Performance Car Of The Year

[Birds]

skyline_man, whilst we'd both agree the GTR was hard done by in this comparison and should have won...I don't think I'm on the same page as you. It's a bit unfair to assume the motoring journalists and magazines are biased towards European cars when we don't really know what they were thinking at the time. Like with the seat thing...I don't agree with it either but I can see some point in it...a Supercar even trying to have rear seats is a bit silly. I think what they were getting at is that the Audi acknowledged straight up it wasn't going to bother with 4 seats. You guys trying to justify the GTR losing is this comparison because of journalist bias isn't much better than some of their reasons why the GTR should lose the comparison...

Just gotta remember that in the end it's just the opinions of a couple of people, no different to a movie critic having a go at a movie you enjoyed.

[TheTunersGroup]

I'm not convinced on the static paddles.

When I first got the car the static paddles was one of my issues with it. My wife as a VW R36 with moving, and I'd driven the R8 on the track and loved the moving paddles ...

It's definitely a personal thing but having now driven both styles over the edge I can see the pro's and con's of both

Hi Snowman,

You're right in that it is definitely a personal thing - some drivers prefer fixed paddles, some prefer moving paddles.

In a track environment many drivers are going to aim to get their downchange and braking done before turn in on most corners, so the next upshift isn't until the car is exiting the corner, and unless the driver has got the corner wildly wrong, then the driver should be well aware of where the moving paddles are on exit.

Some drivers use a driving style where they shift gears mid corner.

There is a thread on NAGTROC about our Works Bell Paddle Shifter bundles for the R35 here ...

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35346

It reads ...

Why would you want shifters that moved with the steering wheel? Shifting around a corner will upset the balance of the car.

Personally i think that is why the R35 is so good, it changes gears so fast, it does not upset the balance of the car. You don't need to plan your shifts arounds turns as much. I change gears mid-corner often. One of the best things about this car.

GTRworld tested an R35 with a paddle shifter that rotates with the steering wheel.

They wrote about it ...

The standard paddle shifters are in a fixed location on the steering column. In the middle of a corner when a bit of steering angle is applied they can be difficult to reach. You may have to fumble with the wheel or take a hand off to shift.

First impressions using the new paddle system is that it isn’t any different. The position and height of the paddles and the action required is the same as normal. When cornering however, especially in tight turns it really pays off. Your hands never have to leave the 10:10 or 9:15 position and you can concentrate simply on controlling the car. Kobayashi-san relates a story about the track use ...

“On Fuji Speedway at the hair pin final turn, and at Tsukuba at 80R when you have to upshift approaching Dunlop you would not want to move your hand for such a corner don’t you think?".

Similarly F1 cars use movable paddles, so there are clear advantages to movable paddles - if there wasn't then F1 cars would not run them.

As I said above though, it's a personal choice if someone prefers movable paddles or fixed paddles. There is no right or wrong answer.

- The Tuners Group

[Birds]

Very good points too^

Suppose it does come down to personal preference; good to know there are options out there that you can change to if you prefer one over the other.

[skyline_man]

skyline_man, whilst we'd both agree the GTR was hard done by in this comparison and should have won...I don't think I'm on the same page as you. It's a bit unfair to assume the motoring journalists and magazines are biased towards European cars when we don't really know what they were thinking at the time. Like with the seat thing...I don't agree with it either but I can see some point in it...a Supercar even trying to have rear seats is a bit silly. I think what they were getting at is that the Audi acknowledged straight up it wasn't going to bother with 4 seats. You guys trying to justify the GTR losing is this comparison because of journalist bias isn't much better than some of their reasons why the GTR should lose the comparison...

Just gotta remember that in the end it's just the opinions of a couple of people, no different to a movie critic having a go at a movie you enjoyed.

If I'm not mistaken, the comparison is called 'Performance car of the Year', NOT 'favourite car of the year' or 'most sexy car of the year' or 'most classy car of the year' or 'most pose worthy car of the year'. So why is it a tie, when all results shows that the GTR is the superior performance car?

And that's not taking into consideration the price difference.

