Gtr V 911 Turbo V R8

[GGTTRR]

Interesting video

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/...245697&CT=V

[Kujotk]

good win for Nissan, but still to be fair, at that last turn he didnt use the whole track with the 911 while comming out of the corner on a wet track. But still at half the Price even if the 911 tied with the GTR, the GTR is still the winner.

[skyline_man]

Porsche's ace driver Walter Rohl claims that the new turbo can do the 'ring' in 7:31. When asked about the GTR's ring time, Rohl laughed and dismissed the 7:26 set by Nissan as "impossible for a car with that power to weight ratio"

Well, the GTR is faster than the new turbo in this test - even on a track that is smoother than the 'ring'. Despite the smoother track, you can see the turbo bouncing and moving about. On the 'ring', this new turbo would be all over the place. But if it can set a time of 7:31 like Rohl suggests, then I can see no reason why the more planted GTR cannot set a 7:26.

[SilverECR33]

i thought it was 7:29 hmm. wheres that link to the offical nissan gtr launch vid...

[fungoolie]

When you get guys with his credibility making dismissive comments like that then you really have to wonder how much credence you can place on Porsche's other assertations. If it was simply up to "power to weight" then clearly the Nissan's ability to stay with the 911T in a straight line would demonstrate that the cars have line ball power to weight ratios. That was confirmed by our dyno day where the Nissan actually came out in front on power to weight. As if Rohrl wouldn't know this stuff already. I would have thought a dissertation on suspension and brakes differences etc would have made much more sense especially given in a superior german accent!

Was his laugh a Siegfried style arrogant laugh or more like a Col Klink nervous one?

Oh and the GTR did a 7:26 in April this year in a revisit to the ring witnessed by Porsche. That's when they went all quiet as I recall.....

[zique]

good to see the new gtr set a better time,sure would love to see the look on the Porsches face.

I download that vid onto my computer and got another of Aryton Sennas nephew (hes a formula 3 racing driver,i think) driving a porsche and GTR around a track and the GTR winning again.And he was deeply impressed with the GTR

[gp900]

good win for Nissan, but still to be fair, at that last turn he didnt use the whole track with the 911 while comming out of the corner on a wet track. But still at half the Price even if the 911 tied with the GTR, the GTR is still the winner.

What's truly amazing here is that the GT-R is 1 whole second slower than the new PDK turbo over the 1/4 mile drag.

That's one whole second !!!

The GT-R is heavier, less powerful, has narrower tires and one less ratio. Going into a track comparison with

those specs, you'd expect it to be slaughtered.

And yet not only does it keep up, it goes on to win.

Just mind bending !!!

[sh@un]

Porsche have done a very good job over the years or overcoming what is an inherently poor design for outright track performance, with their incessant tweaking of the 911 formula (seems sows ears can be turned into silk purses), whereas Nissan just built the car with the best dynamics they knew how to from the outset, and the proof, as they say, is in the eating; Despite being inferior in every way to the Turbo on paper, the R35 continually murders 911's on track.

It's telling that Porsche keep the Cayman hobbled to protect big brother's sales, when it's a much better design for outright performance than the 911. While ever Porsche is chained to that marketing reality, Nissan will keep kicking it's head.

[Kujotk]

so what we see here is japanese electronics FTW!!!!

if the japs use their electronics in the Porsche, I recon there will be an insane amount of factory power coupled with awesome electronics.

That would be one bastard child i would love to call my own

[LSX-438]

got some news for you blokes who think the R35 electronics make it quicker.

- they dont.

turn that stuff off; you'll go quicker.

[Kujotk]

I mean the good electronics isn't the nissan fully electronic gear box what actually gives it that little bit extra advantage over other cars with similar stats? Pretty sure it is, not to mention they have probably almost perfected their LC where as other makes havent yet..... if you mean traction controll and esp and all that other waste of time stuff, but there not good electronics, they just make you go slower. You do know electronics isn't just the safty stuff and the ps3 dashboard stuff? Ignition timing, fuel mixtures, stability controll ect..... the things you need to make a fast car go faster

Throw jap electronics in the 911 turbo and i still say it'll snap both the gtr and the turbo easy.

Too bad the rivalry between them is too great and porsche and nissan will never work together

[LSX-438]

I mean the good electronics isn't the nissan fully electronic gear box what actually gives it that little bit extra advantage over other cars with similar stats? Pretty sure it is, not to mention they have probably almost perfected their LC where as other makes havent yet..... if you mean traction controll and esp and all that other waste of time stuff, but there not good electronics, they just make you go slower. You do know electronics isn't just the safty stuff and the ps3 dashboard stuff? Ignition timing, fuel mixtures, stability controll ect..... the things you need to make a fast car go faster

Throw jap electronics in the 911 turbo and i still say it'll snap both the gtr and the turbo easy.

