Planning A Power Upgrade To R33 Gt-r

[Shinrai]

Thank you...

I had done some reading through that section. However, there have been some suggestions of differences with the Garrett turbos vs. the HKS. I was just attempting to gain clarity on what these differences are across the range.

It seems there is really a negligible difference.

With the price difference, it seems I will end up going for the Garrett GT2850R-5's.

[bigmikespec]

Thank you...

I had done some reading through that section. However, there have been some suggestions of differences with the Garrett turbos vs. the HKS. I was just attempting to gain clarity on what these differences are across the range.

It seems there is really a negligible difference.

With the price difference, it seems I will end up going for the Garrett GT2850R-5's.

I think that is a good choice, leaves room for more power later and at least you wont have to lean on the turbos much to get 300-330kW before you build your engine (if you want to). Lower boost pressure, lower intake temps and at at around 330kW you will be bang in the middle of their efficiency island.

[R31Nismoid]

-9's are the best choice for 300-330rwkw.

if you plan on 380-400rwkw later, then -5's are the best choice

[snozzle]

if u want a responsive street setup

go -5 garrets, poncams, cam gears, injectors, power fc dj (ur better off not running air flow meters from the start coz if u want to go for a topmount setup u wont need to change ur ecu again)

expect around 450-500hp with this setup (if u dont wanna rebuild ur motor, dont go over 450 with a conservative tune)

however, once u come into that power bracket, u can also consider top mount setups like gt35's which will fetch you much a more aggressive top end power (550-650), ive been reading alot of stories where the power delivery of a top mount setup is alot smoother than a twin turbo setup such as the -5's, ur pistons will probably give out at this power level tho haha

ps. i noticed ur not running an oil cooler, get one asap!

Edited December 11, 2009 by snozzle

[Shinrai]

if u want a responsive street setup

go -5 garrets, poncams, cam gears, injectors, power fc dj (ur better off not running air flow meters from the start coz if u want to go for a topmount setup u wont need to change ur ecu again)

expect around 450-500hp with this setup (if u dont wanna rebuild ur motor, dont go over 450 with a conservative tune)

however, once u come into that power bracket, u can also consider top mount setups like gt35's which will fetch you much a more aggressive top end power (550-650), ive been reading alot of stories where the power delivery of a top mount setup is alot smoother than a twin turbo setup such as the -5's, ur pistons will probably give out at this power level tho haha

ps. i noticed ur not running an oil cooler, get one asap!

Thank you for the advice on the oil cooler. I will look into these sort of modifications also.

Although, I am surprised that you noticed what I didn't have but missed what I did... A Haltech Platinum Pro ECU with a MAP sensor, therefore I will not need a Power FC DJ as you suggested.

[R31Nismoid]

if u want a responsive street setup

go -5 garrets, poncams, cam gears, injectors, power fc dj (ur better off not running air flow meters from the start coz if u want to go for a topmount setup u wont need to change ur ecu again)

expect around 450-500hp with this setup (if u dont wanna rebuild ur motor, dont go over 450 with a conservative tune)

however, once u come into that power bracket, u can also consider top mount setups like gt35's which will fetch you much a more aggressive top end power (550-650), ive been reading alot of stories where the power delivery of a top mount setup is alot smoother than a twin turbo setup such as the -5's, ur pistons will probably give out at this power level tho haha

ps. i noticed ur not running an oil cooler, get one asap!

for 450hp, why would you use turbos that are capable of 650-700hp?

That does not equal responsive setup i'm afraid.

As for the single vs twin debate... that too is arguable.

[bigmikespec]

for 450hp, why would you use turbos that are capable of 650-700hp?

That does not equal responsive setup i'm afraid.

As for the single vs twin debate... that too is arguable.

700hp that is over 520kW, at the wheels? Come on Nismoid, you don't really believe that do you... race fuel much?

At 450hp that works out to be about 50lbs/min worth of air, smack bang in the middle of the -5's efficiency island, you dont have to lean on the turbos to get the power you wantand plently of headroom for more power at a later stage.

