Nations Cup 2004: GODZILLA time!!

[SS8_Gohan]

Howdy,

just did some searching over at procar.com.au, see what's being said about the R34 GTR, there is actually one listed down for this years racing. I think it was the Jason White, R34 GTR Vspec II Nur that was rallying, then tweaked for track work, but not sure if it ever ran or not.

Anyways, these is some promosing talk about R34 GTR's running next year, comments from "Rossp" is someone who is like high up in Procar from what i could gather. And seemed to avoid some "parity" issue questions regarding the Mongrel cars... Anyways, i've edited the following thread to comments only pertaining to news on the R34, but i'll throw the link down if u wanna read through the whole thing.

cheers!

http://www.procar.com.au/forum/topic.asp?T...tle=Nations+Cup

* = new post.

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*Looki for Nissan NISMO skylines in NC next year[2 of them],and minimum grids of 25.

*Oh how awesome would it be to see a Nismo R34 in Group 1 with a few concessions to make it competitive (ala Monaro). I pray for the day.

Rossp No concessions needed the cars are all japan gt category 2 which align perfectly with NGT and therefore nations cup speeds.

*well, the news about the new grp 1 Porsche and R34 GTR sounds good, and will certainly add a little interest with Porsche being competitive again. Its a shame we're loosing those beautiful grp 1 Ferraris to Europe though. Any plans for a beefed up Ferrari to take it's place?

*I still don't like the Monaro being in there (it's not a sports car - and looks absurd sitting next to any other entry) but I've got to say Procar have done a good job with the parity this year, so if the Porsche and the R34 can both be up there competing for wins as well it would make for some great racing.

*An R34 would certainly add interest to the category. The Skyline has a large fan base, and with a top driver, would certainly add to the status of N.C

Wonder if Neil Crompton would do it?

*Agreed, there is a huge Skyline fan base out there who Im sure would love to see it.

(i thought these comments were rather good )

*thought the R34 GT-Rs in JGTC are in GT500 Class (Cat.1) and not N-GT spec. They run a non-production (yet) V6 Twin Turbo engine...

*Yes you're right. I think the only Nissans in JGTC Group 2 (GT300) are Silvias and 350Zs. Other possibilities include Toyota MRSs and Honda S2000s.

*Well, according to Rossp on another topic, the GTRs are looking pretty good - to the point that i beieve that Wayne Park automotive were already looking for a second driver with budget to run. If i rememer rightly, there was some mention about two teams??

it is beginning to shape up for 2004.. but even one GTR would be Awsome!!

*I think what Rossp meant is the Super Taikyu cars, as there are no GT-Rs in JGTC GT300 (cat.2), only 350Zs & S15s. The (over-qualified) GT500 GT-Rs are factory cars so I don't think NISMO will sell them to privateers.

A good "one season old" Super Taikyu car would be the Falken GT-R (Championship winner in 2001).

The team has switch to running only the 996 GT3 this year so the R34 is sitting idle...

*4 Monaros (2 x GRM), 4 BMWs (2 x Ademier Racing, formaly PHR), 2 Nissans (RPM, wayne park) Porsches from Richo, Wagg, Hills (Cirtek),Palmer and all the other porsche runners, A group 1 Ferrari for MCR of some description (simonsen), the Ultimate Mongrel: the Brabham Honda Judd v8 NSX,

Cricky back in a developed Viper, Hoperfully 1 or more TLA Lambos, Rod Wlsons Masser up to Group 1 spec as intended.

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And here is the post made by the "Rossp" guy about R34's next year...

Rossp GTR ,Well you would be interested in Wayne Park,s Nations Cup Nissan R34 program that he is working on for next year.

Apparently the cars are one season old R34,s from the All Japan GT series.[category 2 cars that align with Nations Cup Group One.]

For fast well engineered race cars these are a low budget way of running and they have been on the Nations Cup list for 2 years.

The maximum number of permanent franchises for each marque is 4 and so that would mean we could accomodate another professional 2 car team.