If we factor in Price, daily useability, boot space and maintenance - the GTR is heads and shoulders above the R8.

You say that a supercar shouldn't have back seats? Why, because back seats affect the performance of the car? It doesn't seem to affect the GTR's performance compared with the R8 now does it? It is still faster than the R8 with the back seats. So why are you using that against the GTR?

[Martin Donnon]

These are the same guys that refer to the EVO X Twin Clutch manual gearbox as an 'Auto'.....says it all really

[LSX-438]

in a sense i think it's actually a positive thing that the GTR and R8 tied. If it won outright, it would almost fly above the radar because "the GTR won another award". The fact it tied basically crystalises - hey, this nissan really is just as good versus the best that germany has to offer - and at HALF the price (or less!). very cool.

[Kujotk]

So was this magazine an Australian magazine????

Also as much as I hate american muscle, I would have to say that from the evidence I have seen, the ultimate performance car (even cheaper than a GTR) would have to be the corvette ZR1 at the moment. Or have I been watching too much youtube? Too bad there made of plastic and steel and too hard to bring to Australia....

[fungoolie]

So was this magazine an Australian magazine????

Also as much as I hate american muscle, I would have to say that from the evidence I have seen, the ultimate performance car (even cheaper than a GTR) would have to be the corvette ZR1 at the moment. Or have I been watching too much youtube? Too bad there made of plastic and steel and too hard to bring to Australia....

No the ZR1 is more expensive than the GT-R even in the states. US$106K from memory with GT-R high $70s. Don't even think about it landed here. I'd go the PDK 911T for that amount of cash. 485 KW forgives a lot of failures in other areas of the car's design...

[Kujotk]

No the ZR1 is more expensive than the GT-R even in the states. US$106K from memory with GT-R high $70s. Don't even think about it landed here. I'd go the PDK 911T for that amount of cash. 485 KW forgives a lot of failures in other areas of the car's design...

[/quote

ahh gotya

[adznight]

'Audi' has no "e".

[Gibbo_R35]

Similarly F1 cars use movable paddles, so there are clear advantages to movable paddles - if there wasn't then F1 cars would not run them.

Good point....but F1 cars have one turn lock to lock, hence no need to remove the hands from the wheel. In the real world no road legal car that I am aware of has this steering range.

But you are right it is a matter of preference.

[Birds]

If I'm not mistaken, the comparison is called 'Performance car of the Year', NOT 'favourite car of the year' or 'most sexy car of the year' or 'most classy car of the year' or 'most pose worthy car of the year'. So why is it a tie, when all results shows that the GTR is the superior performance car?

And that's not taking into consideration the price difference.

If we factor in Price, daily useability, boot space and maintenance - the GTR is heads and shoulders above the R8.

You say that a supercar shouldn't have back seats? Why, because back seats affect the performance of the car? It doesn't seem to affect the GTR's performance compared with the R8 now does it? It is still faster than the R8 with the back seats. So why are you using that against the GTR?

It's their criteria, they can use whatever they want. But I don't think performance car of the year should be limited to the job it does on the road either. Sure it's in the title, performance, and it no doubt plays a big part in the decision...but we also associate a heap of other criteria with performance cars. They usually have sporty exteriors and interiors, engine/exhaust notes...it's these little things that make them what they are. I mean look at your "head and shoulders above the R8" criteria - since when did daily useability, boot space and maintenance have much to do with a performance car? These are the compromises that such cars make during design.

No the ZR1 is more expensive than the GT-R even in the states. US$106K from memory with GT-R high $70s. Don't even think about it landed here. I'd go the PDK 911T for that amount of cash. 485 KW forgives a lot of failures in other areas of the car's design...

Failures? Are you talking about the Ferrari-like aesthetics of that vehicle or the RWD clutch and floorshift combination that clipsed the technology-laden Godzilla's Nurburgring time? We tend to agree on most things fungoolie but please forgive me for missing the part of the ZR1 that fails, besides being more expensive than the GTR. That thing is a feat of engineering from a country known for going fast in a straight line. ACR Viper even more impressive...

