2860-5 Too Much Lag

[JonnoHR31]

it allways happens every now and then. my last workshop tune was rushed and way too conservative. so i started doing my own tuning, its a good learning experience and you get a much better tune because your not in a rush. not to mention how much cheaper it is

[Swiper the Fox]

What does that have to do with the service they provided to this guy/Travis?

For an average joe blo it seems they dont give a f**k.

Unless you throw money at them, they simply dont seem to care.

You know what they told him? theyre words were " haha we told you , you need a EBC, cams and cam gears " when he went back to tell them its too laggy and what can be the cause of the problem, they werent interested in giving him some idea's or spend an extra 5/10min talking to him about it, or even quickly looking at it.

So it seems to me they are not interested in even looking at it unless he spends some more money on those items they mentioned, and even then, how much can those items bring the lag down? i doubt 2000rpm by what others are saying it should be.

They had the car, they dyno'd it THEY are professionals, yet they seen nothing wrong! or if they did, they couldnt be bothered calling him/talking to him to see if they can both come to a mutual agreement to sort it out.

You know how much they charged him for that tune? i'll tell you, $750, and now they want to charge him more and to buy some more gear!

$750 for a tune!!! and all they got to help him with was " buy cams, cam gears and EBC " wow...

I mean, sure, i dont think its laggy because they tuned it, it was laggy pre tune, im just annoyed at the fact they didnt do or say anything about it and or give him the option to try and fix it while there ( now getting the runaround ).

Example, if the turbo's are buggered, would you still tune it and play dumb, or would you call the customer up and save him some money and try and get the turbos rebuilt or at least an option etc?

If they have done hundreds and hundreds of these turbo setups and seen the lag that it has, it should of rang bells, and they could of went a different way about it, but they decided to take his money instead.

Tuners these days dont give a farq, they just want your money and be done with, they probably inserted a tune from another similar setup, did an hour if that on top and there you go, take it, she's all good mate...

Been there done that, i feel for this guy ( who i know btw, as some of you may ask yourself how i know all this stuff ).

I know i'll most likely get bagged here for saying all that, im fine with that but to hear how all this went is just way to wrong for me to say nothing, customer service goes a long way in my books.

Sorry to offend the die hard fans, but this is one from me.

So they already told him what was need before it went on the dyno...that wasn't done...the car didn't meet the customers expectations and you blame them for that?...Simple rule here...if your not prepared to listen to the experts and do the things/spend the money where required then you really have only yourself (or your friend in this instance) to blame. As you said after it went on they said..."i told you so". Its always the guys trying to do things on the cheap at CRD who always whinge and its the ones who are prepared to spend the money and follow their instructions that get the results. Customer service? mate its the modified car industry...harden up for gods sake...its not a GTR owners counselling club where they waste their time chatting over coffee. Their no nonsense straight to the point style might not suit everyone, but if if want tea and bisciuts and a good yarn maybe your mate should have headed out west to the nearest CWA meeting. If you want things done right though you would be hard pressed to find a better workshop in Sydney. The 3 workshops in this country id ever take any of my cars to all have this same approach...no bullshit straight shoooters...CRD, Godzilla Motorsport and Racepace.

This is the same reason i pick and chose my work...as soon as someone who wants an engine done doesn't want to spend the money to make it work properly and reliably then i suggest to them that they should probably look somewhere else to get it done. My reputation and piece of mind are not worth short-cuts and people who are not prepared to listen.

$750 for a tune is great value if you have one of the countries best doing it....some guys with limited experience at some other workshops charge over a grand!. I was paying $750 for a tune there nearly 7 years ago...so Jim hasn't even put his prices up. People used to ask me how i could afford to get CRD to tune my car all the time, i always replied...i cant afford not to go to CRD...engine failures are expensive.