Got any ideas?

*Are the 2 cars already spoken for, or are they looking for commercial partners?

The Nations Cup will come along in leaps and bounds with these kinds of entries... (and being Nissans they shouldnt catch on fire all the time, unlike Ferraris )

Rossp Wayne Park is looking for commercial partners and a second driver with a budget from a sponsor who would be compatible with the team.

As for the second team we probably would advertise looking for expressions of interest from proven performers,who will run a professional effort.

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And before the Mongrel bashing starts... i agree, i hate em. I think if the Monaro's are going to continue to run (which they will, it's set in stone) with regards to parity, there should definitely be more restrictions placed on them. And YES they are a legal car in Nationcs Cup because they DON'T have to be productions cars. But it so happens that all the other cars ARE production, but they don't have to be.

cheers.

[hippy]

i've always wondered about this ... seeing those monaroes win them races on tv against the porsches etc etc ... is it really all bs ?? do they let the monaroes have whatever mod they want to have an advantage?? surely monaroes can't compete against porches?? well production anyways ...

[Rezz]

As for the Monaro fiasco, a better question would be "Why, when EVERY other manufacturer designs a sports car from the ground up *to be a sports car*, does Holden field an ungainly 1.8 tonne whale to compete against real sports cars... and bend the rules (under the table with CAMS or whoever) to do so?

[T0nyGTSt]

Here's the official page for the Garry Rogers Monaro:

http://www.grmotorsport.com.au/html/s02_ar...+1%3A46%3A52+AM

7 litre (427 cublic inch) Alloy Gen 111 V8 Chev Engine (GRM Built)

Hollinger 6 speed Sequential Gear Box

GRM built chassis with Chrome Molly Roll Cage

18 x 13 inch rear tyres and 18 x 11 front Dunlop tyres

Ohlins shock absorbers

9 inch differential

GRM desgined Carbon/Kevlar aero package

AP 6 piston mono block front calipers/4 piston mono block rear calipers. Front rotor is 375 x 35mm and rear 343 x 35mm

120 litre aircraft spec fuel cell with Siamese dry brakes

Motec on board engine and dash management system

4 on board air jacks

It obvious this thing has a much in common with a road Monaro as the JGTC Supra/Skyline has with their road counterparts.

Nothing would make me or US HERE AT SAU happier than to see a Skyline cream this Monaro which is faster than a V8 Supercar...

But if it came down to question an RB26DETT running at 7,500rpm for 24 hours or a 7.0 litre GenIII running at 5,000rpm for 24 hours you know which one is going to last the distance.

T.

[VIPERGTSR01]

i would still love to se the monaros win..... then the skylines

[Laurence]

GT racing has been about bending the rules since the dawn of time.

Look at Mercedes who won the FIA GT championship with the unhomologated CLK GT-R which went from a 7 litre V12 to a twin turbo V8, I think Sauber or Jaguar did the same in Group C, BMW with the V8 M3.

You name it. It is the golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Forget a Skyline in Nations Cup, it will never ever happen. Ross Palmer has cried wolf that many times about what cars will be on the grid.

Also Ross Palmer has said a bazillion times that Nations Cup is not production car racing.

A GT-R with stock turbos and boost would not compete with the other cars, so you would need to increase both, with is increasing the amount of air going into the engine which is a lot like increasing the capacity of the engine which is a lot like stroking an LS1 to 7 litres.

The only companies that design a sports car from the ground up are Porsche and Ferrari. A GT-R is a hotted up Skyline with better engine, better suspension, wider track, improved aerodynamics and styling. An M3 is the same for a 3-series. Sounds a lot like the Monaro to me.

Think of the population compared to Japan or Europe and you will see why they can't make production cars. The HRT 427C would have been great but it didn't happen because the numbers didn't add up. Hopefully a Pontiac GTO 427C comes to life and brings the Monaro with it!

The inability to appreciate anything without lots of cams and valves gives Skyline zealots a lot more in common with V8 knuckle draggers than they might like to admit.

