Sorry Guys, Went With A Gt2

[NZM.031]

Nissan didnt dub it a skyline because unlike previous GTRs it wasnt derived from the standard skyline platform.

Nothing shares the platform of the R35.

But I agree, its a skyline at heart really... they just didnt make the GTS-t version

thats the whole argument... thats why it should not have the gtr emblem or be an r35... it should by rights, be a v35 gtr if anything, as its derived from the v35 skylines, or a z thing, or start a whole new family.

they couldnt make a gtst version of it.... the gtr version isnt fat enough, the guards would have to be concave in order to be skinnier than the gtr... haha.

[fungoolie]

Also, Mark, if you are still viewing the forum...harden up a bit mate...for most part you've had positive response in this thread to your posts, particularly from the R35 owners. I think the thread did pretty well to last this long given it started off as a tongue poke to R35 owners / a window into your toy garage.

+1.

I don't think Mark so much took offence at the meanderings of the thread but really at the advice Martin was offering to him. What I don't get is that Martin is an experienced tuner offering free advice on this forum when he doesn't have to. Yes of course he gets business from it but why shouldn't he? Not that I imagine he was anticipating Mark driving his GT2 over to Adelaide to be tuned by him either.

Everything single thing Martin said was true:

1. A canned tune by an "experienced" tuner is never going to be as good as a custom tune by a less experienced tuner without reducing the safety margins built in by the factory. Otherwise Porsche would have provided the same tune in the first place. Id rather a less experienced tuner tuning a car sitting in front of him than the most experienced tuner tuning something he cannot see/touch/verify. Tuning is very much all about sneaking up on an optimum figure. How many iterations did MGS's tuner go through in getting the tune right? None!!! They didn't even ask for him to send back data logs/dyno results. To me it's unfathomable that you can fly blind like this on such an precious vehicle especially when simply changing the exhaust on a car can send it's boost curve up the creek in an instant. I think Mark has been swayed or even hoodwinked by talk about people's "experience" with tuning the GT2 claiming that no-one here has done it. Ultimately it's still just a motor that can be tuned like any other. It's not alien technology. All the "experience" provides is perhaps that the tuner can get quickly get closer to the optimum tune faster because he's been there before and knows what he can dial in safely as a starting point. Ultimately the final tune is arrived at by trial and error whilst monitoring the motor's response to input changes. RS don't have a monopoly on this skill especially when they don't even want to use it...

2. Lack of effort on the tuner's behalf in minimising the inconvenience to the owner by allowing him to read the ECU in Australia and email the data file over to Germany to be tweaked to me reeks of arrogance and "couldn't be stuffed" attitude. They'd rather MGS was off the road for many weeks than just getting off their bums and communicating a simple way to get this done without removing and posting the ECU.

3. The fact they couldn't get the first tune right with the ECU in their actual possession casts massive doubt on their competence and/or care factor for this car sitting out of sight around the other side of the world.

4. And what appeared to be the straw that broke the camels back was the most salient point Martin could have raised. And that is at least verifying that the tune hasn't pushed the engine beyond any limits in AFR, knock/timing and boost. I've tuned many of my Subaru's myself and boost overshoots and ramps are so very dependent on the unique attributes of each engine and if the tuner pushed the boost ramp rates in the tune there's a very major risk that this car could very easily suffer boost spikes that a simple dyno run or logged run on the road will verify very quickly. I'd like a free service where I could do a tune myself or get a canned tune and then publish my results on here to be critically examined by an experienced tuner so I could perhaps go back and rectify a few issues/problems! It appears to be more than the German tuner was offering yet MGS took offence from it.

