Adjustable Spoiler

[Brandon]

Reminds me of aeroplane's wing.

[handbrake]

Top of the line Aeromotions S2 split wing, awesome stuff. about 8k aus. Some spend almost that on a carbon fibre lip or rear spoiler with no added aerodynamic benefit so probably not insane price for something with this level of functionality. I suspect a few track guys here would be interested in this, it seems to provide noticeable results

[LSX-438]

I am looking at the aeromotions stuf closely atm. I need a second or two extra for next year...

[GGTTRR]

I am looking at the aeromotions stuf closely atm. I need a second or two extra for next year...

Why is that?

[dazmo]

Never seen a design like that used on any form of race car or in any form of motorsport so it could be a bit of a gimmick that could just be the sceptic in me but i think that there would be better ways of getting and advantage with your 8K.

[LSX-438]

Why is that?

gee i wonder....

[Juan]

i think this was used in japan in the group A or C days.

theres a small article in the TARMAC mag about this.

[33fan]

lol

[TheTunersGroup]

I smiled when I saw this thread, as we have been talking to Aeromotions about distributing their products in Australia and New Zealand for a number of months.

Our arrangements with them were finalised this week, so now that it's official, we can announce our appointment as the exclusive distributor for Aeromotions in Australia and New Zealand

Full info here ...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ae...ng-t294346.html

- The Tuners Group

[TheTunersGroup]

Never seen a design like that used on any form of race car or in any form of motorsport so it could be a bit of a gimmick that could just be the sceptic in me

Hi dazmo,

Active aero has been used in a number of forms of motorsport over the years.

The active split wing was pioneered by Nissan on the R381 (shown above) which won the 1968 Japanese Grand Prix. This innovative weight transfer mechanism quickly proved its value. As the car turns, the wing splits to provide more downforce on the inside wheel.

More info on the R381 here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_R381

Active aero was also used with great success on the Chaparral 2E (shown above)

More info on the Chaparral 2E here ... http://www.chaparralcars.com/2e.php

So active aero is definitely not a gimmick, and is proven to work in lowering lap times.

Testing at Thunderhiill Raceway of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing on an E36 BMW produced the following lap time results:

- Without Aeromotions Wing: 2 minutes 10.1 seconds

- With Aeromotions Static Wing: 2 minutes 9.2 seconds

- With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing: 2 Minutes 8.4 seconds

- With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence: 2 minutes 7.7 seconds.

Lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than with a static wing, and 2.4 seconds faster than without an Aeromotions wing.

You can find a video here showing the testing and lap time data from the Aeromotions test at Thunderhill ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html

could just be the sceptic in me but i think that there would be better ways of getting and advantage with your 8K.

As handbrake wrote above ...

"Some spend almost that on a carbon fibre lip or rear spoiler with no added aerodynamic benefit so probably not insane price for something with this level of functionality. I suspect a few track guys here would be interested in this, it seems to provide noticeable results".

Additionally the version shown on the white R35 in the video is the top of the range Aeromotions S2 Wing (shown above), and is priced accordingly. Lower priced models are also available from Automotions of course.

On the top of the range S2 Dynamic Wing, every component was selected to minimize weight and drag. It uses teardrop shaped uprights from an airplane, Formula 1 grade carbon fiber, titanium internals, internal actuators, titanium hardware, and extreme heat sinking.

The S2 is rated for speeds of 200 miles per hour plus / 321 km per hour plus.

There is also a single element version called the R2 (shown above), which is available in a static version which sells in the US for US$1699 (and can be upgraded to full dynamic mode later on), and the single element R2 wing is also available in 2 dynamic versions. Pricing on the dynamic versions of the single element R2 Dynamic Wing in the US starts at US$3249.

- The Tuners Group

[dazmo]

Fair enough. I am still a sceptic though as I think if it was such an advantage it would have been more widely used in motorsport. Many developments have been tried and tested in motorsport and most of them that have any real merrit are generaly widely adopted across many motorsport catagories at least untill they are banned. Why is it that this technoligy does not seem to have popped up in F1 or FAI gt1/Lemans style cars ? as these would probably be 2 of the catagories with the most advanced aero tech. It may also be the sceptic in me but it is extremely easy for test results to manipulated to show a desired result especially when there is no real technical data other than a lap time no actual drag coeffcient numbers or measured downforce numbers etc if this was truly such an innovation it surely would have to have been tested and designed in a wind tunnel and therefore there would be some more technical info available.