[Rezz]

The only companies that design a sports car from the ground up are Porsche and Ferrari. A GT-R is a hotted up Skyline with better engine, better suspension, wider track, improved aerodynamics and styling. An M3 is the same for a 3-series. Sounds a lot like the Monaro to me...

...The inability to appreciate anything without lots of cams and valves gives Skyline zealots a lot more in common with V8 knuckle draggers than they might like to admit.

About your first comment, is a 7.0 litre Monaro available from the showroom? No?

And your second comment, who said anything about not being able to appreciate anything without lots of cams and valves...? I just don't appreciate Holden.

[Laurence]

OK, once again, for the slow ones Ross Palmer has said a bazillion times that Nations Cup is not production car racing.

[Rezz]

OK, once again, for the slow ones Ross Palmer has said a bazillion times that Nations Cup is not production car racing.

I ain't slow buddy... you quite clearly said the Monaro was like the GT-R, ie: a hotted up version of an already available car... except unlike the GT-R, the 7.0L Monaro will probably only be available in 1:18th scale from AutoArt.

[Laurence]

I seem to recall your previous post saying "so what is it doing in Nations Cup" but I guess I must have imagined that.

I know you are not slow, but you are being a touch obtuse. You can buy a stroker crank as easily as you can buy some bigger turbos. They do effectively the same thing. You can butcher the wheel arches on your GT-R like the Falken one that races in Europe which from what I can tell runs a 2.8l engine.

So show me the showroom when you can buy a GT-R like this one...

[Rezz]

Cool pics... but nah... you show me the showroom when you can buy a 7.0L Monaro. Actually, don't do that, I suddenly lost intrest.

Btw, I erased that sentence about the nations cup before you posted your 2nd last response, so no, you weren't imagining things.

[T0nyGTSt]

I think the point we're coming up with is that we're willing to let cars be modified to *SOME* extent for endurance, speed/spectacle purposes.

I would love to see a more 'N1 class' race - ie: Targa Tasmania class cars having a go.

However I disagree with stupid stuff like 7 litre motors, stuffing M5 motors in M3's, tube frame V8 supercar class bodies, $20,000 Hollinger gearboxes, 13" wide tyres and $10,000 monoblock Wilwood brakes.

This gives certains cars a silly advantage.

If Ross Palmer were to give preferential treatment to Skylines, ie. OS Giken 3.0 litre blocks running T88-34D singles on JGTC pushrod suspension and carbon panels etc. I would have the same objections.

There's no glory in bring a pistol to a knife fight nor do I enjoy watching Mike Tyson KO someone in 89 seconds.

I derive no pleasure in seeing a Monster "Skyline" whipping the hell out of everyone and winning with a 12 lap margin.

However it seems that many Holden fans love seeing their golden boy Brock beat everyone in what is a V8 Supercar.

T.

[sewid]

I watched a lot of Nations Cup this year and am a big fan of the series already. I always said to people that it would be great to see the GTR in it. So now I am stoked to hear it may happen for 2004.

Whatever happens, we need to put pressure on the right people to donate some money to get SAU sticker on the car somewhere

In fact we should start the fund now. I'd donate $100 towards it.

[sewid]

I think the point we're coming up with is that we're willing to let cars be modified to *SOME* extent for endurance, speed/spectacle purposes.

I would love to see a more 'N1 class' race - ie: Targa Tasmania class cars having a go.

However I disagree with stupid stuff like 7 litre motors, stuffing M5 motors in M3's, tube frame V8 supercar class bodies, $20,000 Hollinger gearboxes, 13" wide tyres and $10,000 monoblock Wilwood brakes.

This gives certains cars a silly advantage.

If Ross Palmer were to give preferential treatment to Skylines, ie. OS Giken 3.0 litre blocks running T88-34D singles on JGTC pushrod suspension and carbon panels etc. I would have the same objections.

