Moral Dillemma Regarding My Gtr

[GTR-N1]

i was watching the monitor on the putty cruise... and on the short bursts out of the corners... where normally you would flatten it .. the most he used that day, was 30%

cheers

Linton

Lucky he didn't open it up behind me & cowboy me on the putty; otherwise he would have hit the Roo!

[bozodos]

If there's one thing I've learnt in owning cars its the cycle of cheap, reliable, modified, of which a second hand car can only be two of the three terms.

I'm glad you've decided to mod your own car, it's a real nightmare trying to work out what previous owners have done (and not always good things either as I've found)

[spec-V]

i strongly suggest you talk to your tuner before buying and installing a wolf ECU............Autronic are the favoured ECU of tuners i am invoved with. Peak horsepower is also confusing. You want it to make good power early so a solid torque curve is what you are really after in a street car. Keep the turbos small and push around a bar of boost through it. It will make 400hp but will make it from 3200rpm onwards withought straining the engine therefore keeping it reliable. anything over that power becomes wasted on the street. Also limit your rpm to 7500. There is no use in turning a standard engine with std cams, springs and small turbos any harder. This just hurts the engine.

I understand exactly where you are coming from, I am only looking at doing stage one mods at this stage, who knows where the build will go in 2 years time. I understand what your saying. I am aware that some -7's as apposed to a pair of -5s are going to be quicker across the quarter (and probly better suited to the street) But I am a firm beleiver in just giving it that extra little bit.. I'm gonna have to rely on peoples experiences with the -5's in regards to lag etc etc.. And pushing -7's over 400 isn't gonna work out too well.

Keeping reliability is key. So yeah obviously I'm not going to go strap a t51 to it wind in 2 bar and say YEAH LETS CHASE TOP HP!!! I have been fairly impressed at what a standard engine (unopened) can do with just bolts ons etc etc.. No need I'd want to push it harder, otherwise I'd go an all out build... But alas, didn't win the lotto this week...

400-450HP at the wheels: -5 turbos, ecu, and fuel set up + obviously full exhaust etc. No problems at all. You are on the right track.

If you want to build the motor down the track like I will, he -5s will then also be able to make much more power also.

I already have a HKS full system on it (sounds f**ken sexual!!) And yeah I had a quick read through your thread. Expect a pm with many a question soon Bakes!!

what i mean is that on the dyno, being tuned, it was 400hp at wide open throttle... absolutly flat out..

but in the real world... on a nice twisty bit of black top.. in a real driving situation... you only need 60% of throttle to enjoy it... there is another 40% of throttle to be opened... but its not neccessary, in the real world, it doesnt need the 400hp that it has.. the speed at which it can accelerate at 60% throttle usage is almost is ridiculous, and its barely working, hardly raising a sweat.... it must really pull at 100%..

i was watching the monitor on the putty cruise... and on the short bursts out of the corners... where normally you would flatten it .. the most he used that day, was 30% and it was hauling.. 30%!!!!!... thats 70% of throttle left to play with!!!!.. its amazing knowing the potential this car has.. if you were to have a really good road and open it right up.

i say power fc FTW... but im biased towards it.. get that first, get it tuned and run a bit more boost to keep you happy until you get 2530's or -5s

cheers

Linton

It all comes down to application.. And the driver... I am aware of how fun 400+hp is to play with on the street (my VY SS ute had just on 400hp - and was fun as all f**k, different kettle of fish yes.. but still can come unstuck quickly!)

Also linton, I don't really see the point in going and getting 2 tunes if i'm going to upgrade... I'd rather save like a bitch, stop buying the missus expensive dinners out (possibly have no sex for many months LOL) and then stockpile parts, weather it be second hand or new whatever, and then do it all in one hit! .. The more I here about the pfc in 26 applications the more I am starting to dislike it.. Based on the whole cost of MAP vs modifying AFM setup...

I guess time will tell..

If there's one thing I've learnt in owning cars its the cycle of cheap, reliable, modified, of which a second hand car can only be two of the three terms.

I'm glad you've decided to mod your own car, it's a real nightmare trying to work out what previous owners have done (and not always good things either as I've found)

Mmmmm... this is true, you gotta take the good with the bad.. And sometimes the bad isn't that bad at all... So far.. TOUCH WOOD!

[R31Nismoid]

Okay i am at a loss here I dont realy understand what has been said.

I want to acheive 400-450hp myself. My current wish list includes -5 turbos, ecu (still tossing between autronic, wolf, and haltech) fuel setup injectors, pump, and a few other little preventave mods.

Any suggestions bakes?

-5's are the WRONG turbo choice for 400-450rwhp.

If that is all you want, you want the Garrett -9's.

They are better in every single way than the -5's for that power range.

[spec-V]

Care to elaborate more mate?

[R31Nismoid]

Read the Forced Induction section - there is more than enough info posted.

-5's will do over 400rwkw. Why put them on if you only wany 300-330rwkw? More lag, same top end.

= no point.

[NZM.031]

It all comes down to application.. And the driver... I am aware of how fun 400+hp is to play with on the street (my VY SS ute had just on 400hp - and was fun as all f**k, different kettle of fish yes.. but still can come unstuck quickly!)

i had a 300rwkw VY SS ute and a near 300rwkw r33 aswell.. and ive had a steer of bakes' R34... i can tell you they are worlds apart in their power delivery and sheer fun factor.. with the GTR coming out on top..

my 150awkw wrx was much much more fun than the ute that had twice its power. i could use every single kilowatt in it and it was barely stressed.. the ute got real scary real quick, and it was not the complete package that a GTR is...