Edited October 31, 2009 by dazmo

[TheTunersGroup]

Fair enough. I am still a sceptic though as I think if it was such an advantage it would have been more widely used in motorsport. Many developments have been tried and tested in motorsport and most of them that have any real merrit are generaly widely adopted across many motorsport catagories at least untill they are banned. Why is it that this technoligy does not seem to have popped up in F1 or FAI gt1/Lemans style cars ?

Active aero is well known, and documented by examples like Nissan who used split wing active aero to win the 1968 Japanese Grand Prix.

Active aero is currently banned in Formula One.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleD...ArticleID=64211 reads ...

Moveable aerodynamic aids are banned in formula one and, indeed, most forms of motorsport. Race car designers would love them: instead of having to make wings and spoilers that have to combine high downforce and moderate drag, they could come up with something that doesn't hinder speed on straights but then deploys in corners to maximise grip.

Formula One is currently looking at allowing active Aero again.

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:lXG2E...mp;client=opera reads ...

The World Motor Sport Council met in Paris on 27 June, 2007. The following decisions were taken:

FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

The WMSC received a report on the status of current discussions* on the FIA Formula One World Championship from 2011. Proposals include: ...

Drag

To allow moving aerodynamic devices, which will reduce drag by over 50% and allow a 40% reduction in the power required to maintain current speeds.

The Formula One 2011 Chassis Regulations Framework - Proposed Regulations for the 2011 Formula One season which you can find here http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/177...s_Framework.pdf reads ...

The variation will be primarily achieved by the use of active wings that reduce downforce generation along the straights and maximise it in slow corners ...

Front and rear wings will be constrained in shape, but may be actively controlled ...

The rear wing will be the main mechanism by which adaptive drag will be achieved, while the relatively small (compared to today) front wing is to serve as a trim to achieve balance ... Front and rear wings maybe electronically controlled within set limits defined from time to time by the FIA. This is to allow much reduced drag along the straights to improve fuel efficiency and yet retain the downforce required around corners, under braking and acceleration so as to retain overall lap times.

It may also be the sceptic in me but it is extremely easy for test results to manipulated to show a desired result especially when there is no real technical data other than a lap time no actual drag coeffcient numbers or measured downforce numbers etc if this was truly such an innovation it surely would have to have been tested and designed in a wind tunnel and therefore there would be some more technical info available.

As it says here ... http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html ...

From the MIT Wind Tunnel To The Racetrack

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing™ was born in the wind tunnel at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), the world's premier private research and engineering university.

Countless hours of refinement – through Computational Fluid Dynamic modeling (CFD) – led to its signature high downforce, low drag design.

MIT is a participating institution in the National Space Grant College and Fellowship Program, which is administered by NASA.

The reputation and engineering expertise at MIT is so advanced that a large percentage of research carried out at MIT is funded by NASA, the US Department of Defence, the US Department of Energy, and the US National Science Foundation.

There is also an article on The Motor Report site about the development of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing... http://www.themotorreport.com.au/6922/aero...e-rear-spoiler/

The Motor Report's article reads ...

The original design, conceived in MIT’s wind tunnel, used a clay model on a pendulum with the wing affixed. The mounting point between the pendulum and model was set so the model would not lean if left to its own devices. When the tunnel’s turbine was turned on and air flowed over the model, the wing adjusted itself and levelled the car out.

The settings and control logic developed in this wind tunnel, were then applied to a full-scale test car ...

Despite all the hard parkers you see cruising your local entertainment district on a Friday night, a rear wing is actually useful for more than just a place to rest your cup of Coke if you’re driving your modified car at the track, not just to McDonald’s. This wing appears to be the next step in aerodynamics for motorsport enthusiasts.

- The Tuners Group

[LSX-438]

Active aero seems to make a lot of sense to me. What is the situation with prices and local availability? PM me something on the active wing (not the split one, just the one piece item please).

cheers

[dazmo]

That is all well and good and there is no doubt a huge benifit to be had with active aero in regards to being able to reduce drag increase fuel effiency and top speed on the straights while being able to maintain downforce for cornering. That would go without saying and is a fairly simple concept to understand. And this is the type of active aero that all the litriture above seems to refer to.