5. A remote tune without the ability to revert to standard when you take the car in for a service is immediately voiding your engine warranty when Porsche see its been reflashed. Hmmm whats the GT2 engine worth? $100K? Whats another ECU worth for hiding this mod? My minimum requirement would have been for me to be able to go down to my local tuner and get him to revert the ECU to standard when I took my car in for service/warranty work. My true preference would have been for me to do it using my accessport in my garage the day I drove it down to Nissan

And what's with that exhaust system!!! At least Willall's midpipes/exhausts are made on a jig and fit first time every time! Seriously how hard can it be to get it right especially when you KNOW you're shipping this piece of kit overseas to be fitted to a piece of perfection such as the GT2? I think one thing this thread has demonstrated is that these elite euro tuning houses/parts suppliers aren't necessarily better than what we're used to here in Australia.

All in all it's not the approach I would have taken with my car that's for sure. Others might disagree but what MGS went through would have left a bad taste in my mouth and I didn't detect too much of "I told you so" from anyone on this forum when they could have had a field day...

Edited February 10, 2010 by fungoolie

[Birds]

And someone said I have long posts

Well I'm of the opinion that the aftermarket tuning and parts we have here in Australia are among the best in the world, particularly in the ECU department (MoTec, Haltech).

No matter how knowledgeable Martin may be in his industry, I can see where his remarks came across as condescending or patronising for Mark...there are much better ways to offer advice than to project the arrogance (or R35 bias) that others clearly picked up on. But that is where a nice teaspoon of cement for the OP doesn't go astray...as opposed to the "screw you guys...I'm going home" aka Eric Cartman approach.

[NZM.031]

+1 fungoolies... although he did say that he had a porsche tech as a friend helping him out fitting the exhaust, and he has porsche friends in seattle (i may have made that bit up, i cant remember) etc.. and you dont know his back story... so maybe he has more porsche experience than he has mentioned..

while martin seemed to be offering free and logical advice, he came across very arrogant and seemed to be nit picking mgs's every decision.. i had a friend who did that, always asking everyone "why did you get that, why didnt you get this?? but he did it in a way that was saying "what you got is shit, your an idiot for getting it".. needless to say, hes not my friend anymore.

i think martin had the same effect on mgs.

[Birds]

LOL NZM I too have an ex-friend like that, who if you told that you bought a GTS-T he would immediately tell you that you should have bought a GTR. Somehow he always made the right decision when it came to buying things though

[fungoolie]

And someone said I have long posts

What can I say...I was bored

[NZM.031]

What can I say...I was bored

too much coffee can have the same effect... just you'll do it in a 1/4 of the time and not really know what you are typing.

[brmusty]

mate this car is hot love it,

I would probably go a porsche gt2 over an r35 as well haha

[siddr20]

Thanks MD. Your post confirms my perception of you.

Guys, this is my last post & viewing of this forum. I am sure I will come across some of you once I add a R35 to my garage. In the meantime I wish you great & safe motoring. Take Care, Mark

[Birds]

too much coffee can have the same effect... just you'll do it in a 1/4 of the time and not really know what you are typing.

Haha reminds me of the university days...funny thing is that even after being up for 32 hours straight and no longer knowing who I was anymore, I still got an HD for the lab report!!!

[Max_ST-R]

LOL NZM I too have an ex-friend like that, who if you told that you bought a GTS-T he would immediately tell you that you should have bought a GTR. Somehow he always made the right decision when it came to buying things though

...everyone knows a'friend' like that..and nearly 100% of the time these people are NO WHERE.

I know I guy who has the 'the BEST XE fairmont' in Australia...and is looking to buy the 'Best VP Calais' in Australia and we should be in awe.....

Then he tells us how often he drives one of his clients Ferrari Testarossa and except he REALLY knows how to drive it.

....actually a bit like that beardo violin playing loser on Kath 'n Kim who was briefly 'Sharron's' boyfriend.

[NZM.031]

those friends are up there with the "one uppers".... the ones that no matter what youve done, theyve done it bigger and better. haha.

[Kujotk]

those friends are up there with the "one uppers".... the ones that no matter what youve done, theyve done it bigger and better. haha.

lol yanks?

[BXAFTW]

Thanks MD. Your post confirms my perception of you.

Guys, this is my last post & viewing of this forum. I am sure I will come across some of you once I add a R35 to my garage. In the meantime I wish you great & safe motoring. Take Care, Mark

ok, c'ya

size 3 font in all posts ftmfl.

