R35 Gtr Or F360 F1?

[fungoolie]

Buy the 360, in 10 years the GTR will be worth sweet f.uck all and you could buy one for 1/6th of the retail price. The Ferrari will always hold its value compared to the GTR.

I'm not sure where these notions of the relative depreciation of all these cars is coming from. I wish we all had these wonderful crystal balls because I would be using these prophetic powers to assess investment asset prices instead of used car prices! From my experiences it depends totally on what the successors of the particular model are and how much of an improvement they are over the predecessors. And since we really don't know what the manufacturers have in store for us, we really are just guessing as to what resale values will be in the future.

Cases I've observed include:

1. Porsche 911 Turbo's have generally lost about $10-$15 K per annum until the new model is released. Then they incur a $60K hit overnight once the newer improved model becomes available.

2. 1999 VT Clubsports were up around the $55K mark when the VTII with the Gen III was released. Suddenly the $45K SS was faster than the previous week's Clubsport. Owners of the old model wore a $15K loss literally within weeks simply because you wouldn't have the old slower Clubbie when the newer SS was faster and a better overall package. Australian consumers have kicked up a big stink complaining that the Aussie manufactureres have treated them unfairly by "secretly" releasing huge improvements in their model line up without any warning thus burning the uninformed existing owners.

3. Euro companies such as BMW and Mercedes tend to maintain a body shape for a lot longer than say Japanese or Australian manufacturers. Again as per the case of the 911T above, they tend to hold their value better than their counterparts until the new shape is released. Then you better hope you're not holding the baby at that point in time. So the depreciation curve tends to be more disjointed but in the long term you will always end up in the same place.

The 360 not being significantly different looking to the 430, does not yet look dated. However when the 458 is released, I believe it will. And as sure as night follows the day, watch the prices fall significantly. Just as the 355 looks dated next to the 360, the 430/360 will also start to become less desirable next to the new Ferrari. And I'm only talking about styling here, there's a bunch of extra dimensions to consider such as performance, reliability, warranty, parts availability and cost and wear and tear factors that play a role in a vehicles depreciation as well.

As far as the R35 GT-R is concerned, again it totally depends upon what Nissan and anyone else that competes with them has in the pipeline. If the car model is run for 6 years with no successor as Nissan has alluded to, then that will help maintain the 2nd hand prices. (Take a look at what a 2002 Nissan 200SX fetches and you'll see how a car can hold it's value when theres nothing better/newer to replace it). If in 6 years time there is no developmental successor to the R35 and no other manufacturer has caught up with an equivalent competitor for less than $160K I'd hazard that the used values should hold up reasonably well relative to equivalent vehicles.

Generally speaking again, if you can own a vehicle that suffers between 12% and 17% depreciation per annum in the first 5 years of its life you're doing exceptionally well. Most Aussie cars suffer the dreaded 20% pa or halving in value after 3 years. I wouldn't imagine either a new Ferrari or the GT-R would fall into the latter category.

[fungoolie]

I agree on half of what your saying, but your stats are pretty far off. a 911 turbo only loosing 10-15k/year? The minute your drive it off the dealershi[p show room floor its lost $20k right there, over the first year the average 911 turbo has lost $30k, it slows down alittle after that untill the new model is released. but 10k lol your way off mate.

This is not an exact science. I was only trying to illustrate the point of the devaluation process with respect to its relation the model cycle.

[Max_ST-R]

lol you must be living under a rock..... you of all people should know that wholesale don't touch ANY private imports and if they do they give nothing for them. tell the importers who in the mid 90's till about 2002 when the import laws changed absolutely killed it importing prestige and exotic cars from UK and Hong kong. assuming your from sydney, go drive down parra road, even on carsales ect..... better yet i'll just type in PRIVATE IMPORT into carsales and see what come up.... Merceedes cl500's, 500SL and porsche 930's are notorious for being priv imports from hong kong. And the bad thing is there are allot more exotics being advertised who happen to forget to mention they are imports...

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...&__Qpb=true

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/dealer...id=1250DA4D6DFA

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...&__Qpb=true Mondial

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...&__Qpb=true

cl500

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...&__Qpb=true

500SL

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...rt&trecs=15

Porsche 930

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...rt&trecs=15

Porsche 930

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...rt&trecs=15

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/privat...&__Qpb=true

There you go, 2 minutes to find them, not very hard (these are just the ones being advertised on one site today, trust me there are many many more around.... I have known some of the importers over the years and my father about 15 years ago bought an import Rolls Royce silver Spirit and literrally doubled his money in 1 year, even after it had a blown head gasket, the dealer didnt bother to test drive it. I don't care what you background is, I have seen the exotic import trade for myself.

