A Series Of Annoying Problems!

[benro2]

Hey guys,

I probably should divide this up into 3 posts but I don't know if these problems are interrelated or not. Apologies for the long post, but I thought it would be best to give all the details I can to minimise guessing! So here goes. Some background info:

- The car is an R33 GTS-T S2, auto.

- Until a month ago I was running Splitfire coilpacks but have returned back to (supposedly good condition) stockers that I swapped with someone.

- I can't remember exact sparkplugs but I *think* they are NGK, heat range 7, gapped at 0.8mm.

- Sparkplugs were previously gapped at 1.1mm with the stock coilpacks and it was misfiring at idle, so I got the Splitfires, which fixed the problem. As soon as I went back to the stock coilpacks (different set), the misfiring returned, so I regapped the plugs at 0.8mm and that problem has been fixed. However, the misfiring may be related to one of the problems below?

- Been running wastegate boost pressure (ie: solenoid disconnected, 5 psi boost) for a fair while now (can't be bothered fixing it for now, have another car to satisfy my "hoon" needs ), so that means I need to give it a tonne of throttle to make even 5 psi!

So here are my problems:

1. I stupidly put in non-synthetic oil 20,000km ago and ever since then the engine has made a ticking sound on one of the cylinders, both when cold and hot, until I ran an engine oil flush through it and have put in full synthetic Nulon 15W-50 "Street and Track High Performance" oil. The ticking sound is still there when cold but *mostly* disappears when warmed up. I think it's still there very faintly even when hot. Any ideas how to stop this ticking? Could it be related to problem 2?

2. This one is really puzzling. A few months ago (meaning on both stock coilpacks and the Splitfires) my car started suddenly losing power when it is cold. I seriously have to go into 1-2 psi boost to get any useful acceleration under 60km/h! Even on the flat at a constant 50km/h, the boost gauge needle is almost on 0! It is very sudden, almost like the A/C compressor has turned on, but saps about 3x as much power (it's not the A/C comp, I've checked), pretty much instant loss of power, like a switch has been flicked somewhere! I also swear I can hear a "click" when I lose power too, but that may just be my imagination

- On the water temp gauge, it happens only from just above cold to about 2/3rds normal operating temp, after which point it's fine.

- Straight after I start the car, it will hesitate for a second or two the first time I give it gas, then suddenly take off like it should.

- Occasionally, when I start the car, the revs will drop really low (like 400-500rpm) for about 5 secs unless I give it gas for a couple of seconds, which seems to get the revs back to normal.

3. After I got my 100k service done, I had a noisy timing belt which was apparently over tightened. Got that fixed but ever since then, the car rocks lightly at idle, like it's on big cams. Even when warm, mostly in neutral, I think because the revs increase just enough for it to be in the rev range where it rocks, at an indicated 800rpm or so. When the car has been running for 15 mins or more, *sometimes* in neutral it won't rock as much. In drive it idles at maybe 750rpm which is just enough to stop it rocking. What's causing this?

4. Going up Lapstone Hill in top gear in the cooler weather, I'd give it 1/3 to 1/2 throttle (no solenoid to help with boost, remember) and I'd get around 4 psi boost which would mostly hold a stable 110km/h up the hill. Giving it the same throttle in 30C+ heat only gets me 2-3 psi (to be expected because of the heat), however the car sort of hestitates randomly all the way up the hill. It doesn't feel like a sudden jolt, like I'm getting a complete momentary loss of power from a misfire or something, it's more like what R&R does - kind of like a repeated soft loss of power for a split second, like going from 90% to 100% power randomly once or twice every couple of seconds - I guess several cylinders in a row are momentarily running at reduced power. Surely it's not R&Ring on 2-3 psi boost!? Any ideas?

Anyway thanks again, if anyone can help with any of these problems please put down your thoughts!

[Moodles2]

1. Could be a hydralic lifter

2. I've read a faulty coolant temperature sensor or loose TPS or dirty/faulty AFM can cause similiar problems you mention.

3. Belt could have skipped a tooth, if the noisy belt was a Gates belt it's quite normal for them to make afair bit of noise.