Too bad the rivalry between them is too great and porsche and nissan will never work together

The r35 gearbox is a good thing true. It's a big part of what makes the car quick, yet is the achilies heal in some respects. You're not going to see any GTR win a 12 hour i reckon.... Launch control, meh, is far from perfect believe me (rather moody) and makes no difference on the nurburgring obviously. Dashboard stuff is curious/interesting yet a waste of time really; will not make you 1/100th quicker on the circuit. If you have time to look at that stuff you're not going quick enough. Fuel/timing etc are just a given, no great magic there really, dial in the optimal mix and it's a done deal. Important to get it right but not space shuttle stuff.

The R35 is primarily quick due to:

1. Tyres/grip (you can get decent sized rubber under there)

2. Gearbox (instant cog swaps, mid corner without upsetting balance)

3. Great balance/handling for an OEM package

4. Power - gobs of!

ESP is just going to slow you down. At least the factory calibration will anyway..

[fungoolie]

1. Tyres/grip (you can get decent sized rubber under there)

2. Gearbox (instant cog swaps, mid corner without upsetting balance)

3. Great balance/handling for an OEM package

4. Power - gobs of!

ESP is just going to slow you down. At least the factory calibration will anyway..

Correct me if I'm wrong here Duncan but even with VDC off I'm pretty sure the ATTESA system in the GT-R still apportions power front/rear depending on how much slip the front tyres are experiencing in a straight line and also how much the car is yawing when cornering and the rear is stepping out of line so that the front can pull the car straight again. I've watched my power split gauge with VDC off and it still fluctates like mad when I step on it hard. Race mode VDC allows it to bring in the brakes at each corner to bring you back into line even more so and finally Normal or "nanny" mode kills engine power as well when you get out of shape. And before anyone goes on about this being a jap innovation giving the GT-R some "unfair" advantage, the 911 Turbo has exactly the same stuff going on. In fact it's 0% power to the front until it experiences slip compared with the GT-Rs 50%. It wouldn't be the "quality" of the electronics per se that makes these systems good or bad, it's the sorting/tuning of the software by the test drivers and engineers that does.

[Martin Donnon]

The Bosch Motronic hardware that runs the Porsche management system has its roots back in the F1 turbo days and is the most developed, advanced, and widely used commercially available management system available to manufacturers today. It is far and away a more advanced and modular platform than the Hitachi architecture in the GTR

As for the torque split, having just dynoed GTR vs 997 Turbo recently (as you well know Fungoolie) the Mainline AWD chassis dyno logged and plotted the way the AWD systems in each car work, and their response in a WOT transient at identical acceleration rates was similar, VERY similar, I can even graph them here for you if need be.

Facts are, the best electronics in the world - which Porsche have - is not going to overcome the fact the physics that the current 911 is still based on the poorly balanced Fuhrers Peoples Car of the 1930s. This is why 911s time has been, and is gone

Edited December 17, 2009 by Martin Donnon

[LSX-438]

Correct me if I'm wrong here Duncan but even with VDC off I'm pretty sure the ATTESA system in the GT-R still apportions power front/rear depending on how much slip the front tyres are experiencing in a straight line and also how much the car is yawing when cornering and the rear is stepping out of line so that the front can pull the car straight again. I've watched my power split gauge with VDC off and it still fluctates like mad when I step on it hard. Race mode VDC allows it to bring in the brakes at each corner to bring you back into line even more so and finally Normal or "nanny" mode kills engine power as well when you get out of shape. And before anyone goes on about this being a jap innovation giving the GT-R some "unfair" advantage, the 911 Turbo has exactly the same stuff going on. In fact it's 0% power to the front until it experiences slip compared with the GT-Rs 50%. It wouldn't be the "quality" of the electronics per se that makes these systems good or bad, it's the sorting/tuning of the software by the test drivers and engineers that does.

its a good point. How many of you have watched the torque split screen when driving agressively or on the track, and what did you conclude?

[writeoff]

The Bosch Motronic hardware that runs the Porsche management system has its roots back in the F1 turbo days and is the most developed, advanced, and widely used commercially available management system available to manufacturers today. It is far and away a more advanced and modular platform than the Hitachi architecture in the GTR

As for the torque split, having just dynoed GTR vs 997 Turbo recently (as you well know Fungoolie) the Mainline AWD chassis dyno logged and plotted the way the AWD systems in each car work, and their response in a WOT transient at identical acceleration rates was similar, VERY similar, I can even graph them here for you if need be.

Facts are, the best electronics in the world - which Porsche have - is not going to overcome the fact the physics that the current 911 is still based on the poorly balanced Fuhrers Peoples Car of the 1930s. This is why 911s time has been, and is gone

Yes please Martin. Just put up the actual dynocharts to make it easier for all.

[Uwish]

What's truly amazing here is that the GT-R is 1 whole second slower than the new PDK turbo over the 1/4 mile drag.

That's one whole second !!!

The GT-R is heavier, less powerful, has narrower tires and one less ratio. Going into a track comparison with

those specs, you'd expect it to be slaughtered.

And yet not only does it keep up, it goes on to win.

Just mind bending !!!

You have no idea then how hard it is to be one second quicker over 400 meters.

Especially stock. The new PDK 911 can do a 10 stock. So modded should be good!

[666-GTR]

Interesting video

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/...245697&CT=V

nice

[Smitty213]

quite a nice vid