Foglight Fine

[GTRNUR]

So Ive just been issued with fine for having a rear FOG light *edited* turned on, on my car. Except that to my understanding my car doesnt have fog lights as far as i am aware of. Can anyone help me clarify this?

The lights either side of the number plate on the back of an R34 GTR are the reverse light and what I thought was a "tail light". The police said this red light is a fog light. Now excuse my ignorance, but I always thought fog lights were those lights you see turned on during the day on commodores to make them look "cool"?

Also, as far as I was aware, Nismo did make a fog lamp option for the R34, but they mount in the front bar under the headlamps as per the attached picture. I dont have these lights on my car.

I have the japanese owners manual, and am thinking of having parts of it translanted to get a manufacturers ruling on what is what.

Anyone care to straighten me out?

Cheers,

Ian

Edited November 16, 2009 by GTRNUR

[ovaxitd]

take pic of your rear light that is a "fog light"

[GTR-N1]

A fog light is a light that is 'dedicated' in its wiring to 'parking lights' being turned on (or any headlights for that matter).

A driving light is a light that is 'dedicated' in its wiring to 'high beams' being turned on (even in flashing mode) and by law, only high beams.

I have an official R34 Owner's Manual in English (the type given out in UK R34s). I'll have a look at what it says.

[GTRNUR]

Here's a pic of the light that is in question.

[GTR-N1]

Your original post is confusing Ian.

Are you being booked for a 'spotlight' or a 'foglight' being on?

The light in your pic is a 'foglight'.

[GTRNUR]

Terry, do you mean the fog lights are wired to come on with parking lights...? Or do you mean the light is wired on its own circuit, in much the same way as parking lights are?

First post edited too so it makes more sense...

Edited November 16, 2009 by GTRNUR

[GTRNUR]

Your original post is confusing Ian.

Are you being booked for a 'spotlight' or a 'foglight' being on?

The light in your pic is a 'foglight'.

You mean the red light next to my number plate IS a fog light, or do you mean the ones in the picture with the yellow box around them.

I figured that by defination red light was a low visability tail light, as like they have on the F1 cars when they race in the rain.

[GTR-N1]

It's a 55w foglight to the right of your number plate.

You should notice Ian that when you turn your parking lights on, there's an extra switch on your stalk where you can turn that foglight on/off.

Edit:-I've just had a look on mine. It looks as if the the rear foglight can be turned on providing that the low beam (or high beam) is turned on.

I guess this would be so on JDM cars. On ADM cars, the foglights can be turned on, providing the parking lights are on.

But the law states that driving lights can only be turned on if high beams are on, and only high beams

[Owgasm]

Hmms...

Do you think those other people with 34s that get that light changed to a red light will get picked up for it?

It'll be the same bulb as the white light one, so not necessarily a fog light? If a fog light is determined by its bulb.

[GTRNUR]

After flicking everything on and off a few times I finally found the switch that controls it.

I just found this clarification of what defines a spot light and a fog light posted on another forum... now I just need to find it in documented law:

If they come on with the headlights and you can't turn them on/off separately then they are driving lights.

(which is how the red tail light operates)

If they have a separate switch then they are fog lights.

[Basti]

low visability tail light, as like they have on the F1 cars when they race in the rain.

thats is a pretty good description of a rear fog light

[GTRNUR]

thats is a pretty good description of a rear fog light

Perhaps yes, but technically "fog" is a low visability condition which is non-condesating. By that I mean that you can stand in the fog and not get wet. Rain is very diferent. Both conditions are low visability, but the key word here is "fog".

[GTRNUR]

Ok I think Ive got it sorted out now.

Facts are that running front or rear FOG lights in clear conditions will get you a $40 fine, under the new Queensland transport road laws as of 12 October 2009.

However my argument is that the rear light is NOT a FOG light, it is in fact a "Low visability tail light".

As per the Road rules - Questions and answers document posted on the Queensland transport website, (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebe505404930729/Pdf_road_rules_qanda_290909.pdf), a FOG light is as follows:

Question: What is the difference between fog lights and driving lights?