[R31Nismoid]

I said HP - not RWHP.

650hp is what, 480kw. -5's have made over 400rwkw before on a decent motor with PULP.

Drivetrain loss is always one of those things no-one ever agree's on so im not going to get into that. This is only rough numbers anyway for the sake of discussion.

If you know what you want, which in this case the OP is after 300-330rwkw, then you put the turbos on there to SUIT that aim.

The -9's are perfectly suited to the aim.

Same reason i have GT-SS's (-9s) rather than 2530's (-5s). I know i only want 330rwkw, so i put the turbos that suit it on there.

Im making boost in the 2000rpm range and by 3300rpm the show is well and truely on.

I can stab the throttle at any RPM range after 3500rpm and boost is basically there in an instant. Good luck getting the larger -5's to do that, because they won't.

I simply do not agree with putting bigger turbos on the car than you have too at the end of the day.

If the OP is planning on going for a built motor and bigger power later, then yes i agree with you 100%. But as it stands he has said nothing about that route.

[bigmikespec]

I said HP - not RWHP.

Touche' Nismoid...

[paulR32gtr]

As Ash has drilled in - GT-SS are what you want with this setup. As you start to get up into these power levels, the last thing you want is a peaky setup if you ever want to turn corners, let alone badly cambered ones. The well sized turbo will always be faster.

If you are looking for more power down the track my vote is save your pennies until then, buy everything at once, and do it all at once - you will be happier with the result.

Also - the HKS kits are invaluable when you weigh up the screwing around to find this washer, that banjo etc, not to mention the cost. A mate and I put -7's on his targa car, and the price after finding all the bits and pieces was higher than an HKS kit, not to mention the time messing around finding it all.

[Shinrai]

R31Nismoid, to clarify I am after a minimum of 320awkw (not rear wheel as you mentioned), so that would equal approx. 370rwkw (I think) but I would like the scope to increase power later on if I desire. So wouldn't that make the Garret GT2860R-5's the better choice? My tuner also recommended to go for that or the HKS 2530's. How much lag are we talking about with the -5's? Wouldn't support mods like poncams and adjustable cam gears counteract this?

Also - the HKS kits are invaluable when you weigh up the screwing around to find this washer, that banjo etc, not to mention the cost. A mate and I put -7's on his targa car, and the price after finding all the bits and pieces was higher than an HKS kit, not to mention the time messing around finding it all.

I posted a link to the Garrett turbos on the previous page that make available an install kit which totals $2,000 less than the HKS equivalent.

HKS 2530 full install kit=$4,560 + Actuators=$300, Total=$4,860.

Garret GT2860R-5 inc. Actuators=$2,420 + Install Kit=$440, Total=$2,860.

Is there something else I would need to install the Garretts?

Edited December 12, 2009 by Shinrai

[R31Nismoid]

R31Nismoid, to clarify I am after a minimum of 320awkw (not rear wheel as you mentioned), so that would equal approx. 370rwkw (I think)

No dude, 320rwkw is 320awkw. Attessa is not fulltime 4WD, nor is it 50/50 split. It is not like a WRX.

Plenty of people have docuemented runs in 4WD and RWD mode showing very little, if any, difference between the two modes especially with stock transfer cases.

Very common misconception by people unfortunately

I would like the scope to increase power later on if I desire. So wouldn't that make the Garret GT2860R-5's the better choice? My tuner also recommended to go for that or the HKS 2530's. How much lag are we talking about with the -5's? Wouldn't support mods like poncams and adjustable cam gears counteract this?

If you plan to build the motor later, then ye -5's are what you want.

If you do not intend to rebuild the motor, then you'll never get a a point to make justified use of -5's IMO. They are capable of 400rwkw afterall.

And no, all the circuit GTR's here in Vic running -5's and 380rwkw give/take all use factory cams with cam gears, it is the most responsive around a circuit.

