2010 F1 Season

[Roy]

Serious question..... How many of you guys that think Vettel is to blame also think Schumacher should've yeilded to Hill in the 94 Adelaide GP?

Remember before you answer that Vettel's rear wheel is what made contact with Mark's front wheel.

Can't see any honest responses somehow.....

Ok, i dont know how this will pan out. But i dont think Schuey did all that much wrong back in 94. He went off and came back on took the normal line to the apex when Hill jammed his nose in. I think it was a racing accident and Hill was way too impatient. But he saw a gap and went for it. Icant remember exactly but i think it was his Japan move that was far worse. But the difference was it was wheel to wheel racing in a corner, Not driving in a straight line coming up to a corner

I think Vettel made two mistakes on the weekend, he picked the wrong side to pass Webber and then cut accross his bow too soon.

So, how does that read in your eyes?

[DRD-00F]

I was 8 in 94

[hrd-hr30]

Serious question..... How many of you guys that think Vettel is to blame also think Schumacher should've yeilded to Hill in the 94 Adelaide GP?

Remember before you answer that Vettel's rear wheel is what made contact with Mark's front wheel.

Can't see any honest responses somehow.....

x3 for not even remotely the same situation.

my 2c is this - if you want to try and squeeze someone once you have half a car in front;

a) make sure they have enough time to react to it

b) make sure you are not alongside someone who isn't likely to be pushed around

Webber had already cut the kid a brake - anyone else would have been run onto the grass before they got that far up. Don't tell me he didn't take it easy on his teammate! lol

[Marco-R34GTT]

Formula1.com has a poll at the bottom of the first page on who is to blame.

Surprisingly close. Do all German F1 fans wear coke bottle glasses?

The Crash.com poll is about 82.something Vettel's fault.

[Roy]

Well with all the talk in the press. Webber says it all himself.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/mot...r-1225873780886

Again, he impresses with his maturity and willingness to follow what is in the interests of the team.

What will be real interesting is what happens next when they share a bit of road. $1000 says Vettel puts Webber to the sword

[Beer Baron]

I'm surprised Horner actually allowed the team to fix Webber's car when he came in to the box - "Now Mark, see what you've done? Sebby's crying. You've made Seb cry. Say you're sorry to Seb for not getting out of his way. No nose cone for you!"

lol. too funny. sadly probably not far off the mark either.

Completely different situation. Schumacher's car was already disabled, he had no chance of holding Hill off. Hill was also well past Schumacher, further than Vettel was. You're also talking about a slow corner rather than a fast straight. Schumacher deliberately took Hill out because he knew he had no chance of retaking the position.

Webber had a chance of maintaining the lead because the upcoming left was followed by a right that he would have had the inside line for. The same didn't apply to Schumacher. Vettel hit Webber while Webber was driving in a straight line. Schumacher hit Hill in a desperate dive going into a corner that had no chance of success.

Webber and Vettel both had options for taking/keeping the lead. Schumacher had none and deliberately took Hill out. There's no comparison.

exactly.

my hope now is that mark can hang on this year at RBR and take a WDC and negotiate a good deal for next year with another team. ferrari would be good. they are down at the moment but sure to bounce back sooner or later. mark has given a lot to RBR and was with them when they were shithouse and helped develop the success they enjoy now. he has surely had a big part in bringing the little turd that rear ended him in japan along too.

I think the real problem is this. RBR gave their drivers a coded message which was "switch places at the front, we want vettel to take the win" dressed up as "vettel, you have one more lap of optimum engine mapping need to use it. mark: please turn your engine down we need to conserve fuel... hint hint" understandably mark probably felt that was a bit shit since so far this season he's had more wins and more poles than his team mate and at that point was leading the championship and on equal points with vettel. so he quite reasonably thinks why should the team conspire to put mark behind vettel? I mean mark took the bloody pole in qualy (despite vettel dicking around with their order), mark held off hamilton when the maclaren was really threatening so why should he even be worried about his team mate passing him. so like I say RBR are blaming webber not because he was at fault in the crash (he clearly wasn't) they are blaming him because they issued team orders (supposedly banned in F1) and mark refused to follow them. that's why vettel made the "WTF" gesture as he was expecting webber to not only leave him a gap but probably to move right out of his way and lift off the throttle too. this is why they are dirty, mark got the 'move over mate' call and refused to take it instead deciding if vettel was going to pass he'd have to do it properly (which of course vettel couldn't).

[nismoman]

^^ Spot on Richard.

Hit the nail on the head right there me thinks.

[Noddy]

Well with all the talk in the press. Webber says it all himself.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/mot...r-1225873780886

Again, he impresses with his maturity and willingness to follow what is in the interests of the team.

What will be real interesting is what happens next when they share a bit of road. $1000 says Vettel puts Webber to the sword

I love wathcing and reading Marks diplomatic response's. The artical above and the post race interview in particular. I was amused to watch Hamilton and Webber while Button was being interviewed. Hamilton was doing the hand gesture cars below the height of the desk, and looked like he was commentating too. One hand moves to the left and partialy overtakes the other, then moves right suddenly. Mark and Hamilton make eye contact again with Webber nodding in aggreement. Mark then makes his measured and concidered comments and response's.

On the otherhand, Vettell gets wisked away by his minders, media is told to buzz off in a very forcefull way for F1. Let the boy speak and learn how to deal with the media on his own! I want to hear what he has to say for himself, not what he's been told to say. BB's post hits it home by bringing the coded message to light. Well spotted.

I fear Mark will be getting his marching orders from RBR before seasons end if he continues to make an honest charge for the world crown.... and while also keeping the snott rag crout equally honest.

