2010 F1 Season

[sav man]

And the old qualifying cars, with grenage engines, blanked off panels for less drag...etc

how much money did they spend to get the engines to last for 2-3 races?

Edited March 17, 2010 by sav man

[sh@un]

go back to the days when Ferrari used to go through 150 or so engines a season?

[Marco-R34GTT]

Why is that such an issue??? Is it so evil that a company makes the necessary investments in order to procure and protect future prospects?? Why then in the 80's didn't McLaren buy Brands Hatch, or Williams, when they won a swag in the 90's, why didn't they buy Silverstone??? Ferrari owns Mugello and Fiorano, they both have the proper facilities to allow Ferrari to test very frequently and to run dedicated and complex R&D.. Why should they be vilified for that? Isn't that what you'd call commercially and competitively prudent and wise?? Dietrich Materzitsch (sp?) bought the A1-Ring hoping to use it as Red Bull's testing facility before the testing ban was put in place, in fact he still owns it, obviously the man knows what it is and what it takes to run a successful F1 team, or maybe Adrian Newey gave him the hint... Either way, Ferrari were simply geniuses to plan and build their dedicated testing facilities, it put them ahead and won them the bag of success they truly deserved in the early 2000's. Quite simply it was earned and deserved. Maybe other teams should have heeded the signs instead of bitching and whining about costs and Ferrari/Schumacher dominance...

Seriously though, if they must cap it I'd be happy to see 30 days of testing... At least it would force teams to be a little strategic in its usage throughout the season... Go hell for leather at the start? Use it evenly over the year? or put all the eggs in one basket and save it till the last?? Now THAT would be a worthy concept..

- Base 2000 regs (Slightly larger front wings tho, but not as big as current spec ones).

- Slicks (Last years sizes but with LARGER rears to big back grip balance, as opposed to making the fronts narrower, which we now see has failed miserably).

- Keep V8 engines.

- Ban a few more exotic metals for engine building.

- The FIA have mandated a strict limit on bore size, maybe mandate con-rod size too?? Dunno, a half-baked idea on my behalf.

- Engine to last 2 weekends, tranny's 3, promoting 'some' longevity is a good thing I will admit, but it should not be the dominating factor, performance should be the star of the show.

- Piss off RPM limit NOW! Cars maybe in the draft, but hit max revs and struggle to accelerate... Yeah, smart one FIA!!!

- Make the designers fit a big wing-mount, roughly 2 inches wide, which sits at the bottom of the engine cover and supports the rear-wing. This 'blocker-device' would create a fair bit of drag in order to encourage a larger 'draft' for the following car to follow.

- I actually like the idea of being able to mechanically adjust ride-height during pit-stops.. Would entice more varied strategy.

- Bring back re-fuelling, but increase fuel rig speed from 12 l/ps to 15 l/ps, put a bit more pressure on the boys on the rattle guns.

- Just for the records I'm happy they pissed off wheel covers, they were a total sham.

- Also, does anyone else think the extended engine covers are a bit of a joke??? Ban em I say!

* Lastly, some food for thought... Has anyone actually considered that the reducing of the rear wing would have actually reduced total drag produced by the leading car? Less drag would equal a smaller draft for the following car??? That can't be good surely... I agree on decreasing rear diffuser size to either 125mm or 150 or 140 mil... Maybe 125mm is TOO small, but a reduction from 175mm is necessary I agree..

F1, if you can't take the heat, GET OF THE KITCHEN!!! Formula 1 should be NO PLACE for MEDIOCRITY! That is what NASCAR is for lol, and they pass too frequently for their own benefit!

[TALBO]

go back to the days when Ferrari used to go through 150 or so engines a season?

At least they make their own engines, not like that british team who steals intellectual property from Ferrari....

[djr81]

Why is that such an issue??? Is it so evil that a company makes the necessary investments in order to procure and protect future prospects?? Why then in the 80's didn't McLaren buy Brands Hatch, or Williams, when they won a swag in the 90's, why didn't they buy Silverstone??? Ferrari owns Mugello and Fiorano, they both have the proper facilities to allow Ferrari to test very frequently and to run dedicated and complex R&D.. Why should they be vilified for that? Isn't that what you'd call commercially and competitively prudent and wise?? Dietrich Materzitsch (sp?) bought the A1-Ring hoping to use it as Red Bull's testing facility before the testing ban was put in place, in fact he still owns it, obviously the man knows what it is and what it takes to run a successful F1 team, or maybe Adrian Newey gave him the hint... Either way, Ferrari were simply geniuses to plan and build their dedicated testing facilities, it put them ahead and won them the bag of success they truly deserved in the early 2000's. Quite simply it was earned and deserved. Maybe other teams should have heeded the signs instead of bitching and whining about costs and Ferrari/Schumacher dominance...

There is a slight difference. McLaren, Williams are private companies.

Ferrari, on the other hand, used to run those FIAT stickers for a reason.

F1, if you can't take the heat, GET OF THE KITCHEN!!! Formula 1 should be NO PLACE for MEDIOCRITY! That is what NASCAR is for lol, and they pass too frequently for their own benefit!

Actually, on average, F1 is mediocre.

[Marco-R34GTT]

There is a slight difference. McLaren, Williams are private companies.

Ferrari, on the other hand, used to run those FIAT stickers for a reason.

Actually, on average, F1 is mediocre.