4. Lapstone Hill is a race track? Sounds to me like a pretty bad boost leak, as for heat affecting it, I would say it's quite normal for the stock sidemount intercooler, they heatsoak up easily.

[blind_elk]

Heat range 7 is too cold for a stockish engine. Factory spec is 5. And for a stock engine, keep the wider gap, maybe close down to 1mm. And put the Splitfires back in.

15W-50 oil is too "heavy". Factory spec is 7.5-30. The first part of the description, use 0, 5, 10. The second part, use 30, certainly nothing more than a 40. eg 5W-30, 0W-40.

Have you checked the ignition timing is correct? Retarded timing will certainly display symptoms of poor power delivery. Are you running the factory air box, or do you have an unshielded pod filter?

[benro2]

1. Could be a hydralic lifter

2. I've read a faulty coolant temperature sensor or loose TPS or dirty/faulty AFM can cause similiar problems you mention.

3. Belt could have skipped a tooth, if the noisy belt was a Gates belt it's quite normal for them to make afair bit of noise.

4. Lapstone Hill is a race track? Sounds to me like a pretty bad boost leak, as for heat affecting it, I would say it's quite normal for the stock sidemount intercooler, they heatsoak up easily.

1. Yes, I was thinking this, however they're pretty expensive to replace, right? I was told to replace all of them I was going to bother, then when I heard the price, I decided against it. Should I bother? Could it have something to do with my cold start issues or low power delivery? If not, I'll just leave it I think. Perhaps another engine oil flush would help?

2. I really have no idea how to check these things. Is it doable with a multimeter or will I require special tools?

3. The noise has gone now, I'm mostly concerned about the rocking. It's not uncomfortable, just annoying.

4. LOL, I'm not treating it as a "racetrack", it's more just so I don't lose speed going up there. Everyone starts at 110km/h at the bottom of that (speed limit is 90)! Lately I'm at about 100km/h by the top, in 30C+ heat, 1 person in the car, ~3 psi boost, nearly half throttle! That's very bad.

Heat range 7 is too cold for a stockish engine. Factory spec is 5. And for a stock engine, keep the wider gap, maybe close down to 1mm. And put the Splitfires back in.

15W-50 oil is too "heavy". Factory spec is 7.5-30. The first part of the description, use 0, 5, 10. The second part, use 30, certainly nothing more than a 40. eg 5W-30, 0W-40.

Have you checked the ignition timing is correct? Retarded timing will certainly display symptoms of poor power delivery. Are you running the factory air box, or do you have an unshielded pod filter?

The reason why I have 7's is on the advice of a friend who claimed he was running 7's because of the information on these forums! He also said that 5's are too hot and that some people run 6's in Australia because of the hotter weather. Is this correct? Also, is there anything actually wrong with the stock coilpacks? I can't really get my old Splitfires back - I sold them to someone, but I can buy some new ones. Although, is that really necessary? Re: the gapping, on stock coilpacks @ 1.1mm it was misfiring, coming straight from a car that wasn't misfiring into mine. So I'm thinking that a smaller gap would be better in terms of preventing misfiring, but what's the flipside of this? What about using a 0.9 or 1.0mm gapping instead?

What effects would this "heavy" oil have? Can I just leave it until the next oil change?

No, I haven't checked the ignition timing, although I would have thought that it would have been checked on my 100k service! I'll have to check that ASAP. I'm running the factory air box but with a K&N panel filter. I used to run an unshielded APEXi pod but it was too noisy...

Edited November 16, 2009 by benro2

[Moodles2]

I agree with blind_elks oil recommendation, 15w is just too thick of a cold rating (could explain the ticking while cold), 0w,5w,10w (0w & 5w are the better choices), and -50 is just too thick of a hot rating, 30 & 40 are ideal (40 is better of the 2)

[Sheriff Wan]

Have you still got the standard fuel pump?

also check your ignitor pack

[blind_elk]

What effects would this "heavy" oil have? Can I just leave it until the next oil change?

In terms of the effect on performance, I've had it described as like driving with the handbrake partly on. The engine will still be basically ok, and will get decent lubrication with this oil. Being summer, I would expect that it might be useful to have a slightly heavier oil, but for future reference I would recommend the 10W-40 for summer, and the 5W-30 for winter (maybe even 0W in the Blue Mountains).