[Max_ST-R]

there simply isn't 200k worth of fit and finish improvements nor grand tourer capabilities that the audi offers over and above the GTR and its cost/performance. I love the audi but not at that price.

You beat me to it!

I love the Audi R8 and R8 V10 and in many ways I have no problem with an equal first victory with the GT-R, I can imagine that both cars are very evenly matched talent wise. In a straight line they seem to be neck and neck with a minor advantage to the Audi...but see the lap time? GT-R a full 1.5 seconds faster!...I'm sure there is more to it than lap time, but if the judges couldn't seperate the 2 in terms of talent then by jingos the R8's price tag should have done the trick!.... as tested $384,857!!! the GT-R's $157,550 - a price difference of $227,307!!. That is an OBSCENE amount of $$$ difference. Money isn't everything, but I think that is too high an amount to ignore.....and I wonder where my 2 young kids will sit in the R8, as well as my overnight bags..or groceries or Golf clubs...is the ride in the GT-R REALLY that harsh???

For looks the R8 is a winner...but if the GT-R was in red or black (with the black wheels) I reckon it looks nearly as good IMO..

[Max_ST-R]

"...ZR1 that fails, besides being more expensive than the GTR. That thing is a feat of engineering from a country known for going fast in a straight line. ACR Viper even more impressive"

- Birds

The ZR-1 is an awsome machine, fast, sexy with a great noise...BUT like the Viper ACR, you need to have perfect weather/road/track conditions to have any hope of exploiting it to its full potential and you need to be very adept at handling these cars on the limit.

A recent European track test was a lot more blunt saying something along the lines of "the Zr-1 just feels like its always trying to kill you" It came last against a V12 Vantage, Audi R8 V10 and 911 Gt3 (which won the test). Everyone has an interpretation, some people think this adds to the fun factor and some people think the Nissan is too clinical becuase perhaps it's 'too good'

This has been brought up before, but mere mortals will extract alot more out of a forgiving AWD Audi, Porsche or Nissan...over the Vette or Viper..in which they are much more likely to end up swapping ends at high speed if they are not 100% careful. You can't under estimate user friendliness...even F1 drivers put a high value on a car that is forgiving and easy to drive over a car that maybe faster but always having to fight.

I think from an engineering point of view, getting a 1740kg car to match a car with 120kw more power, 250Nm more torque and 200kg less weight on a race track is a more remarkable acheivement.

[Birds]

Ah, bugger off...I already knew what your post was going to say before I read it and I just don't care for another ZR1 vs. GTR debate Max. I asked fungoolie what his interpretation of where the ZR1 fails was.

[Kujotk]

Ah, bugger off...I already knew what your post was going to say before I read it and I just don't care for another ZR1 vs. GTR debate Max. I asked fungoolie what his interpretation of where the ZR1 fails was.

lol i was thinking along the same lines as you when i was reading his post lol

[skyline_man]

I mean look at your "head and shoulders above the R8" criteria - since when did daily useability, boot space and maintenance have much to do with a performance car? These are the compromises that such cars make during design.

Yes, boot space, daily usability etc has nothing to do with performance. So why the hell did Motor BITCH about the back seats, harsh ride and "playstation dash" of the GTR when judging performance? You cannot have excellent performance without a harsh ride. FYI, the Veyron has an even harsher ride than the GTR, but I don't see anyone bitching about that.

Also the "playstation dash" of the GTR contains very useful performance parameters and information, but what do you know - according to those journals, it's too gimmicky and doesn't help at anyway towards the performance of the car..

[Kujotk]

we have already figured the magazine gurus are on crack...

[Shinrai]

some people think the Nissan is too clinical becuase perhaps it's 'too good'

A little off topic but WTF exactly does clinical mean in this context? Sorry, that I am sounding a little passionate about this word but I have seen it so overused lately and I still can't figure out exactly what is trying to be portrayed. Are you saying that when you drive the GT-R, you feel like you are in a Dental Surgery? Hehe...

[LSX-438]

by 'clinical' they mean exceeding competent without raising a sweat. and thus non-engaging / boring.

But... that assessment will only come from those driving 8/10ths or less; ie. soft cocks.