What I am scepticle on is the split wing design. I personally dont believe that is well developed or proven technoligy. The only example of the split wing technoligy that you seem to have provided is the nissan R381 and if this split wing was so great how come it has not popped up on many other cars ? (possibly it as been banned throughout many catagories). The single element version I can definatly see the merit in but I will still take a bit of convincing on the splt wing design. Maybe LSX-438 can give everyone some feedback if he decides to purchase one as I would like to hear some indipendant feedback.

[LSX-438]

reports from guys who have used the split wing seem to be marginal over the non-split version. i guess some guys will pay a lot even for just a few tenths.

[TheTunersGroup]

reports from guys who have used the split wing seem to be marginal over the non-split version. i guess some guys will pay a lot even for just a few tenths.

Hi LSX-438,

The data from the Thunderhill test mentioned above produced the following lap times (the wing used in this test was the split wing, running in 3 different configurations):

- Without Aeromotions Wing: 2 minutes 10.1 seconds

- With Aeromotions Static Wing: 2 minutes 9.2 seconds

- With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing : 2 Minutes 8.4 seconds

- With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence): 2 minutes 7.7 seconds.

So lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing running in dynamic mode were 0.8 seconds a lap faster than the wing running in Static mode.

And lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence were 0.7 seconds a lap faster than the wing running in in dynamic mode with no centrefence.

What I found really interesting there is that the simple addition of the centre fence cut 0.7 seconds off the lap time compared to running the split wing in dynamic mode with no centrefence. The centre fence is the vertical plate that runs between the centre of the two split elements - see photo above.

The reason for that is that a centre fence isolates the airflow over each half of the split wing, and can have a huge effect on increasing aero efficiency and cleaning up aero flow. That then lets each half of the split wing to work more efficiently than without the centre fence.

That concept is the same reason that the Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A380 run upturned wingtips on the ends of their wings. This effect was also mentioned in the Richard Hammond show on SBS a few weeks back about the development of the A380.

Above is a photo of the wing tips from an Airbus A380.

There is a diagram here of the effect on airflow ...

There is an article on Wikipedia about that effect here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device

It reads ...

Wingtip devices are usually intended to improve the efficiency of fixed-wing aircraft. There are several types of wingtip devices, and though they function in different manners, the intended effect is always to reduce the aircraft's drag by altering the airflow near the wingtips. Wingtip devices can also improve aircraft handling characteristics and enhance safety for following aircraft. Such devices increase the effective aspect ratio of a wing without materially increasing the wingspan. An extension of span would lower lift-induced drag, but would increase parasitic drag and would require boosting the strength and weight of the wing. At some point, there is no net benefit from further increased span. There may also be operational considerations that limit the allowable wingspan (e.g., available width at airport gates).

Wingtip devices increase the lift generated at the wingtip (by smoothing the airflow across the upper wing near the tip) and reduce the lift-induced drag caused by wingtip vortices, improving lift-to-drag ratio. This increases fuel efficiency, in powered aircraft, and it increases cross-country speed in gliders, in both cases increasing range. U.S. Air Force studies indicate that a given improvement in fuel efficiency correlates directly with the causal increase in L/D ratio.

Quite a few other planes run upturned wingtips for the same reason ...

I'll check with Aeromotions to see if they have data available about the difference in performance between the single element Dynamic Wing and the split element Dynamic Wing. Given that the simple addition of a centrefence on the split wing cut 0.7 seconds from the lap time though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a very significant difference in lap times between the split element wing and single element wing.

- The Tuners Group

[TheTunersGroup]

That is all well and good and there is no doubt a huge benifit to be had with active aero in regards to being able to reduce drag increase fuel effiency and top speed on the straights while being able to maintain downforce for cornering. That would go without saying and is a fairly simple concept to understand. And this is the type of active aero that all the litriture above seems to refer to.

What I am scepticle on is the split wing design. I personally dont believe that is well developed or proven technoligy. The only example of the split wing technoligy that you seem to have provided is the nissan R381 and if this split wing was so great how come it has not popped up on many other cars ? (possibly it as been banned throughout many catagories). The single element version I can definatly see the merit in but I will still take a bit of convincing on the splt wing design.

Hi Dazmo,

I'm more than happy to help in any way I can with data, info etc.

