233 kw r34 GTT vs 300kw XR6 turbo

[samc]

Here's a bit of a scoop guys...let me know what you think.

My cousin's car (R34 Gtt tiptronic) was tested against a XR6 turbo and he lost!

Here are the stats:

1999 R34 GTT Tiptronic -vs- 2002 XR6 Turbo Tiptronic

Power (155 kw at the wheels) 233 kw at flywheel -vs- 300 kw at the flywheel

Greddy emanage tuned by SAS -vs- ChipTorque piggyback system

Greddy E01 boost set at .75 bar

Greddy FMIC

K&N high flow panel filter -vs- Cold Air Intake system

HKS Dump Pipe (3")

HKS front pipe (3")

High Flow Cat (3")

3.5" cat back exhaust (HKS?) -vs- Hi Tech Mufflers 3" exhaust system

18" ROH Drift R's 235 @ front -vs- standard wheels and tyres

265 @ rears

Tein HA adjustable suspension -vs- standard suspension

-front dampers set @ 14/16 hard

-rear dampers set @ 8/16 hard

(where 0 is softest and 16 is hardest)

Power to Weight = 155 kw per tonne -vs- Power to Weight = 176 kw per tonne

There's a bit of confusion about the R34's power output. My cous had shown me his dyno sheet from SAS after the Emanage install and it read 155 kw at the wheels(233 at flywheel). However, the "before" and "after" graphs clearly showed a 30.5 kw increase (which means that the "before" reading should be 124.5 (187 kw at flywheel) which seemed incorrect)

He had another dyno sheet from Unique AutoSports which was done while the car was fully stock. It read 141.9 kw at the wheels. Thus he had been telling us that the current figure should be around 172 kw at the wheels (259 kw at flywheel). I don't which is which.

The test was conducted at Oran Park with W Luff driving the Ford and Rick Shaw driving the Nissan. All up they did approximately 3 sets of 3 laps. This is what Rick had to say of the R34:

1. Great car to drive

2. Tiptronic system is slow, he had to adjust his driving style.

3. Trans feels like it needed a gear in between 2nd and 3rd. Certain parts of the track 2nd was revving too high and 3rd was revving too low.

4. Lacks bottom and mid-range grunt, but once in full song, car is very quick.

5. Cornering speed is equal to the Ford. (This is unbelievable).

6. Slower on the straight.

7. He was using 2nd and 3rd gears only around the track.

8. The trick with the Nissan (drifting) was to left foot brake while getting the bum out then apply throttle to induce wheel spin. With the Ford it was apparently just a matter of planting the foot onto the accelerator and drift is induced.

Both drivers were pushing the cars. Cous showed me a video of both doing drift action in turn one. Lots of smoke coming out of the rears on both. First lap the Ford was way ahead (2-3 car lengths) on the straight. Second lap the Nissan was ahead by about a car length.

My cousin was disappointed! He felt that he let the Skyline enthusiasts down on this one. He was wondering whether any of you would have any suggestions or comments. Perhaps the damper settings were not on optimum. Perhaps the front/rear height adjustments were not right. A friend was suggesting that if the front was way too low compared to the rear the weight distribution would not be ideal and would make the rears too skatey. He checked the air/fuel maps on the emanage and all cells (16x16) were on "0". This indicated factory settings. That may be the answer to the low to mid range lack of grunt dilemma.

I think the bottom line is that the XR6 with an extra 60 odd kws in its arsenal is simply more powerful. I could just imagine how a 300 kw line would fare against a 300 kw XR6T.

[Merli]

Tiptronic is useless around a racetrack. Too slow to react, and it seems like it has badly chosen gear ratios judging by Rick Shaw's comments.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that SAS dyno reads low. I've had my car dynoed at C&V, CRD and SAS all within about a month of each other and the readings were within 5kw of each other.

From memory:

C&V - 264rwkw @ 1.1 bar

CRD - 279rwkw @ 1.2 bar

SAS - 274rwkw @ 1.2 bar

So if your cousin's car only made 155kw @ wheels, then that is a HUGE power difference. Oran Park is a great racetrack. It has an excellent mixture of tight corners, weight swapping flip-flops and decent straights for those top end monsters to make up ground.