[benro2]

I agree with blind_elks oil recommendation, 15w is just too thick of a cold rating (could explain the ticking while cold), 0w,5w,10w (0w & 5w are the better choices), and -50 is just too thick of a hot rating, 30 & 40 are ideal (40 is better of the 2)

Ahhhhhh right, I get what you mean - it's too thick to be able to get through the fine oil lines of the hydraulic lifters, which is what's causing the ticking?

Have you still got the standard fuel pump?

also check your ignitor pack

Yes, standard fuel pump.

What exactly is the ignitor pack?

[benro2]

In terms of the effect on performance, I've had it described as like driving with the handbrake partly on.

Oh really!? To tell you the truth I didn't really notice any difference in performance once it was warmed up, but then again, I'm happy with this thing on 4-5 psi so who knows... I REALLY need to get that Jaycar IEBC and DFA in... been with Sydneykid for probably 2 years now...(my fault)

[Radioham]

2. My car has similar problem. After I swapped a second hand(maybe still bit faulty) crank angle sensor. Now it drives normal when it's warm, but still bit dodge first 5 mins when the car is cold. Hope it helps.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Radioham

[mosquitocoils]

I would definately have your timing checked/adjusted by a mechanic, even just to rule it out.

Put the splitfires back in (if you have access to them) to rule out your coilpacks. I'd also run 6 series plugs around 1.0mm if you're comfortable with that. I was going to gap mine down to 0.8 after reading everything here, but several mechanics and friends in real life told me that I won't benefit from it unless I'm actually having an issue...so I went to 1.0 with splitfires, haven't had an issue yet...

Having said all this, you didn't mention missfiring, so I doubt it's a sparking problem.

I would also either hook up your stock boost solenoid or some form of boost controller, just again to rule out your actuator as the problem.

Basically, try and eliminate as many 'mods' as you can by going back to stock, or as close to stock as you can go.

[benro2]

2. My car has similar problem. After I swapped a second hand(maybe still bit faulty) crank angle sensor. Now it drives normal when it's warm, but still bit dodge first 5 mins when the car is cold. Hope it helps.

Thanks for that, definitely helps! Making a list of stuff to check when I get the chance. A friend just got a hoist put in his garage...

I would definately have your timing checked/adjusted by a mechanic, even just to rule it out.

Put the splitfires back in (if you have access to them) to rule out your coilpacks. I'd also run 6 series plugs around 1.0mm if you're comfortable with that. I was going to gap mine down to 0.8 after reading everything here, but several mechanics and friends in real life told me that I won't benefit from it unless I'm actually having an issue...so I went to 1.0 with splitfires, haven't had an issue yet...

Having said all this, you didn't mention missfiring, so I doubt it's a sparking problem.

I would also either hook up your stock boost solenoid or some form of boost controller, just again to rule out your actuator as the problem.

Basically, try and eliminate as many 'mods' as you can by going back to stock, or as close to stock as you can go.

Yes, the car is actually quite stock now, as you can see... which is actually more of a rarity these days than modded cars are! I've tried to keep it as stock as possible just to try and stop stuff going wrong with it.

Unfortunately, getting a hold of the splitfires again won't be easy, but if it's just to test some things for a couple of hours it should be OK. Unfortunately that rules out cold start things, however I was having the cold start problems with the Splitfires anyway...

I'm definitely interested to see what changing to the 6 heat series plugs gapped at 1.0mm will do.

I did actually hook up the stock boost solenoid a while back and it didn't have any effect! I'm 99% sure all the piping was as it should be, but there *is* that 1% of uncertainty... A friend told me that the wastegate actuators grow weaker with time so the wastegate opens up earlier, and probably would run less boost, however I'm doubting that's the problem as I understand the stock wastegate spring is set to 5 psi, and I can run 5 (in the hot) to 5.5 psi (in the cold) on WOT. *Unless* what he meant is that the wastegate just opens up earlier, but still holds 5 psi? I don't know... all I know is that I'm unable to run 7-8 psi anymore, with or without the solenoid! Tthere is a way to get it to run 7-8 psi all the time, not just > 4500rpm, via a rerouting of some boost lines, but I couldn't get that to work either! However, once I get my IEBC back it should all just work again (theoretically)...