Fog lights are designed to improve illumination of the road in adverse weather

conditions and must be fitted not less than 250mm above ground level.

It could (and will be) argued that the rear mounted red light on the back of a R34 is not designed to and does not illuminate the road for the driver of the car or for other drivers on the road.

The light by design is to allow the the car to be more easily seen by following drivers in low visability situations such as rain, fog and smoke.

That is all. I'll post up how i go when I contest this.

Cheers,

Ian

[saliya]

Ok I think Ive got it sorted out now.

Facts are that running front or rear FOG lights in clear conditions will get you a $40 fine, under the new Queensland transport road laws as of 12 October 2009.

However my argument is that the rear light is NOT a FOG light, it is in fact a "Low visability tail light".

The way I read the PDF is that any non head or tail lights which:

* are independently switched (tick, on the stalk); and

* are not driving lights (tick, they do not require the high-beam); and

* have an internal warning light when active (is there one?)

are classed as fog lights.

If there's no internal warning light you might be able to argue that this prevents them being classed as fog lights.

If there _is_ an internal warning light I think you're going to be fighting a losing battle.

Might be worthwhile giving an ambulance-chaser a ring first...

Regards,

Saliya

[NISMO]

Dude, its a fog light.

Being that the 34's and late 33's (97/98) were exported to the UK it was a requirement that they be fitted with rear fog lights to pass road standards. The result was all cars where fitted out with them from factory.

Very interested to see how you go, especially if you can verify that nowhere does Nissan refer to it as a foglight.

[mad082]

i too think you are fighting a losing battle here. you can get all technical about it and argue over the smallest little detail in the hope of getting off from paying the fine, but i think you will find that most judges will just think you are being a prick, see the light as being a fog light and make you pay the fine anyway. basically the term "fog light" is a generic term for what you are calling a "low visability tail light". either way you were using a light designed for low visability conditions in clear conditions. remeber that the judge is allowed to use their discression in the ruling, and if i was the judge i would make you pay the fine.

it's like trying to argue out of getting booked for having a blow off valve by saying that it isn't a bov, it's a compressor bypass valve.

[blind_elk]

As you have discovered, the rear fog light is designed to improve your visibility to following drivers in "low visibility conditions", eg fog. Just like F1s have the bright red tail light for use in extreme wet.

"low visibility conditions" generally occur in "adverse weather conditions", eg fog, heavy rain.

There is not much worse than tailing a car in clear conditions with a very bright rear fog lamp glaring at you.

[grigor]

Be prepared for a heap of these $40 contributions from any car that doesn't show a warning light on the dash.

Same goes for front facing fog lights on old S13's etc.

[Owgasm]

Question:

Do you think those other people with 34s that get that light changed to a red light will get picked up for it?

It'll be the same bulb as the white light one, so not necessarily a fog light? If a fog light is determined by its bulb.

So is a fog light defined by its colour or bulb?

If a fog light increases visibility, is it the light cover (the red) with a regular light bulb behind it increasing visibility? Its like another break light.

[GTR-N1]

Question:

Do you think those other people with 34s that get that light changed to a red light will get picked up for it?

It'll be the same bulb as the white light one, so not necessarily a fog light? If a fog light is determined by its bulb.

So is a fog light defined by its colour or bulb?

If a fog light increases visibility, is it the light cover (the red) with a regular light bulb behind it increasing visibility? Its like another break light.

If you're talking about 'reality' here rather than 'legality', if the rear lenses are 'clear', I'd expect that you wouldn't get pinged for a 'fog light' and that HP would assume it's a reversing light that has a 'short' (but hey, that's still defectable eh?)

The rear fog light is 'red'. The rear fog light according to the R34 Owner's Manual carries a 55W bulb which is very bright.

Changing the rear lens from clear to red? You'd get pinged for it if it's on whilst weather is NOT inclement I expect!

And for the OP, the Owner's Manual states that it IS a fog light.