1: I am well aware they aren't and never were constructors.. However surely in past times they must've been better off in pocket (not that it looks like McLaren is struggling for a quid tho), Peter Sauber proved that privateers can moderately succeed with prudent management and yet make massive investments for the future. His infamous wind-tunnel in Hinwill is regarded as being one of the best in the motorsport-world. It in fact reserved the jobs of his Swiss employees when he sold to BMW, it didn't break him and it served BMW pretty well thereafter. It was mainly BMW's focus on kers that undid them last year (like the Fez and Renault), prior to that though BMW to be fair were nipping at the heels of the big two.. So obviously Peter Sauber's investment worked to some measurable degree.. Obviously it isn't the same as buying a race track, but the principle remains the same. In my previous post I did mention Dietrich Materzitsch, unless I'm mistaken, RBR aren't a manufacturer and is a 'privateer team' as you pointed out in regards to McLaren and Williams...

I agree with the 2nd point too, definitely post 2000 it has suffered quite a disappointing decline...

Edited March 17, 2010 by Marco-R34GTT

[djr81]

1: I am well aware they aren't and never were constructors.. However surely in past times they must've been better off in pocket (not that it looks like McLaren is struggling for a quid tho), Peter Sauber proved that privateers can moderately succeed with prudent management and yet make massive investments for the future. His infamous wind-tunnel in Hinwill is regarded as being one of the best in the motorsport-world. It in fact reserved the jobs of his Swiss employees when he sold to BMW, it didn't break him and it served BMW pretty well thereafter. It was mainly BMW's focus on kers that undid them last year (like the Fez and Renault), prior to that though BMW to be fair were nipping at the heels of the big two.. So obviously Peter Sauber's investment worked to some measurable degree.. Obviously it isn't the same as buying a race track, but the principle remains the same. In my previous post I did mention Dietrich Materzitsch, unless I'm mistaken, RBR aren't a manufacturer and is a 'privateer team' as you pointed out in regards to McLaren and Williams...

Yes but Red Bull have a rather large income stream (ie those crap energy drink things) whereas Williams & McLaren (to a lesser extent) don't have much other than sponsorship. You need to remember the huge money both teams invested in their facilities. Williams in the 90's & McLaren more recently. The McLaren HQ is, by all accounts, breathtaking. The Williams one was, in its day, head and shoulders above anyone else.

I agree with the 2nd point too, definitely post 2000 it has suffered quite a disappointing decline...

Actually if you look at the grids in the 80's you will see that more than half the cars were absolute rubbish. The best season preview assessment of a car I ever read went as follows: Eurobrun. Absolutely & totally shite.

F1 has, in recent years, been much closer than historically was the case.

[Roy]

See Bernie is back pushing his "short-cut" idea to spice up the racing and help overtaking. FFS these muppets have no idea. WHy not cal it Super Mario racing, or maybe introduce a wrecking ball that swings accross the track every now and then...

And these farking idiots have made a fortune out of F1

[djr81]

WHy not cal it Super Mario racing, or maybe introduce a wrecking ball that swings accross the track every now and then...

I understand your point, but I still reckon I would watch that.

[Marlin]

Whats the "shortcut idea"?

[TALBO]

Allowing drivers to cut chicanes or corners a set number of times for the GP to allow overtaking and then being overtaken again or some shit like this.......

[Roy]

He wants to have little shortcuts accross corners that drivers get to use a certain amount of times per race. If they are being held up then they just fly on through...Its BS. Then you wont see any passing. Just guys running up the side road...farking Bernie., will some pretty young thing hurry up and feed Bernie too much viagra and give the bastard a heart attack. How can so called intelligent people who have been around motorsport all their lives be so farking stoopid and out of touch.

Where is Kim Jong Il when i need him "Why are people so farking stooopid!, why arent they intelligent like me" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVL6ZJoWGxw

[sh@un]

At least they make their own engines, not like that british team who steals intellectual property from Ferrari....

cracka puh-leez; it's not like Ferrari are in any way a shining example of sainthood

do you really wanna have that argument? apparently when some underling inside McLaren does something wrong, the FIA holds Ron Dennis personally accountable (obviously it'll be Whitmarsh now), yet when the TEAM PRINCIPAL of Renault orders one of his seat-warmers to have a stack, Renault is in no way responsible for that

and it's got nothing at all to do with the fact that a Renault withdrawl would have left F1 with no dual manufacturer|engine supplier team bar Ferrari (until the recent advent of Merc GP, of course)

p.s the shortcut idea is some dumb-ass shit

[Roy]

Actually, thas a good poit. Engine manufacturers. We have Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari and Cosworth. Hadnt stopped to consider we only have four. There was a time where along with Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Cosworth we had Honda, Toyota, Peugot, Mugen, BMW. There are others but, they are the ones who have been around the most since the 90s

[sh@un]

and the Cosworth engine looks to be a bit shit at the moment, too...

ima go out on a small, shaky, treacherous limb and say that the McLarens with be a full in-house effort by the time the engine supply deal with Mercedes runs out

[Roy]

They were looking at buyign BMWs engine program late last year. Dont know what the outcome was

[sh@un]

Well they have scratch-built their own road car engine now

[Roy]

Counts for nothing in my eyes. Half the supercars out there are powered by old Merc V12s, Mustange V8s etc with forced induction. BMW couldnt build an F1 engine that was as good as the Merc, Ferrari or even Renault. Wasnt as reliable as the Toyota etc etc so worlds apart building a limited build V8 and an F1 engine

[sh@un]

But then again, knowing how thorough Anal Ron is...

I've no doubt that McLaren have the engineering nous and production facilities to make it happen if they're over being engine customers.

[Marco-R34GTT]

The BMW engines were monsters in the early 2000's IIRC, just Montoya got a little bit loco and blew them all up! Ralf not so much, but I do recall the BMW engines that sat behind the Williams cars certainly had some grunt! Enough to worry Ferrari and McLaren.. Also for the record, I don't think you could hardly add Peugeot in there, they bailed at the end of 2000 and left dear old Alain on a bit of a limb... However, it is a shame they canned their F1 programme..