The short answer to your question of "if this split wing was so great how come it has not popped up on many other cars ? (possibly it as been banned throughout many catagories)" is exactly because active aero has been banned in many racing categories.

As I wrote above ...

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleD...ArticleID=64211 reads ...

Moveable aerodynamic aids are banned in formula one and, indeed, most forms of motorsport. Race car designers would love them: instead of having to make wings and spoilers that have to combine high downforce and moderate drag, they could come up with something that doesn't hinder speed on straights but then deploys in corners to maximise grip.

When you have a ban on active aero (particularly in categories like Formula One), teams do not spend money on developing such technology.

One of the driving forces in the more recent developments in active aero has been time attack categories, many of which do not ban active aero.

Allowing active aero in those categories has led to development, and now that Formula One is looking to lift the ban on active aero. money will be spent again in research by F1 teams on active aero.

Additionally, http://www.f1technical.net/articles/4577 reads ...

The FIA (Federation Internationale de l’Automobile) has proposed a set of new rules for the 2008 FIA Formula 1 season....

Part of the changes proposed involves major dimensional changes and the introduction of split rear wings ...

The following image shows two views of the model being used for the purpose of this analysis.

So as shown above, the concept of splitting the rear aero into two independent surfaces is something that is well know to F1 also.

Aeromotions wings are also being used in US time attack events including the AMS/NOS Energy Drink EVO X.

http://aeromotions.com/2009/07/ams-evo-claims-track-record/ reads ...

The AMS/NOS Energy Drink EVO X took the number one position in grid. In the first round, AMS charged around the bank clearly on a mission to lay down a fast lap. As it rounded the final bend, Mark Daddio sailed across the finish with a time of 1:01.296 – breaking the track record for a lap in competition at the Nashville Super Speedway by nearly 2.5 seconds!

Aeromotions wings are also being used on a number of R35's in the US, including the Budez R35, and the Cannonball GT-R which won the One Lap Of America ...

http://aeromotions.com/2009/05/cannonball-...lap-of-america/ reads ...

One of the last pre-production R2’s landed in the capable hands of Will Taylor and Steven Ranking, drivers of the Cannonball GTR. Installed on the morning they left for One Lap, the R2 helped the Cannonball GTR break the 5-year-old wet skidpad record, pulling an astonishing .953 G’s.

Over the ensuing week, Taylor and Rankins used the in-cabin remote control to quickly and effectively dial in the right amount of down force for each new track in the series.

“While other teams spent twenty minutes every time they wanted to adjust their aero setups for a given track, we were able to optimize our Aeromotions wing in twenty seconds and ended up with the perfect tune.” – Will Taylor.

At Daytona, Taylor ran a blistering 2:00.34 on the 24hrs track configuration. It’s impressive to see a street legal GT-R, running street tires, turn in times equivolant to the GT1 cars of ‘96. His top speed of the morning session was 173.5mph. After tweaking the wing a little more, Taylor hit 177mph in the afternoon.

You can view a photo gallery of various cars running Aeromotions wing here ...

http://aeromotions.com/gallery/photos/

What I am scepticle on is the split wing design. I personally dont believe that is well developed or proven technoligy.

With the greatest respect, apart from the various examples above of active rear wings and split rear wings in various forms of motorsport as far back as the 1960's, and the fact that Nissan won the Japanese Grand Prix with an active split rear wing, the aerodynamics facility at MIT is one of the most respected aero research and development facilities in the world.

As detailed above ...

--------

"The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing™ was born in the wind tunnel at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), the world's premier private research and engineering university.

Countless hours of refinement – through Computational Fluid Dynamic modeling (CFD) – led to its signature high downforce, low drag design.

MIT is a participating institution in the National Space Grant College and Fellowship Program, which is administered by NASA.

The reputation and engineering expertise at MIT is so advanced that a large percentage of research carried out at MIT is funded by NASA, the US Department of Defence, the US Department of Energy, and the US National Science Foundation."

--------

Quite simply, products only make it out of the MIT wind tunnel and onto the market when they have been extremely well developed, and extremely well tested.

Likewise, Nissan would not have run split wing technology on the R381 (shown above) which won the 1968 Japanese Grand Prix unless they were convinced that the concept was correct and proven, and you can be very sure that a company like Nissan would not have run split wing technology on their car unless they had proven the value of the split wing concept to themselves. The fact that the car then won the 1968 Japanese Grand Prix speaks for itself.