Agreed, wholsesalers don't want to touch ANY import, although we did trade an immaculate 3 door Turbo Pulsar back in 2000.

Im sure there is a market for CHEAP imported Euros I'm sure there are groups of people who will buy them...and usually becase they are so much CHEAPER than locally delivered - & wasn't that the original argument?.

.....if it was my money I would feel much more comfortable trying to off-load a stock JDM GT-R, over a hotted 360 from Honkers, a Ferrari purist would cringe at the thought of an aftermarket body on a 360, worse still if they knew it was a grey import. With the Nissans or any Japanese, grey imports are a major part of the scene..to say that Euro grey imports has ANYTHING like the proliferation as Japanese is completely laughable, it isn't the done thing and not as 'natural' as you suggest. What is interesting to see is how many of those cars REMAIN on the Carsales website, and for how long, and when sold what price they acheive if & when they are sold.

If you think a grey import Gallardo or 911 turbo is treated no differently to a local delivery by the average punter, that's fine, it's your money not mine! My only agenda is only a benevolent one, I wouldn't want to see any of my fellow forum members find themselves in the shit, it's a shame people want misinterpret this as something else... by all means piss your own money up the wall...but I don't think it's right advising others to do the same...

[Max_ST-R]

This is not an exact science. I was only trying to illustrate the point of the devaluation process with respect to its relation the model cycle.

Indeed, it isn't an exact science, one thing that skews this further here esp with Mercs, Porsche & BMW- are the options. I see numbers being fired off left , right and centre here about GT2 's and CLS AMG, has anyone gone thru the options list on either of these vehicles? I have (its part of what I do for a living). Just because a GT2 has an rrp of circa $450K for example, the options may push it closer to $500,000 then the on-roads. customisation is a big part of the purchase experience with these cars and more often than not, the price paid for these options new is disproportionate to what they get on a trade in, so the reality is that the real story can be even worse!

[GT-R32]

First of all you dont make sense. You are implying that someone has to drive a particular vehicle to be convinced of how good it is even if they are not interested in it in the first place? What kind of theory is that?

You see a car, like or dont like it, then decide to have it in your list of potentials before a test drive. This is the same reason I have no interest in test driving a VL Walkinshaw although some are convinced it is better than a GTR for example.

Everyone has opinions and I, along with a few others here, have never denied claims of the F355 being better to be incorrect. Simply put, I would never test drive one because to me, it is old. And this is only because someone here presented me with the question.

You are free to dislike it for whatever reasons you want. What I'm referring to is when you imply that your judgment is superior to others who do like it, all while having no actual experience with the vehicle. This is the logical fallacy on your part.

1. You don't have to like it, for any reason, nor should you have to sample it.

2. If 1 applies, don't imply that whoever does has made an inferior judgment call (eg. "some like em but only cause they own one").

That is exactly the logical fallacy I was referring to with my jovial post, example follows:

A 355? No I have not nor am I interested at all.

Here is how these cars and perhaps some might be able to understand when it relates to a Nissan.

F430 - 35 GTR

F360 - R34 GTR - Still pretty good and desirable for those unable to get the latest version

F355 - R33 GTR - Big ugly looking to most and definitely compared to the more modern ones. Some like em but only because they own one...

[N/A®]

You are free to dislike it for whatever reasons you want. What I'm referring to is when you imply that your judgment is superior to others who do like it, all while having no actual experience with the vehicle. This is the logical fallacy on your part.

1. You don't have to like it, for any reason, nor should you have to sample it.

2. If 1 applies, don't imply that whoever does has made an inferior judgment call (eg. "some like em but only cause they own one").

That is exactly the logical fallacy I was referring to with my jovial post, example follows:

I have never implied that my judegement to be superior to others because I simply wouldnt know nor care to argue regarding a car that again I am not interested in. What I was saying AGAIN was my opinion and I think this forum allows for everyone to state opinions or at least preference and choice. And just incase you didnt notice, this is my thread and I wanted to share thoughts on 360 Vs GTR.

