, if when cornering the problem will still occur

[*D-Joker*]

Baffled sump extension generally means engine out unless you really know what you're doing and have little monkey hands.

Oil pump is usually an engine out job too as the sump has to come off.

Another thing is, you talk of leaving the engine bone stock minus the oil pump, what oil pump are you looking at putting in? an upgraded/uprated aftermarket oil pump is going to mean you will also have to pull the head off to put some restrictors in.

OR

Run a catch can and an extra litre of oil and start collecting all the bits you will need for the rebuild

ok well i didnt know you need to pull the engine apart to change the oil pump... im not to familiar with the rb motors, i am more familiar with old holden motors, but totally different kettle of fish.

im thinking of either the nismo pump, or maybe something better...im not sure because i know that i will be revving it hard, and it will more than likely see the limiter a few times... will the nismo cop the punishment?

but im gonna stick to the second option hahaha ... i want it stock to begin with, but more than likely i will build it with some more balls... when I get the time to build it.

[*D-Joker*]

What they said! an aftermarket pump will only increase the amount of oil going to the head

problem is going down not up!

Happens on all 26s not just early 32 GTRs with the short crank collar

yer I am aware that the pump just feeds it up... and the oil doesnt get back down fast enough... but I am only changing the pump because of how hard the motor will be revving, cause i dont want it breaking on me in a hurry.

as i said... im going to attempt to make an oil return system, whether it be gravity feed or pumped im not sure yet... but if it works I will post it up for all to see, key word being *if*

[heller44]

Have to pull motor to fit a new pump.

Have to pull motor to remove sump.

Slight overfill, and save the money for when it lets go, then either rebuild it or have another ready to drop in.

Adding another head return pipe is a topic under discussion, wether it actually does anything productive or not.

Edited April 8, 2010 by heller44

[bubba]

ok well i didnt know you need to pull the engine apart to change the oil pump... im not to familiar with the rb motors, i am more familiar with old holden motors, but totally different kettle of fish.

im thinking of either the nismo pump, or maybe something better...im not sure because i know that i will be revving it hard, and it will more than likely see the limiter a few times... will the nismo cop the punishment?

but im gonna stick to the second option hahaha ... i want it stock to begin with, but more than likely i will build it with some more balls... when I get the time to build it.

Completely different kettle of fish.

I'll give you a quick run down on how I am setting mine up, bear in mind my setup isn't a 26.. it's a 25/30 with hydraulic lifters and small cams, rev limit will be somewhere between 7500-8000rpm depending on if it's still making power.

RB25DE (R32) head, stock cams/springs/valves/lifters

RB30E block

Wiseco Forged pistons

Spool rods

N1 oil pump

RB20 water pump

ATI 1000hp balancer

6boost manifold

GT3582R

Turbosmart 50mm Progate

ASR gated & baffled sump 7L capacity

1.5mm restrictors in block (hydraulic lifters so not going smaller)

Enlarge standard oil returns by 2mm each

Vent from back of head to catch can

Cam breather vents to catch can

Sump vent to catch can

Mazda oil cooler with integral thermostat

After many hours of research and trolling through bullshit, I figure the last 7 items should take care of any oil control issues and keep everything well in check.

Another thing to consider is that my car is 2WD and will not see the same lateral loads a GTR will.

Essentially, you can break down the oil control issues into two main areas:

- Starvation due to too much oil in the head with not enough return flow

- Starvation due to surge

[bubba]

Adding another head return pipe is a topic under discussion, wether it actually does anything productive or not.

The conclusion I have reached about that is that it is actually a vent for gasses, not a drain. It's to allow the gasses that are pressurising in the crankcase an alternate route instead of the gasses fighting the oil flow up the factory returns.

So providing an alternate path for the gasses, enlarging the factory returns and restricting the feed to the head slightly, seems the way to go.

[heller44]

Sort-of my conclusion as well, but still not worth bothering about unless you are going the whole hog and pulling the motor, and while it is out doing a full build..

[bubba]

Sort-of my conclusion as well, but still not worth bothering about unless you are going the whole hog and pulling the motor, and while it is out doing a full build..

Exactly, my head is already drilled/tapped for it so I will be plumbing it up.

Another way to achieve the same thing is to just vent the sump (from above the oil on the drivers side I believe) to a catch can and run the cam breathers to the catch can aswell.

But as you say, these are only thing to do when building the engine. As we stated earlier, in the meantime the OP should just run an extra litre of oil and see how long it holds together

An oil cooler will help prolong the engine life if beating up on it on the track but you're still going to have surge issues that the extra litre of oil should help curtail, not perfect but better than nothing.

[gazza750]

yer I am aware that the pump just feeds it up... and the oil doesnt get back down fast enough... but I am only changing the pump because of how hard the motor will be revving, cause i dont want it breaking on me in a hurry.

as i said... im going to attempt to make an oil return system, whether it be gravity feed or pumped im not sure yet... but if it works I will post it up for all to see, key word being *if*

Imports 101 sell an oil return system runs from welsh plug @ rear of head down into sump

[bubba]

Imports 101 sell an oil return system runs from welsh plug @ rear of head down into sump

That's the head vent heller and I were talking about, it's not exactly an "oil return" and it really needs the head pulled off to be installed.

[djr81]

The RB26 already has a means of scavenging the blowby gasses that accumulate in the head/block. It is the pipe & PCV (valve) that runs from that back of the inlet cam cover to the inlet manifold. Opens under vacuum (ie closed throttle) & sucks the stuff out into the motor & hence out the exhaust.

On the other side a line runs to the suction side of the turbs (from memory). It is this one that sludges up your intercooler & has oil dripping out your BOV's.

Alot of people block both up when fitting a catch can - not the way to do it at all.

For what it is worth (not much) I have run an R32 R at Wanneroo & elsewhere for some 5+ years. On R comps. Originally an 89 & latterly a more recent model. Other than filling the thing up with 5 litres of oil I never had a problem with the 89 version. For the 94 I had fitted a sump baffle & a Nismo oil/air seperator. The only problem I had with that was caused by a stuffed PCV.

In short it is not the problem alot of people make it out to be.

As for failed oil pumps I strongly suspect alot of them can be traced to stuffed harmonic balancers.....Yes the 92 & on models have a better oil pump drive which is absolutely worth doing if you are up to your elbows in RB26 entrails. Yes the oil restrictors in the heads are worth doing if the head is off. But neither are mandatory.

[bubba]

As for failed oil pumps I strongly suspect alot of them can be traced to stuffed harmonic balancers.....Yes the 92 & on models have a better oil pump drive which is absolutely worth doing if you are up to your elbows in RB26 entrails. Yes the oil restrictors in the heads are worth doing if the head is off. But neither are mandatory.

+1

There's no point spending bulk dollars on a nice strong rebuild and then putting the +20yo harmonic balancer back on.