[Radioham]

Hey man, solved any of your problems yet

[benro2]

Nah, I haven't had the time to look at everything just yet! Man, I'm slack Hoping to get to it some time this week and will post the results here.

[shyr33]

Hey mate

I would also say the ticking when cold is due to the slightly thicker oil (15) taking a while to warm up enough to thin out and lubricate all the areas. I use 10W50 in mine and it runs perfectly for normal street driving. I would say for track work etc you might want to use a slightly thinner oil e.g. 40.

Also my car is also suffering from the slight rocks at idle but I need new coilpacks as the car misfires quite a bit so I'm assuming its doing the same at idle now and because it is revving so low at idle you feel it alot more.

[benro2]

Hey mate

I would also say the ticking when cold is due to the slightly thicker oil (15) taking a while to warm up enough to thin out and lubricate all the areas. I use 10W50 in mine and it runs perfectly for normal street driving. I would say for track work etc you might want to use a slightly thinner oil e.g. 40.

Also my car is also suffering from the slight rocks at idle but I need new coilpacks as the car misfires quite a bit so I'm assuming its doing the same at idle now and because it is revving so low at idle you feel it alot more.

Ah, that's good to know about that ticking. I'll just change the oil next time it's due, doesn't really bother me *that* much, as long as it doesn't have to do with problem #2!

OK, I know the rocking you're talking about with the misfiring, but mine's not doing that - it's a different kind of rocking Mine used to do that before I changed to the Splitfires. It's more like a sudden vibration through the car as 1 or 2 cylinders misfire, and it's very random. Does that sound like it? Mine is just a constant rocking, definitely not related to misfiring - closest thing I can think of is like being on big cams (like 260+). I'm thinking that possibly it could be related to using the wrong oil, as maybe the hydraulic lifter still isn't working properly, therefore the "quality" of the burn is wrong and therefore makes the engine slightly unbalanced, which then rocks the car constantly?

[shyr33]

Obviously if say 2 of your cylinders were misfiring it feels/sounds alot worse than if 1 cylinder was, so maybe it could be misfiring in more cylinders? I knew someone with a 4 cylinder car and 1 of her cylinders werent firing, it would shudder the whole car at idle. I wouldn't think it's the 'wrong' oil doing it. People put all different grades of oil in their skyline and I havent heard much about it causing a rocking at idle.

As mentioned I would check the spark plugs, make sure they arent fouled or anything, then re-gap them to closer to 1mm and see how that goes. Then you might have to see if you can borrow someones 'good' coilpacks and check if it still does it. This is my guess but I am assuming if you are running a relatively stock car and gap the plugs to low then you can still be adversly affected because they fire to quickly or something like that. So the ignition times slightly change. But again people on here run lower gaps and dont have a problem so I dont know....

[benro2]

Obviously if say 2 of your cylinders were misfiring it feels/sounds alot worse than if 1 cylinder was, so maybe it could be misfiring in more cylinders? I knew someone with a 4 cylinder car and 1 of her cylinders werent firing, it would shudder the whole car at idle. I wouldn't think it's the 'wrong' oil doing it. People put all different grades of oil in their skyline and I havent heard much about it causing a rocking at idle.

As mentioned I would check the spark plugs, make sure they arent fouled or anything, then re-gap them to closer to 1mm and see how that goes. Then you might have to see if you can borrow someones 'good' coilpacks and check if it still does it. This is my guess but I am assuming if you are running a relatively stock car and gap the plugs to low then you can still be adversly affected because they fire to quickly or something like that. So the ignition times slightly change. But again people on here run lower gaps and dont have a problem so I dont know....

I'm quite sure it's not misfiring - I'll explain I should also mention that I am incredibly anal about even the slightest change in the car so it's probably something that a lot of people wouldn't even notice!

A while ago, before I had the Splitfires, it was definitely misfiring at idle. A little bit a first, maybe 1-2 misfires every 5-10 secs or so. It gradually got worse and worse, until the car almost wouldn't idle, but it was still random. I put in the Splitfires and it fixed the problem completely.