Why the hell are you even worried or wasting time to force this issue and defend against something I have opinions on?? I really dont understand and will not waste my time any longer on this and will move along... pfft

[iamhe77]

/

250 GTO ... not bad either ... ...

Most beautiful car ever built

[GT-R32]

I have never implied that my judegement to be superior to others because I simply wouldnt know nor care to argue regarding a car that again I am not interested in. What I was saying AGAIN was my opinion and I think this forum allows for everyone to state opinions or at least preference and choice. And just incase you didnt notice, this is my thread and I wanted to share thoughts on 360 Vs GTR.

Why the hell are you even worried or wasting time to force this issue and defend against something I have opinions on?? I really dont understand and will not waste my time any longer on this and will move along... pfft

I made a jovial post regarding the validity of supercilious internet opinions. You bit at it, 'wasting time' in the process. I justified my position for doing so, which was pretty freaking clear.

Anyway, R35 vs. 360 F1. Back to it.

[GT-R32]

By the way, as a weekend car (not taken to the track), I'd definitely buy the F360. But I wouldn't get the F1. Regularly driven car, GTR is the obvious choice.

[Kujotk]

Indeed, it isn't an exact science, one thing that skews this further here esp with Mercs, Porsche & BMW- are the options. I see numbers being fired off left , right and centre here about GT2 's and CLS AMG, has anyone gone thru the options list on either of these vehicles? I have (its part of what I do for a living). Just because a GT2 has an rrp of circa $450K for example, the options may push it closer to $500,000 then the on-roads. customisation is a big part of the purchase experience with these cars and more often than not, the price paid for these options new is disproportionate to what they get on a trade in, so the reality is that the real story can be even worse!

well in my post i did say "excluding gov charges, duty ect." for brand new price, and for 2nd hand price with extras and orc included you still end up loosing nearly half the CLSAMG price in 2 years so yeah i agree.

But thats why FRESH 2nd hand is more fun lol.

saw a nice GT2 today driving through city this morning, race prepped, sounded nice

[R33_NICK]

in terms of performance, the R35 will win hands down. the Ferrari is in a lower class in terms of performance and the R35 is much more practical a well. but if you want street cred, attention and respect, Ferrari is better in those areas i mean, everyone who hears the word Ferrari will already think its something.

[Martin Donnon]

Yes they are nice cars, and the owners are cool too.....

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006301,00.html

Gutless heap of old junk ploughed into some innocent guys 4wd. Lovely

[Birds]

Ferrari haters

[OBaYBe]

Don't have for what you can't have.

[Kujotk]

Yes they are nice cars, and the owners are cool too.....

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006301,00.html

Gutless heap of old junk ploughed into some innocent guys 4wd. Lovely

go away martin, you never contribute properly to the convo and i'm sick of reading your idiotic remarks mate

[Godcla]

Bought my R35 because it was the Performance Bargain of the decade not to attract woman or looks.....

This is the GTR (R35) section of this Forum and it should be no surprise to anyone that the R35 was

the choice for most over many other makes such as Porsche or Ferrari........was for me.

[Birds]

Bought my R35 because it was the Performance Bargain of the decade not to attract woman or looks.....

This is the GTR (R35) section of this Forum and it should be no surprise to anyone that the R35 was

the choice for most over many other makes such as Porsche or Ferrari........was for me.

Good summary of the R35...very true words.

[Martin Donnon]

go away martin, you never contribute properly to the convo and i'm sick of reading your idiotic remarks mate

Its such a great conversation too......should start one about 'Whats the best car wax for a Skoda?' to match it

Really though, seriously the 90s and early 2000 era Ferraris are shocking, slow, horrible old cars - and yes I have driven them.

Comparing one of these old girls with a current generation Japanese Supercar is just dumb.

In fact last time I checked on the TG lap time board GTR seemed to be about as quick as Enzo - the pride of the fleet

I relish the chance to lap modern generation Ferraris in the 35 on track days. Its a personal hobby

Edited December 7, 2009 by Martin Donnon

[OBaYBe]

Since when was the GTR considered a supercar? As I've said before, don't hate what you can't have. All the haters sound like 17 year old school kids.

[Godcla]

Its such a great conversation too......should start one about 'Whats the best car wax for a Skoda?' to match it

Really though, seriously the 90s and early 2000 era Ferraris are shocking, slow, horrible old cars - and yes I have driven them.

Comparing one of these old girls with a current generation Japanese Supercar is just dumb.

In fact last time I checked on the TG lap time board GTR seemed to be about as quick as Enzo - the pride of the fleet

I relish the chance to lap modern generation Ferraris in the 35 on track days. Its a personal hobby

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test...The_Power_Board