[domino_z]

wow here i was searching for info on the wilall exhaust and i came across this thread

Mark, sad to see you're not here anymore, havent chatted to you in ages, though did see the same op on a couple forums back in the day

interesting thread about GTR vs GT2, not that they're really comparable imo, the GT2 is too narrow focused even with the full touring pack, better comparo is with the turbo

Edited October 6, 2010 by domino_z

[g35me]

Yeah right, compare a happy snap of a GT-R at a motor show taken from above to a full on studio shot of the Porker with fancy lighting and wide angle lens taken by a midget!! Agreed theres beauty in function and thats why Porsches are so appealing to people who truly understand cars. However their real beauty lies beneath their skin. The raised emotion that their mechanical perfection causes in people tends to taint their view of what the cars actually look like. Honestly if another car maker such as Audi rocked up with something styled like the current 911 when they released the R8 they would have been laughed out of said motor show. Porsches styling is only truly loved by their enthusiasts. To all others they look stuff all different than what they did 20-30 years ago, especially with the "retro" look of the 997. They tried to change it with the 996 and the diehard enthusiasts cried foul. Ferraris, Astons and Maseratis etc are a completely different league to the German marque when it comes to styling revolution. Thank god for the ritual iconoclasts that exist in these other companies, (including Nissan). Imagine the time warp we'd be stuck in...

I go cruising with my brother in his 997 911T and honest to god, the GT-R makes the Porsche fade into the background when they are parked or driving together. And I'm not talking about some subjective opinion from my biased and opinionated viewpoint . I'm talking about the car that gets the blowflies buzzing around it with camera phones in hand and windows winding down while the 911 whumps on in relative anonymity. We were at a random breath testing station with him stopped in front of me and 3 coppers including the one who tested him made a beeline for me as soon as he'd finished blowing and kept me there for another 5 minutes just poring over the Jap car. I don't know if its simply the physical presence of the GT-R being so much bigger than the 911 or it's relative newness/rarity/novelty but it definitely draws all the attention. What I generally hear from the average punter is that the 911 no matter how new is "just another Porsche". And forget expecting a non Porsche enthusiast to be able to distinguish the different variants of the 911. They sometimes cant even tell a Cayman from a 911 and these guys are into cars, just not really heavily into exotica. I'd be slightly peeved if my car was being mistaken for a 1990 R32 GTS because the average person couldn't distinguish it from the old one simply because Nissan for whatever dogmatic reasons couldn't be bothered coming up with something significantly and two decades fresher.

What I truly love is that the typical non-car person hasnt got even the foggiest clue what the GT-R is! It definitely catches their eye though. They just know its something special....

I agree 100% with everything quoted above. To me all Porches look the same and I cant tell the difference from one to the other. My GTR always gets people looking even if they have no idea what it is they can just tell it goes fast. I wouldnt know if your Porshe had a turbo or not.

[Misanthrope]

Wow this thread is HUGE!

Especially for a porsche thread in a GTR forum....eh?...am I in the right place...where am I?

[Birds]

I agree 100% with everything quoted above. To me all Porches look the same and I cant tell the difference from one to the other. My GTR always gets people looking even if they have no idea what it is they can just tell it goes fast. I wouldnt know if your Porshe had a turbo or not.

Yes have to agree, many people can't tell Cayman from Carrera let alone distinguishing between higher spec Carrera models...which is good for CaymEn

But on that note, there's merit to buying and driving the Porsche, as I don't think many buy them for the attention...and if they do they'd be pretty clueless about how to get attention. They are as close to a driver's car (and by that, I mean purchasing solely for the driving experience) as you get in the high end Euro marque IMO (without going exotic supercar)...people look at them but they tend not to stare unless it's something with wilder than normal styling (GT2, GT3 etc.).

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

I drove a Cayman once, it was fking slow.

This is all the input I have for this thread.

[SKITTLES]

I've never seen a garage floor so clean!

You can see your garage floor O.o