Just because your cousin has expensive Tein suspension, doesn't automatically make the car handle better. What about sway bars? upper arms? control arm? castor rods? tie rods? What were his alignment settings? It doesn't magically appear, you have to take the time to setup the car to your driving style.

What about tyres? Did your cousin spend all his money on shiny DriftRs and then put crappy Falken tyres on there that are useless for trackwork?

One last thing, is that with those mods, your cousin should be running higher boost. I'd run 1.0 bar... I know that people say that the R34 turbo is weaker than the R33 and R32 turbos, but I haven't heard any first hand evidence to prove that... only hearsay Why don't you convince your cousin to find out?

Cliffnotes: tiptronic = teh lose.

[ed]

sell it and learn to drive a manual

1bar?!?! you're evil andrew! :wassup:

[Merli]

sell it and learn to drive a manual

1bar?!?! you're evil andrew!  :wassup:

Ed, feel free to try it on your R34 and get back to me

[ed]

hahaha...how do you know I'm not already running 1 bar?

[Merli]

hahaha...how do you know I'm not already running 1 bar?

[sewid]

Was the XR6T auto as well? If not, I cant see how anyone would even bother comparing a manual to an auto car. Tiptronic does not mean anything except for sort of fancy slush box.

If someone went through the trouble of setting up this comparison, why didnt they bother getting a real transmission to go with it.

[memphis]

sewid, if you had read the thread you would have seen, 1999 R34 GTT Tiptronic -vs- 2002 XR6 Turbo Tiptronic

Its a fair comparison

[sewid]

Oh good.

[jtir]

Franky runs 1.0 bar day in, day out I believe.

[Driver]

i thort u would get more power from the r34 with all those mods?

[paulr33]

dont forget 4l turbo vs 2.5l turbo

the xr6t should come on boost a lot quicker, however its a smaller turbo (this sounds about right?)

[paulr33]

in an N/A form the xr6 would beat a GTS

cos you have the same concept

4l vs 2.5l

albiet the rb25de is strong, but i reckon the ford xr6 4l would be stonger

turbo'ing them both just gives a slight advantage

the advantage prolly goes to the ford too as it has a high base power which would result in quick spool and more effiency.

as far as i knew the xr6t was 220kw at the flywheel

not sure what the r34 is at the flywheel but i dont think its 220kw

[rs73]

I think xr6t was rated around 240kw at the flywheel because the latest xr8 is rated around 260kw. Only the fpv range would go up to 300kw I think.... not sure if they're out yet. Check the www.ford.com.au website for spec.

[hippy]

yeah thats true ... the only way to get a 300rwkw xr6 turbo is if its been modded .. and as far as i know ... it voids the warranty etc ... u can only get a fpv xr8 ... i've had a run with one in my totally stock 33 ... needless to say i lost ... but i want another run with some mods now ... i think it will be much closer

[njs]

as far as i knew the xr6t was 220kw at the flywheel

not sure what the r34 is at the flywheel but i dont think its 220kw

The ford xr6t is rated at 240kw at the flywheel while iám pretty sure the r34 gt-t is rated at 208kw at flywheel

[LastTemptation]

dont forget 4l turbo vs 2.5l turbo

the xr6t should come on boost a lot quicker, however its a smaller turbo (this sounds about right?)

the xr6 has a GT45 turbo, running 6psi. It makes 240Kw at the flywheel. The skyline turbo's are alot smaller than the xr6 garret ballbearingn ones. GT45's are the same size as the T60 turbo's everyone rages about (even larger). The 4.0litre inline makes alot of low end power, and the boost comes on in a very linear fashion, even though the turbo is large... Deosn't that say something about future upgrade ability.

[paulr33]

well this explains why you lost then

ive tried to take an xr6t before as well, it aint gonna happen

mine is stock btw

[NickR33]

has anyone in here ever tried to drive a tiptronic... It has to be the most annoying sh**ful way to drive I have ever experienced

[Abo Bob]

I beat one in my GT-t but you have to get the gear changes right to do it. For instance from 1st to 2nd I hit the button at 5200rpm and it changes at 6200rpm (although it's going through the revs so quick it's hard to be accurate with that). That was stock v stock.