Why No Alternative Fuel Hybrids?

[VB-]

to me it seems obvious, LPG or diesel powered hybrid, but doesnt seem to happen? why?

[JAS-25T]

Peugeot have been tinkering with it for quite some time and I'm pretty sure they have it available for purchase in other parts of the world.

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[Peter89]

LPG requires a large tank. i doubt diesel is as clean as a good petrol engine, also more noisy and poor power bands for car use for such a small engine.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Peter89

[daisu]

What you mean like the hybrids we have now (combustion engine for power and electric motor for economy) but instead using a diesel or LPG powered engines?

Or something like a combustion engine that runs constantly to drive a generator which would provide electrical power for charging and electric motor to drive the car?

[JAS-25T]

LPG requires a large tank. i doubt diesel is as clean as a good petrol engine, also more noisy and poor power bands for car use for such a small engine.

I think you are mistaken......

Of course CO2 emissions will be a selling point for the new 308, with Peugeot claiming a CO2 emission rating of 90g/km which is lower than the Toyota Prius at 104g/km and Honda Civic Hybrid at 109g/km. Obviously, the French have caught up! If the figures are close to the claimed mark, Peugeot’s 308 Hybrid will take out the title for the greenest car on the road.

[scathing]

to me it seems obvious, LPG or diesel powered hybrid, but doesnt seem to happen? why?

LPG-only fuelled engines would be a problem since you can't get LPG at every servo. I'm also not sure how popular it is as a fuel internationally. If you're dual-fuelling it, then you lose space from the LPG tank and the electric motors/batteries. Packaging all that would be an issue.

The Japanese don't really like diesel cars (notice how they only started releasing diesel vehicles recently?) and so that's probably why they never considered a diesel in their hybrids.

Volkswagen is working on hybrid Golfs that will have have both diesel and petrol IC engine options available to go with the electric.

[diesels have] poor power bands for car use for such a small engine.

In what way? Diesels make a shitload torque from lower down in the rev range compared to a petrol motor of the same displacement. Modern diesels also rev out to a reasonably high RPM and with the correct turbo sizing (and variable vanes) deliver usable power across a lot of it.

[VB-]

availabilty/popularity of the fuel world wide i assumed would be the main issue. but in aus, how often have you come across a servo without either of the two mentioned? i cant remember coming across a servo that didnt have lpg, and 2 out of the 3 cars i spend most of my time driving are lpg powered

nothing wrong with small diesel engines (provided they are turbocharged). i think the smaller motors are where the diesels perform better personally. as for cleanliness, i thought they were better than petrol? cant say for sure though

LPG tanks dont have to be THAT big. especially if its come straight from the manafacture, they could fit them specifically around the shape of the car. also lpg is a very 'green' fuel

[Silvia GTR]

to me it seems obvious, LPG or diesel powered hybrid, but doesnt seem to happen? why?

I thought the obvious one would be rechargeable, but yes I see your point.

When I was a little boy I made a wish that my RC car was real I have a feeling that day is being held up by oil companies for ransom

[Peter89]

LPG is a green fuel, compared to the others.

some power stations use natural gas and compared to coal, burn far cleaner.

a camry switched on LPG.

Based on comparative fuel consumption figures, the Camry’s CO2 emissions have been reduced by 2.32kg for every 100 kilometres travelled since conversion to LPG – an 11 per cent reduction.

Emission of Carbon Dioxide - CO2 - when combustion some common fuels are indicated in the table below.

Fuel Specific Carbon Content (kgC / kgfuel) Specific Energy Content(kWh / kgfuel) Specific CO2 Emission (kgCO2 / kWh)

Coal (bituminous/anthracite) 0.75 7.5 0.37

Gasoline 0.9 12.5 0.27

Light Oil 0.7 11.7 0.26

Diesel 0.86 11.8 0.24

LPG - Liquid Petroleum Gas 0.82 12.3 0.24

Natural Gas, Methane 0.75 12 0.23

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/co2-emis...els-d_1085.html

as you can see, LPG produces more energy for the same amount of CO2 compared to diesel.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Peter89

[mad082]

i think the reasoning may actually be to do with the cost of production. the companies initially were making them to see how they would be recieved by the market and there are plenty of small petrol motors on the market to use as a base unit in the vehicle, so it was a case of get an existing engine and slap an electric motor on the back of it as it would be cheaper than getting a small diesel engine designed and manufactured to put in it. and the fact that it was costing so much money to make the car to start with.

and i find the whole idea of hybrids ironic. sure they produce less emissions when running, but the manufacturing emissions far outweigh those savings.

[Peter89]

will help the C02 problem however, it ll just create another problem. pollution created from the production and waste of batteries which is already bad because of mobile phones and laptops.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Peter89

[daisu]

I thought the obvious one would be rechargeable, but yes I see your point.

Problem with this is current battery technology means the car would need a massive battery bank which would require replacing every couple years (not to mention the manufacturing and disposal processes).

Also, charging times are relatively slow. Where are you going to charge it from? Electric cars seem like a good idea until you realise that the power is still being generated by a coal fired plant.

[910trx]

put solar panels in the bonnet, roof and boot to assist in charging the car - why not?

that way when the car sits in the sun all day at work its got a heap more charge and wont need to sit in the garage plugged into the socket for as long at night

a commercial van which drives all day and has lots of surface area would be pretty efficient + tie it to a diesel for when its raining, accelerating or you run out of energy...

[daisu]

Solar panels are good I reckon, just need better solar and battery technologies.

[Peter89]

nowhere near enough surface area for current solar to power a car. also very costly.

hybrid is where it's at, yet they are still along way off replacing normal cars.

after watching top gear, a diesel electric car seems alright. considering the most efficient engines in the world a turbo diesels in ships, a decent diesel engine powering a generator for the motors. since diesel engines make decent amounts of torque, good to power the generator. yet, still leaves the battery problem.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Peter89

[mad082]

the biggest problem with the hybrids is the weight. that is why the new ford fiesta 1.6L diesel is more fuel efficient that the prius. it is also why it will outperform it speed wise too.

[Silvia GTR]

Solar panels are good I reckon, just need better solar and battery technologies.

Really? I cant remember the specifics but somewhere in africa they set up a small solar panel farm and the power it collected was enough to power england for some bullshit amount of time. It was quite clever the panels followed the direction of the sun through out the day.

I personally think we have the ability to go electric there is just no money in it for the established monopoly.

[mad082]

the solar panels used in that farm probably cost a bullshit amount of money though.

the biggest issue with pure electric cars is the fact that you can only get relatively short distances out of it per charge. generally it is around 200-300kms. now that may be ok for city driving, but if i wanted to drive to brisbane i wouldn't make it home, or if i wanted to drive to the gold coast i'd barely make it there. yes solar panels would help, but not if i'm driving at night. now if they could incorperate a small petrol powered generator into an electric car, something like a little 4hp or the likes, it would only cost a dollar or 2 an hour to run, regaurdless of what sort of driving you are doing

[Silvia GTR]

Yeah your probably right but there are ways around everything. Why not have a device that collects the kinetic energy from the wheels or other moving parts?

The generator is a great idea

[scathing]

Yeah your probably right but there are ways around everything. Why not have a device that collects the kinetic energy from the wheels or other moving parts?

That stuff isn't very developed either, so to get it to OEM levels of reliablity is going to be expensive.

Some manufacturers are looking at putting electromagnets in the suspension, to generate electricity as it moves. Honda was looking at using some of the hot water from the engine's cooling system to power generators as well.

It'll be interesting to see once they get all this stuff on the road.