Hello N/a Boys (n Gals)

[Jez13]

Ok guys, my fiance and I are moving out of beaumont hills (sydney) and going 10 mins farther north to live on a couple of acres instead of the crappy 500sq meters. Part of this move means I get to build a big aluminium shed for all of mans madness inventions etc. So I have sourced and put my thumb on a 260z to be dilevered when I build my shed (hoping for around late 2010). Only the old clanker engine is going to the trash and so I get to put what I like in it (with some limitations of course). I would like to keep the car in N/A form, hence why I posted in this section. My first thoughts were an RB30 with a 26/25 head. My second thought was a V8 (sorry for the blasphemy, not trying to offend, just watch darius 240z on you tube and you will understand).

This is obviously going to be a huge build for me but I want to start planning well ahead of what needs to be done. Obviously the drivetrain and electrics will all have to match the engine. The reason I am leaning more to the RB30/26 is because the engine bay is suited more for a straight six. What I wish to use the car for is just cruising and maybe some track fun, definately not for boring drags. I want an awesome top end (I had B16A in an eg civic with cams and liked it) and an old school note. Also looking at running side draft webers like this:

All thoughts are welcome guys!

[iseekool]

For me a lightly worked RB25DE would do the trick for an old car like that.

RB30 block would be great for torque - but not much of a high revver like the RB20,25,26.

On the video link - Are those really carbies or is it EFI with ITBs (I have no idea).

It all depends on you budget and time I guess.

[steveqwerty]

If you want a NA with torque just buy a v8 crate motor. Cheaper than building a weapon NA rb that in the end wont have a great deal of power.

[iseekool]

If you want a NA with torque just buy a v8 crate motor. Cheaper than building a weapon NA rb that in the end wont have a great deal of power.

Good point there. However weight/handling may be compromised....

Jez13: What about a VQ35DE, VQ35HR or VQ37VHR. Light, better balance (closer to the firewall) have lots of balls in stock form and lots of aftermarket support. Considering it's a "Z" car would be a very cool retro-fit.

[steveqwerty]

A vq engine is about 30-40 kgs lighter from what I can find. For a bigger power NA I would go the LS motor since there is a stupid amount of aftermarket support and cheep spare parts. But for a normal more reasonable power output 200-230kw mark the vq vh motors with some mods might be the way since they're lighter.

In saying that though, he says "the car for is just cruising and maybe some track fun" a bog stock LS motor will make enough power and will do that all day every day regardless of how you treat it. I'm not sure how much of a price difference a vq with mods costs compared to a basic stock LS engine. Oh well just some of my thoughts, guess it comes down to how far you want to go in the cost vs handling compromise.

[Jez13]

Excellent thoughts guys. I never even considered the VQ engine. I did consider a V8 but the thing I did not want was a car with alot of torque and a weak top end, so thats why I am leaning more towards the RB and not so much the V8 or V6. Then again I admit that I am not very familiar with the VQ engine. Last night I went for a ride in my in-laws type r dc2. That thing is a 1.8l with spoon internals, power fc, exhaust and intake. Spits out over 200kw from a 1.8l and loves to be at 9000rpm. So what I am saying is I would love a simlar setup to his but with a displacement of 2.5-3ltrs and obviously FR. I was hoping with a setup like the one in the link I might be able to achieve something like that. Possibly the NEO might be the way to go seeing as it has something like a variable valve system?

[JJAY34]

i reckon you should get an rb20 i heard there sick or maybe what about an n/a rb26? i think i got a magazine with an n/a rb26.weird.

[iseekool]

The LS V8 is a pretty good revver once you put in the right cam (lumpy cam) - bottom end power will suffer, however it will still have more balls than an RB engine due to outright engine capacity. Just don't expect it to rev to 9000rpm

Non-turbo RB25 neo is a pretty good motor - mine is pretty stock (high flow filter and exhaust) and I can definately say it has very good "engine response" (spins up quick) - power wise I'd rate it average (I'm in an R34 sedan @ just under 1400kg).

Maybe in your Z it would be much better because of the weight difference.

The idea of the variable valve system in the RB25 neo was to have better torque spread on the low end to mid range - Not sure how much it will help on the top end - however since you will be going cruising, having a little extra torque down low Isn't a bad thing.

[Jez13]

The LS V8 is a pretty good revver once you put in the right cam (lumpy cam) - bottom end power will suffer, however it will still have more balls than an RB engine due to outright engine capacity. Just don't expect it to rev to 9000rpm

Non-turbo RB25 neo is a pretty good motor - mine is pretty stock (high flow filter and exhaust) and I can definately say it has very good "engine response" (spins up quick) - power wise I'd rate it average (I'm in an R34 sedan @ just under 1400kg).

Maybe in your Z it would be much better because of the weight difference.

The idea of the variable valve system in the RB25 neo was to have better torque spread on the low end to mid range - Not sure how much it will help on the top end - however since you will be going cruising, having a little extra torque down low Isn't a bad thing.

I see, so the neo isn't a high revving engine. Hmmm, either is the VQ or the LS V8. It will be driven just as a weekender sometimes but I would like it to perform well on a track also. Hence my desire for a good rever. I would like to keep the engine a nissan but fact is they may not be the best for N/A's unless there is a good line up of internal modifications. After some thought I have come up with these suggestions, due to bang for buck and after market support. Either transplant an RB25DE in and rebuild it with all decent internals or just chuck in a stock RB25DET. I estimate my build to take 3-5 years though but I will photograph and document every step of the way. Now the question is whether or not to keep the 32 gtr eheh.

[Jez13]

For me a lightly worked RB25DE would do the trick for an old car like that.

