Why No Alternative Fuel Hybrids?

[sneakey pete]

I'm pretty sure the new Nissan EV is going to have motors in (or mounted to) the wheels. pretty sure...

oh god dammit it doesn't.

Edited December 5, 2009 by sneakey pete

[mattymagoo22]

I agree that the prius is much more an "icon" for being "green" than it is actually "green". In manufacturing a prius more damage is done to the environment than most other similar sized cars or so I've been told. Also top gear did a test around their track where a prius drove pretty much flat out and a bmw m3 (v8) drove behind keeping up with it. The M3 used less fuel than the prius. Their conclusion? its not WHAT you drive, but how you drive it. Obviously some cars will always be cleaner though so this doesn't work as an excuse for why you drive an abraham tank.

LPG is probably the cleanest fuel we have.

Diesel is only cleaner than petrol if you think CO2 is the only pollution cars produce. Truth is no one knows what particulate matter and NOx is doing to the environment so its hard to draw a proper comparison. I feel that all the manufacturers have jumped on diesel, promoting it as the new "green" fuel a little too early...

Not only that, Diesel actually causes more pollution to refine than petrol too...

Not saying which is the better fuel but its not as easy as just looking at just 1 of the gases that comes out the exhaust pipe.

Diesel engines have a higher thermal efficiency than petrol equivalents and it (diesel) is a BI-PRODUCT of the refinement of petrol! With the new technology in DPF's (Diesel Particulate Filters) the soot emitted from the vehicles is reduced as well as diesels having catalytic converters to reduce oxides of Nitrogen and Sulphur making them much more eco/green than petrol engines! Using Bio-diesel futher reduces the output of these chemicals. Using LPG gas on diesel cars has amazing results increasing the level of complete combustion from around 80% to over 95%, reducing hydrocarbons and soot build up in the engine oil not to mentions the increase in power and torque. Diesel gas combination is quite impressive

Recent break through's in Lithium-Ion batteries have produced the technology to be able to charge a battery up to 100 times quicker than the current examples, which would simplify the problem of high amp rapid charge electric cars struggled to overcome.

LPG still produces NOx and the effects are well documented, Ozone depleting, carcinogenic and smog are just a few. LPG is up there on clean fuels but with the reduction in RON of LPG drive ability has gone out the window when compared with days of old(if power output is your goal). The new LPG injection systems they use today are very impressive.

[sneakey pete]

Being a Byproduct is irrelevant, as if its adopted large scale it will become the main thing produce with petrol becoming the bi product, etc.

[mattymagoo22]

Being a Byproduct is irrelevant, as if its adopted large scale it will become the main thing produce with petrol becoming the bi product, etc.

I was just referring to the fact that pixel8r said that,

Not only that, Diesel actually causes more pollution to refine than petrol too..

Therefore it is quite relevant.

[pixel8r]

Diesel engines have a higher thermal efficiency than petrol equivalents and it (diesel) is a BI-PRODUCT of the refinement of petrol!

Correction - diesel is not really a by-product of petrol. It is refined in a separate process. Sure, diesel might be produced FROM a by-product of petrol, but in the same way, if diesel was more popular, then we could also say that petrol was a by-product of diesel. Its just that both come from crude oil. As an aside, diesel requires more crude oil to produce than petrol. This is likely outweighed by the better fuel economy of diesel cars, but only if they actually do have better fuel economy and are driven accordingly.

With the new technology in DPF's (Diesel Particulate Filters) the soot emitted from the vehicles is reduced as well as diesels having catalytic converters to reduce oxides of Nitrogen and Sulphur making them much more eco/green than petrol engines!

But the fact remains that even with the DPF's, the particulates output is still much higher than with a petrol engine.

The Nitrogen and Sulpher oxides have been reduced in what they call "clean diesel" - but that diesel requires even more crude oil than normal diesel did before....

Basically if all things are considered, I see petrol and diesel as both being potentially clean-ish fuels, and both roughly equal in terms of environmental damage. If we could produce more efficient petrol powered cars, this would give petrol the advantage. 1L of petrol produces less CO2 than 1L of diesel. There are already some petrol-powered cars with better fuel economy than their diesel equivalents.

Conversely, if we could eliminate 99% of the harmful particulates from diesel, this would give diesel the advantage (bio-diesel is an interesting area to look into).

Note that the damage caused by particulates is known and documented, whereas the damage caused by CO2 is still being investigated.

I found this interesting:

http://www.slate.com/id/2187806/

Neither fuel is renewable though...so really I guess it doesn't matter which is better, and another reason why I think neither should be touted as the new "green" fuel. Even bio-fuels are not sustainable, because if everyone switched to (m)ethanol-based fuels, the demand would far exceed supply. For example, there isn't enough land available to farm enough sugar-cane to produce ethanol for even half the number of cars on the road. There are much better ways to produce ethanol than sugar cane, but the supply/demand argument still applies.

I'm not saying diesel is bad at all - just trying to provide a more balanced argument than all the 1-sided marketing hype from car manufacturers these days. If you paid them enough money they'd promote jelly-beans as the new clean fuel.

[ARTZ]

Some Japanese companys are actually looking at building electric cars that have motors at each wheel. This method has proved alot more effective in powertrain loss and allows for an expanded range with the extra power. Plus you get an AWD car

You know the other unreal benefit of this would be, imagine the turning circle on a car that could not only turn all four wheels but apply the precise amount of power to each wheel to help it turn faster, the steering and control you'd have would be unbelievable.

Also i heard that an australian company is attempting to use money printing machines to make solar panels, or something like that

Im all for the hydrogen celled cars myself...Go Honda!!!!!!

Edited December 10, 2009 by doozooby

[andyman9999]

hydrogen for the win