[bozodos]

yep the inherent problem of LS1 powered commo's, shiteloads of power + torque easily, but bloody uncontrollable when giving it stick.

[(OO)SKYLINE(OO)]

^^ Also it being a Ute, no weight on the back = Tail happy.

[NickR33]

nah 10 slabs of VB fixes the weight distribution issue...

[(OO)SKYLINE(OO)]

^^ LOL!

Ah yes, ute and beers...

[bozodos]

haha well the sedans are bad enough!

[some_cs_student]

Read the Forced Induction section - there is more than enough info posted.

-5's will do over 400rwkw. Why put them on if you only wany 300-330rwkw? More lag, same top end.

= no point.

-9's are closer to HKS GTSS turbo's, -5's are often run with 300-330rwkw before the engine gets rebuilt.

-9's make sense unless you want to have more than ~330rwkw power (oh, and you will never get the response of a -9) later...

[Phil 34GTR]

Interesting thread, and I think we all have at some time been through the same dilemma. I too, like you, obtained a stock, Grade 5 GTR in early 2008. I am sure that it still presents today like it did when it rolled off the production line in 99. It is my daily, and is the quintessential driving experience in every respect. In this regard, I would side with all previous posters who have advocated that you should keep what's yours, as it is most probably a reflection of you, through and through, and I would suspect that any "higher performing" replacement would never quite meet your expectations. Better to keep the devil that you know! The dilemma of maintaining it stock Vs exploiting it's obvious, somewhat limitless potential, hit me after only 4 months. Somehow, the stock 265rwhp'ish power (it was never strapped on the Dyno in stock form) was not enough, and like so many who had trodden this well worn rut of a path before me, I wanted that little bit more from this piece Nissan magic. This, together with the UK's GTROC Forum, provides just about every snippet of information on upgrading the RB26 that us budding Internet mechanics would ever need to know. Both Forums are a credit to their users, and the dedicated bunch of administrators and moderators. My hat goes off to all of them, as the transfer of such knowledge in the business world does not come without a cost.

My goal was similar to Bakes'; extract usable 'street' power gains without opening the box, and maintain the life expectancy of the stock internals to within reasonable limits. To understand how to do this, within the realistic constraints of the average persons wallet, the search engine is your flexible friend. For Stage 1, I opted for the usual enhancements (Power FC, EBC, exhaust, and air induction). Nothing out of the ordinary, but with the right tuner, you can re-arrange the vertebrae in your neck for around $5,000. At 1.1bar g boost, the power advanced to 360rwhp. Believe me, the additional 100rwhp from this level of enhancement has to be the best bang for your buck that you could ever attain!

I recently succumbed to the disease known as 'Stage 2'. Here, research via your flexible friend is critical, as the paths through to 400-450rwhp in terms of 'bolt-ons' and 'drop-ins' are virtually limitless. You can spend as little as $500-$4,000, and as much as $12,000+, to effectivley achieve the same level of power gains! Many would argue that some of the additional spend is justified as a means to ensure that the RB26 does not keel over and die on the Dyno, or soon thereafter on the street. Others would consider that winding up the boost a couple of notches and tweeking the air and fuel systems to their absolute limits will attain the same result. As ever, it's a typical risk Vs rewards scenario, which can only be resolved in your own mind after sifting through the many factual, and sometimes anecdotal, opinions and justifications at to why any one route is any better than another. In many ways, this is why the Forum makes such great reading, and provides for an unsurpassed learning environment!

My initial thoughts were that Stage 2 would be the end game, hence, after much research and endless agony, I fathomed that -9's/GTSS turbos were the critical and optimum 'bolt-ons' for this level of power gain. My rationale behind the choice of turbo was to minimise the much vaunted 'boost threashold' level, over which I had an abstract paranoia of exceeding the benchmark set by the stock units. I now know that my paranoia was in vain as, akin to advancing the performance of all rotating machines, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Much is written over the performance of the HKS GTSS blowers, but little exists in the way of documentary evidence in connection with the performance of the -9's. Garretts' on-line information would suggest that they offer the best compromise over the larger -5's, and numerous comparisons of their metrics concludes that they are at least the equivalent, if not identical, to their GTSS counterparts. The problem is, you can't readily obtain them for love nor money. Hence, with time not on my side, the offer of a pair of readily available Tomei ARMS B7660 units for less than the cost of the GTSS blowers did not go amiss. Even less 'factual' information exists on these units as compared to the -9's, but as their paper specs appeared to place them somewhere between the -9's and the -5's I was convinced, paranoia apart, that they would fit the bill. Stage 2 disease then took it's vicious grip, and in went the poncams (to counteract the lag) and the larger AFM's (to provide the 'safe' on-load AFR's). Trust that you will get the gist of this story!

For all I have not yet completed the final tune (long story), the current results, whilst running purely on the wastegates without the added control and extra boost afforded by the EBC, are compelling. The final powertune results will be posted on the RB26 sticky when completed.

I hope my ramblings assist you with your dilemma. How could you obtain as much fun (and acquired knowledge) as I have through buying someone else's cast-off?

Regards

Phil

[spec-V]

You make many a valid point Phil.. Much to ponder over the coming week.

[spec-V]

Call me stupid but I'm going to sell up.

Look out for it for sale in the next couple weeks.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Let the flaming begin!