So split wing technology has a history going right back to the 1960's.

DETAILED TEST DATA

There are three pages on the Aeromotions site with detailed data from the Thunderhill test of the split wing ...

The first is the video showing the data in combination with in-car video ...

http://aeromotions.com/wp-content/themes/A...vids/th_08.html

The second is a summary of the data and info about the car, driver and testing methodology ...

http://aeromotions.com/the-data/

The third is a detailed turn by turn data analysis here, which includes plots turn by turn of the lateral G-force, acceleration and braking G-force, velocity, and time difference ...

http://aeromotions.com/the-data/thunderhill-turn-by-turn/

I will also ask Aeromotions for additional info on the split wing concept for you.

- The Tuners Group

[LSX-438]

Very interesting! thanks for posting up all that info. The Thunderhill testing was a BMW E36 yeah? impressive results but i reckon the OEM aero on that car is not as good as the OEM R35 setup. Still, very impressive and lots to take in! How much would i page for a GUARANTEED 0.7s improvement? ha ha. Answer: friggin lots.

[TheTunersGroup]

Active aero seems to make a lot of sense to me. What is the situation with prices and local availability? PM me something on the active wing (not the split one, just the one piece item please).

cheers

Hi Duncan,

Australian pricing is being finalised this week. As it says in the product announcement here ... http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ae...ng-t294346.html ...

"Pricing is being finalised and will announced on our website in the next few days. As always, our Australian pricing will be as close as possible to prices in the US where Aeromotions is based."

PM's are turned off on the forum as it is impossible for us to keep track of which enquiries have been replied to via PM, so if you'd like to drop us an email to the email address listed on our contact us page here, I can send through the Aussie pricing to you as soon as it is finalised ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/Contact_Us/

- The Tuners Group

[TheTunersGroup]

Maybe LSX-438 can give everyone some feedback if he decides to purchase one as I would like to hear some indipendant feedback.

Hi dazmo,

We have added a number of quotes from drivers who have used the Aeromotions wings to our main Aeromotions page today.

Some of the comments include:

CANNONBALL R35 GT-R (WINNER OF ONE LAP OF AMERICA)

“While other teams spent twenty minutes every time they wanted to adjust their aero setups for a given track, we were able to optimize our Aeromotions wing in twenty seconds and ended up with the perfect tune.” – Will Taylor.

BUDEZ R35

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?sh...mp;#entry471848 reads ...

Go active all the way ...

Aeromotions has a couple versions available now so it's not cost prohibitive at all.

In general the tracks we have been on are around 2 minute laps and the wing in an active mode shaves 1.5 to 2 seconds off each lap ...

AMS Evo, Crawford, Fontana Nissan all run a variant of Aeromotions in Red Line.

There just isn't a static angle wing that can compare to something active.

FORGED PERFORMANCE R35

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?sh...st&p=472311 reads ...

My GT-R was transformed with the wing. I dropped 1.5 seconds on a 1:20 course at Roebling Road, and the difference in feel is immediately noticable.

I could transition to full power earlier at corner exit, and the high speed oversteer I had been fighting was completely gone.

I am running the static wing for now. I imagine the active will add another few tenths of a second at least.

This wing is one of the few, that has some serious science and research behind it.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=34269 reads ...

What a weekend! I decided to take the Forged GT-R to Virginia International Raceway for the final NASA race event of the year. I was looking forward to attempting to break the previous TT-U track record of 2:03 on the Full Course. Anything under 2:10 at VIR is flying pretty good.

Normally, we are required to compete with the Toyo R888's, but for this event the tire choice was completely open. So I decided to try our throughly used and abused 8 month old Hoosier A6's for this event.

On Saturday's Time Trial, I finished with a 2:01.4 lap time which easily broke the previous track record.

And on Sunday I was able to muster up a bit more courage through the fast essess, South Bend, and along with some later braking was able to record a 2:00.002 (AMB Transporder) fast lap time in my still very streetable GT-R.

At the risk of sounding really sentimental, hitting the symbolic 2:00 flat mark at VIR is extremely rewarding to me personally. I am still feeling the rush, nearly 3 days after the event!

You can find more comments from very satisfied users here ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html

- The Tuners Group