There's no glory in bring a pistol to a knife fight nor do I enjoy watching Mike Tyson KO someone in 89 seconds.

I derive no pleasure in seeing a Monster "Skyline" whipping the hell out of everyone and winning with a 12 lap margin.

However it seems that many Holden fans love seeing their golden boy Brock beat everyone in what is a V8 Supercar.

T.

The monaro is said to be quicker than a V8 supercar. At least thats what I was hearing during the final race of this years Nations cup.

[PHaT MR30]

Jason Whites R34 is a damn competitive car, he competes in the octagon series down here and i think the only reason he doesn't win is he has had terrible problems with blown head gaskets and turbos. Oh but i should correct you its actually John his uncle who owns and races the car, Jason himself campaigns a 300zx which is a mad beast, however jason does drive it in Targa tasmania.

Their car would have to be one of the stockest in the octagon series, and they have the knowledge, money and experience to be on the podium come sunday.

I can't see why they shouldn't be able to race in Procar series

[zymotic]

What I don't understand is how you can enforce parity on these cars that are worlds apart?

How do u compare a R34GTR to a Monaro, such different cars, how do u try to make them equal.

[SS8_Gohan]

Parity relates to intake restrictions and weight from what i can gather. But different types of cars have different parity areas. Turbo cars can have boost restrictions, and also some sort of restriction with blow-off valves.

Other cars can have RPM restrictions, i think there are a few different ways to makes things a little more even.

And it regards to putting a "stock" M5 engine in an M3, the M3 GTR, it's actually a BMW which u can buy... making it vastly different to the Mongrel cars.

Gojira is right, and like i said at the start of the thread, Nations Cup is not production car racing. That's why John Bowe was rightly having a go at the Mongrel in the first 24hr, it's not in the spirit of Nations Cup. All the other cars u can buy, yes they have been tweaked but not tweaked in such a way in that they have been built from the ground up, with a known body shell thrown on top. Really, u'r admitting defeat. U have nothing that could compete, so how about we just make something up?

The Falken GTR pic i put up, has standard GTR guards, and is the one that will hopefully make it out next year.

I think the whole point with the Mongrel cars is that yes, they are legal in that they don't have to be a production car but i mean come on, u can at least start with one of ur own engines!!, or start with ur own suspension, just something remotely Holden besides the shell. M3 GTR runs a practically stock M5 4.9ltr V8 but yet has more restrictions placed on it than the Mongrel does??? :confused:

I don't think nations cup should be "purpose built" cars. I think they should be highly modified cars from ones already in ur stable. Or, someone should step up to the plate now and make their own stupid over-the-top car. Something that weighs f*ck all but is packing say.... the BMW 6ltr V12... which oh wait, happens to be a production engine! fancy that... 760il or McLaren anyone? Hell why not just take one of those small "kit" cars and putting some stupidly big engine in it. Easily make a car quicker than the Mongrels, and use a heap less fuel, sounds pretty good for an enduro...

anyways, i hope Ross Palmer isn't speaking shit and we can see a 600hp R34 GTR (same power as Mongrel) mixing it up next year. I'm sure u can make a pretty bullet proof 600hp R34 and the grab urself a good driver...

[Rezz]

My thoughts exactly Gohan... and yes, the Super Taikyu GT-R you posted up is a different specification to the Nurburgring 24hr car.

[Kaido_RR]

hey, just a heads up u can buy the 7.1L Monaro,

but it isn't called a monaro it is somesort of HSV with 427 in it, similar to the monaro use in the race

[NickR33]

The reason I and most people I know watch nations cup is to see exotic cars racing, the types of cars you don't see everywhere... racing head to head... different cars with different setups etc (hard to do fairly)

If I wanted to see a 600hp commodore I would watch the supercar series!

I would like to see the Monaro beat a RUF modified porche or a nismo GTR or a Brabus Benz. In fact who gives a f**k about stupid fat commodores... I want to see something different!

Oh and 7 litres!!! Thats a bit over the top isn't it.

My 2c