[TALBO]

Completely different situation. Schumacher's car was already disabled, he had no chance of holding Hill off. Hill was also well past Schumacher, further than Vettel was. You're also talking about a slow corner rather than a fast straight. Schumacher deliberately took Hill out because he knew he had no chance of retaking the position.

Webber had a chance of maintaining the lead because the upcoming left was followed by a right that he would have had the inside line for. The same didn't apply to Schumacher. Vettel hit Webber while Webber was driving in a straight line. Schumacher hit Hill in a desperate dive going into a corner that had no chance of success.

Webber and Vettel both had options for taking/keeping the lead. Schumacher had none and deliberately took Hill out. There's no comparison.

It is a different situation with different circumstances but that's not why I asked the question. I asked the question because I'm interested in how much of the anti Vettel is aussies being patriotic.

In regards the Schuey incident, no knows for sure that his car was in fact damaged and you might want to have another look at it if you think Hill was further alongside MS than Seb was Mark. If comparisons were made however, why does Hill have the right to make an ambitious pass up the inside but Vettel not? Whether they're on a straight or corner imo has no bearing on it because both tried ambitious moves that were destined for disaster.

I'm not looking for an argument just conversing, but I think Roy is pretty much spot on. Only part I blame Webber for is why he didn't allow Seb room, knowing he was much faster and again I'm not suggesting that Mark should've just yeilded for no good reason other than the fact he was slower because of he was saving fuel.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Hill and Vettel are in the same boat here. Both had performance ans speed advantages and choked, threw the car into a poor place and attempted a pass at the wrong time.. At least in Vettel's case he was actually past Webber, Hill just threw it into the inside and hoped and prayed that Schumi wouldn't close the door, which he did... However both were hugely anxious and impatient, that cannot be refuted..

Edited June 1, 2010 by Marco-R34GTT

[scarface_au]

It is a different situation with different circumstances but that's not why I asked the question. I asked the question because I'm interested in how much of the anti Vettel is aussies being patriotic.

If you don't trust the Aussies, ask everyone else. Maybe Aussies are more in Mark's favour but the vast majority of F1 fans all over the world agree that it was Vettel's fault.

[FineLine]

I doubt any driver in f1 history has had as many disapointments or bad luck as Mark Weber.

He still managed to overcome it all and rise to the top of the pile. I doubt this incident will affect his attitude or the way he approaches the next race.

Captain chin b/s..... Captain cool that bloke

[Duncan]

lol having the fastest car but at least 1/2sec does not make Webber any less of a hack. Vetool is clearly a faster driver most of the time, Webber is just having some long overdue luck.

Lots of one eyed aussie fans in here I fear

[Roy]

Jog on Duncan....you are just a knocker I know Webber isnt the greatest, but he is better then many out there and at least as good as some that have won WDCs.

I am not convinced it was blatant pit wall orders that were to play out in Vetools favour, maybe indirectly as a result of circumstance.

But Webber is getting the job done with his car, nobody expected him to be near Vettel over a season, yet he has been there for the team on pole or the front row every GP except Bahrain. 6 front row starts, 2 race wins, a second and a 3rd isnt too bad a conversion rate out of 7 races.

I expected Webber to not accept a speed difference and bust a gut trying to bridge any performance gap. I think he is doing exactly that. Now whether he stumbles mid season like he always does around the 10-14th GPs who knows I hope not

[waxracing]

Interesting that webber had less fuel but he pitted a lap later then vettel

[Jetwreck]

got to laugh at Helmut's response in this article.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/webber-c...f-1225874030074

Was it not a good strategy for Mark to keep Seb on the dirty stuff?

Here's a thought....If it was Hammi or anyone else that had done that to Mark what would they all be saying then?

Edited June 1, 2010 by Jetwreck

[si]

[Kozeyekan]

Interesting that webber had less fuel but he pitted a lap later then vettel

Um..... There's no refueling this year. It doesn't matter when they pit in regards to fuel levels.

Webber isn't getting lucky, he's just avoiding getting UNlucky.

A few years ago, Seb woul have bumped him and Webber would've been the one thrown out of the race.

anyway, the regs f the FIA clearly state that you can't crowd a driver towards the inside or outside of a curve, which is what Vettel was in the process of doing (appendix L for those interested) and that there can be penalties for doing it. I would love for there to be an official reprimand or something, just so we have a ruling on who was at fault.

Can anyone name a WDC winner from the last 20 or 30 years who would have pulled over for their team mate?

Schumi? You gotta be kidding.

Senna? Hell no.

Mansell, Prost, Alonso, Button, Hamilton? Nope.

Raikonnen? No way.

Hakkinen? Nup

Hill? Heh. Nope.

Lauda? Not even

Villeneuve? Probably the most likely, as in if he was driving a car with three wheels, low on fuel and his dad was in the team mate car.

Who WOULD let him through?

Well, Barrichello did. And how many WDC's does he have? About as many as me, despite spending four years in a WDC worthy car at Ferrari, and one at Brawn, he got nothing.

If roles were reversed, Seb would not have even given as much room as Mark did, in fact he'd have swerved all over the road to avoid being passed, rules be damned.

I can only hope that Webber gets a better drive next season, and that Vettel leaves asap, so RBR can realise how they screwed the pooch here. Vettel can't handle the pressure, he caved, and was heading that way all week.

I've got $50 riding on Vettel not finishing in Montreal. He's on tilt, and unlikely to improve because of this.

[hrd-hr30]

I think Mark has lifted his game this month. I'm not a huge patriotic Weber fan, in fact I used to think he was a bit of a hack, but its hard to deny he's at the peak of his game and faster than Vettel now. 3 races in a row is more than just luck.

Only part I blame Webber for is why he didn't allow Seb room

except that he did leave Seb room!

[waxracing]

opps didnt know about the non refuling