Then, I think I had the 100K service done - something that could have put out the ignition timing, and they would have changed the plugs at that time too. It was at this point that I noticed this rocking. Now I should clarify, it's not fully "rocking" the car as bad as you think. I don't know if anyone could see it from the outside, but you can just feel it moving slightly. It's not like a huge lumpy V8 cam or anything, just a very slight rocking that is constant with engine revs, as if one cylinder is putting the engine out of balance - definitely not random like the misfiring was!

At that time, I had the Splitfires in, and recently I found the plugs were 5 heat range and gapped to 1.1mm. At this point all I did was swap the coilpacks back to stock, but a different set (ie: not the stockers I had that were playing up beforehand). The car started misfiring at idle again, like it did when it first started the first time (ie: 1-2 misfires every 5-10 secs or so, usually when the A/C compressor turned on). So then, I pulled those out, put in 7 heat range and gapped to 0.8mm. Misfiring stopped. Still rocking.

At that point I did an engine oil flush and changed to the 15W-50 oil. Still ticking (not as much though), still rocking.

So I'm thinking that it's a possible combination of problems:

- Ignition timing (also as someone suggested, could be the cause of my cold start issues)

- Plug temp and gapping

- Oil type (too thick, probably not running through one of the hydraulic lifters properly)

Also, one thing I realised last night that makes me think even more than the cold start issues are related to ignition timing - as I mentioned before, to get any meaninful acceleration I need to be pretty much into a couple of psi boost. It's such a small throttle variance that I can't tell whether I'm actually giving it more throttle or not. It also does weird stuff like getting a sudden (small) burst of power ever couple of hundred rpm, as though it's going up through the cells in its map and changing the ignition timing. When it's doing this low power trick I need about 2500rpm before I get any decent power - below that I need to be in boost to even keep up with slow traffic!

Weird...

[shyr33]

Hrmm well we all know that we dont have brand new cars anymore so there is always going to be some little problem associated with them but yours is not that little haha. I know when my car is cold also it jerks around a bit with low idling (400-500rpm) and then I give it a rev and it usually goes a little higher. So might need to clean that AAC valve. Also it is a little sluggish when cold but I thought that was kind of normal when cold?

Um as you said I think its most likely ignition timing related. What exactly did they do on the 100km service?

Can you take it back there and tell them what is happening? A good mechanic should look at it and fix it for free if they did something wrong!

[benro2]

Hrmm well we all know that we dont have brand new cars anymore so there is always going to be some little problem associated with them but yours is not that little haha. I know when my car is cold also it jerks around a bit with low idling (400-500rpm) and then I give it a rev and it usually goes a little higher. So might need to clean that AAC valve. Also it is a little sluggish when cold but I thought that was kind of normal when cold?

Um as you said I think its most likely ignition timing related. What exactly did they do on the 100km service?

Can you take it back there and tell them what is happening? A good mechanic should look at it and fix it for free if they did something wrong!

Yeah, unfortunately they're far from new, but that doesn't mean you can't having them running well! I've had mine for 4.5 years now and up until the 100k service it ran like a dream - bought it at 49k, and I have had those km's independently verified too, twice. Never had any problems with anything whatsoever before that, but since then I've had a few small electrical problems (one of the mirrors doesn't fold in, both washer pumps blew, a headlight blew, ABS light is on, etc.) and then I had my power steering system develop a leak and make tonnes of bad noises, fuel pump went, A/C climate control doesn't work properly (it's either pretty much full hot or full cold), and maybe a few other small things. Most of those have been fixed but they weren't cheap! However, I can cut it some slack because it *is* 13 years old...

As for being sluggish when it's cold, yeah it is a bit, but not by much. I know this because up until the water temp gets off the "C", it feels like it should when it's cold - not very sluggish at all. I'm never going to drive it hard when it's cold anyway but I don't need to go anywhere near boost just to keep up with traffic!

The 100k service wasn't all that involved. From what I recall (it was 18k ago), I think it was basically just the timing belt and spark plug change, plus your regular fluid checks and tyre rotation, etc.

They did over tighten the timing belt so I took it back and it's from then that it's been acting up. So you can understand why I'd rather trace/fix it myself!

What's this AAC valve you speak of?