Most of these guys had poncams and similar and went back to OEM with adjustable gears.

Its not like cams can magically make -5's are responsive as the smallers -9's. Only capacity will do that (eg. going 3ltr).

Remember you can do the gears etc on -9's and make them more responsive, so the difference in chance is next to nothing as both setups can be "made" more responsive, but you are only talking a few 100 RPM.

It's not as if you drop in cams and all of a sudden the turbos are 1,000rpm more responsive mate. That just does not happen.

But... if you are going to wait 3 years or something why drive a car around with less response in the mean time?

You can always sell them and buy new ones later with a build, motor has to come out anyway so changing turbos costs basically nothing.

[Brandon]

Just to make it a little easier to absorb the awkw = rwkw for gtrs, I had mine tuned at 340awhp. Last month we had a dyno day but it was a 2wd dyno and so I had to drop the front shaft to go on. Guess what? Same power. Its a different dyno and a hotter day too so its up to you guys to decide if the dyno and temperature would make that extra 10% difference in power. To me? Its f**k all difference. If the tune is good, you'll beat a lower hp car anytime.

[paulR32gtr]

I posted a link to the Garrett turbos on the previous page that make available an install kit which totals $2,000 less than the HKS equivalent.

HKS 2530 full install kit=$4,560 + Actuators=$300, Total=$4,860.

Garret GT2860R-5 inc. Actuators=$2,420 + Install Kit=$440, Total=$2,860.

Is there something else I would need to install the Garretts?

Sorry - you are right it looks heaps cheaper at the moment to go with the Garrett equivalent with the way the USD and Yen are.

I was more talking about the HKS GT-SS kits rather than the 2530, which can be had from the usual Japanese exporters for around $3300. You also risk copping import duty which is a killer - I paid only $2700 for my GT-SS kit back when the Yen was better, then copped import duty and ended up around $3300. Kudos looks alright for the Garrets, allow for $100 or so in shipping so you should end up around the $3k mark. You might also want to confirm with them that the actuators included are the ~15psi ones.

So how long until you plan on building up the engine? You really don't want to push a stock engine much past 310-320rwkw unless you have the spare cash lying around! A 400rwkw capable engine could easily cost you $12-15k.

[Shinrai]

Very good question Paul, as R31Nismoid has also stated I may be better off going with the -9's if I have no intention of building the engine at a later stage. To be completely honest, I am not so sure what I want to do as in the back of my mind I would still love a R34 or possibly even a R35 one day, which I then may decide to go all out on...

So I may end up going with the -9's after all as I do love a responsive, punchy set-up.

[Shinrai]

A little off topic...

But whoever it was that rated my garage as a 1 out of 5 would you care to identify yourself and elaborate as to why?

I really didn't want to rate my own garage but I added a 5 out of 5 just to balance it out and bring it back to the original 3 out of 5 as it has only had two ratings (mystery person and myself).

Is this really a 1 out of 5 GT-R?

Anyways, I know it really doesn't mean anything as I am very happy with my car and that's all that should matter but I am still curious as to the motivation behind the rating.

Can't wait to add the turbo's after the Christmas craziness and really get some power behind it!

Edited December 16, 2009 by Shinrai

[Brandon]

Looks mint. Maybe someone accidentally clicked it. AND how the hell do you change the profile pic?

EDITED: Just give you another 5stars!

[bigmikespec]

Very nice GTR, change the wheels though

[Shinrai]

Looks mint. Maybe someone accidentally clicked it. AND how the hell do you change the profile pic?

EDITED: Just give you another 5stars!

Thank you!

Very nice GTR, change the wheels though

What's wrong with the Racing Hart wheels? They're 19" rims with 275's all round.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Shinrai

[bigmikespec]

Thank you!

What's wrong with the Racing Hart wheels? They're 19" rims with 275's all round.

I prefer 18's or even 17's with more tyre like this one:

But, what ever floats your boat, is a lovely clean example of an R33 GTR good luck to you!