RB30 block would be great for torque - but not much of a high revver like the RB20,25,26.

On the video link - Are those really carbies or is it EFI with ITBs (I have no idea).

It all depends on you budget and time I guess.

Yeah the video link I am not exactly sure what they are. I just guessed they were some sort of carby intake system but I have no idea to be honest. Looks cool though lol. My budget isn't really limited. You see I dont mind it taking several years to do it right, but obviously the more expensive components I buy, the longer it will take for me to save up etc.

[iseekool]

I see, so the neo isn't a high revving engine. Hmmm, either is the VQ or the LS V8. It will be driven just as a weekender sometimes but I would like it to perform well on a track also. Hence my desire for a good rever. I would like to keep the engine a nissan but fact is they may not be the best for N/A's unless there is a good line up of internal modifications. After some thought I have come up with these suggestions, due to bang for buck and after market support. Either transplant an RB25DE in and rebuild it with all decent internals or just chuck in a stock RB25DET. I estimate my build to take 3-5 years though but I will photograph and document every step of the way. Now the question is whether or not to keep the 32 gtr eheh.

NEO can rev somewhat high. 7000RPM red line. It's just the VVT system on the RB was not designed for peak power at high RPMs like the Honda system. But as you said this can definately be changed with the right supporting mods, but not the best bang for buck.

The best N/A engine in my opinion would have to be the VQ series of engines as they were designed from the ground up as N/A engines... of course there are the few turbo variants. I have no real idea on the price of these. you still get to have a "Nissan" engine too.

Bang for buck definately the RB25DET hands down, due to turbo engines being fairly easy to mod. Obviously it will no longer be an N/A - Also depends on your racing restrictions if turbos are allowed or not.

[Jez13]

Well it looks like it is easiest for me to go the RB25DET. My friend has a 300zx turbo version and I was not happy with the way the engine performed. It had a bit of torque going, good mid range but a terrible top end, and thats where I was intending to have the car sitting on the track

[KezR33]

2JZ-GE

No. I'm not biased...

[scathing]

Excellent thoughts guys. I never even considered the VQ engine. I did consider a V8 but the thing I did not want was a car with alot of torque and a weak top end

The later model VQ35DEs (the 221kW/300PS versions called "Rev Up" in the US) will rev cleanly to their 7000RPM redlines stock. Drop in some freer induction and exhaust and it should rev very smoothly.

At the same time they make power pretty much right across the rev range. The 6 speeds they come mated with have a good selection of ratios for said delivery as well.

If you have more cash to spend, GTM Motorsports in the US sells crate motors where the 3.8L is still rated to rev to 8000RPM (which is the end of the dial on a Z33/V35). I'm pretty sure 3.5L engines go to 8500RPM with the appropriate bits. And, if you want internet points and induction noise (one of my favourite things about the L series engine) in exchange for money, Top Secret does ITBs for the VQ.

That thing is a 1.8l with spoon internals, power fc, exhaust and intake. Spits out over 200kw from a 1.8l and loves to be at 9000rpm. So what I am saying is I would love a simlar setup to his but with a displacement of 2.5-3ltrs and obviously FR.

If your S30 is light enough, have you considered importing an F22C from the US and modifying that? You'll get the same VTEC YO power delivery in an FR machine. The engine's also so physically small that it'll sit well back in an S30's engine bay.

Or even a RENESIS engine? It'll rev smoothly and will be able to sit at 9K (or 3K depending on where you're looking ) until you run out of fuel or apex seals, and I know how much you love your rotaries.

[mad082]

Yeah the video link I am not exactly sure what they are. I just guessed they were some sort of carby intake system but I have no idea to be honest. Looks cool though lol. My budget isn't really limited. You see I dont mind it taking several years to do it right, but obviously the more expensive components I buy, the longer it will take for me to save up etc.

in the video the car has individual throttle bodies, with trumpet style inlet runners and no AFM. basically it's the same setup as most NA race cars use, although they normally have them in a big air box with a CAI feed. you can get little pod filters to sit over the top of them. it still runs injectors though as you can see them in the video.

[OoskylineoO]

i got a NA rb25 motor for sale if interested! lol

[Jez13]

I did think of a rotory and I would love to have the 2JZ-GE, but its a nissan and it kind of feels like a criminal offence to put a supra engine in. Before I came to the decision of getting the 260Z i was tossing up (not literally) on whether to get an RA28 celica or the 260. ra28 would have been perfect for the 2jze...but I chose the 260z. I will have to look into the late VQ engines, how much they cost, how much is involved in installing one. I fear becuase of how modern it is I may find myself with too big a job on my hands. Thats why I was looking at an RB motor, + they are alot cheaper so I can spend cash on lots of other things etc.

[iseekool]

2JZ-GE

No. I'm not biased...

Pretty good engine. Lots of torque over the range in comparison to the N/A RBs. Too bad it ain't a Nissan engine

No replacement for displacement

[Jez13]

in the video the car has individual throttle bodies, with trumpet style inlet runners and no AFM. basically it's the same setup as most NA race cars use, although they normally have them in a big air box with a CAI feed. you can get little pod filters to sit over the top of them. it still runs injectors though as you can see them in the video.

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification. I want little pods for mine when I get to that stage.

[Jez13]

Pretty good engine. Lots of torque over the range in comparison to the N/A RBs. Too bad it ain't a Nissan engine

No replacement for displacement

I know, it would be the best thing for it. Could I do it to a nissan though? Could I attend car meets and competition entries without being laughed at? Is it as bad as turning up to a commodore meet with a VN commodore and an xr6 motor installed? At one point I was steering more towards the RA28 simply because I could use the supra engine and box.