Edited December 23, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[T04GTR]

with out stepping on to many toes here, 2560-5's coming on at 6500? please. i agree there is something not right. but evan 5000rpm is to laggy.

for it to come on at 6500 it should make 850atw, wich im sure it dont. so,, what was the advise from the tuner? get cams and an ebc etc etc. ive got my tuner and ive stuck with them for the last 5 years and have never been let down like this.

they arnt gt3240's are they? if so then that would be ok i spose

[Swiper the Fox]

with out stepping on to many toes here, 2560-5's coming on at 6500? please. i agree there is something not right. but evan 5000rpm is to laggy.

for it to come on at 6500 it should make 850atw, wich im sure it dont. so,, what was the advise from the tuner? get cams and an ebc etc etc. ive got my tuner and ive stuck with them for the last 5 years and have never been let down like this.

they arnt gt3240's are they? if so then that would be ok i spose

I agree Dave something is not right...that is if whats being stated is fact. My T51R SPL BB comes on earlier than these!

Edited December 23, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Lukas 33]

On the tuning side of things $750 is about right a tune. I reckon its actually a good price. Ive been quoted MUCH more than that for a tune.

HOWEVER if I paid that much for a tune I would expect it to be spot on. And honestly its not about a cup of tea and some scone with customer service. But listening to what the person wants wouldnt go astray. The last mechanics I had my car at did not do a single thing I wanted.

[Rant]

I asked them to wire in a 60amp relay for both my fuel pumps and to adjust the fuel pressure........they wired in a walbro 255 internal pump........WHY.....we thought you needed it (coz the 040 was too shit apparently). They did not rewire it properly so it was not getting the full voltage. They just dropped it in and connected it up to stock wiring......apparently according to them that is what I asked for.

Every single thing I asked for did not get done properly. They suspected my water pump to be leaking slightly so they said they would pull it off to check the gasket (?). So I told them over the phone if they are going to pull it off I will throw on a new water pump while its easy to get at. When I got to the mechanics later that day they said "oh you have a new waterpump? We just used from gasket goo to stop the leak and put it back on". Thanks for all that wasted money in labour wankers.

Everytime I rang them up to see how the car was going or to get the total cost so far I always got "I will call you later this afternoon before I finish work to let you know". That happened every day for the last week it was with them. After the weekend passed I got a text message on monday morning being told "Your car is now finished and is ready to be picked up".

Note: Still hadnt relocated the power steering resevoir, wired in the relay for fuel system, tuned the car or done pretty much anything that I asked for

After a lovely drive to mechanics to pay my $1500 bill to drive home my dirty 11 volt walbro dusty and bird shit ridden skyline I opened the drivers door and found that all their dirty seats covers were still laying around all in the car and the ECU was not tucked back behind the kicked panel put was just laying all pulled out on the passenger floor.

Anyway enough of my rant. My point is I know modified car scene is a straight cut to the point business and I like that. HOWEVER some common courtesy is at LEAST expected. You dont have to chat about the weather or a cup of coffee but at least talk to someone for f**k sake

[/Rant]

Cheers

Lukas

[rockabilly]

hi guys, not posted for a while but have been nosying on here..i dont want to upset anyone on here, but why is it time and time again you guys buy the wrong turbos for there applications?.1.2 bar? the turbos wont do anything until 1.5 bar. get some boost in them and there will be no lag. we run an rb26 here with -5 at 1.7 bar there is 1 bar at 3200rpm and full boost by 4000rpm. you would have been better buying -7 or gtss for the power you are making. remember lifes starts at 2bar of boost..lol. bernie.. get them wound up or change for smaller ones and get them wound up then enjoy the car for what it is..

[R31Nismoid]

^ it's what i've been saying for ages.

-9's are what people want for 300-340rwkw. -5's are 400rwkw range of fun... if you only wany 350, settle for 20rwkw less and fun sized response!

[l_uk3y]

If your hitting boost at 6000rpm then something is either wrong, or you would be expecting massive power levels from a very large turbo.

Regarding quality of tuners besides all the good hype you hear about croydon. They suggested a few options to fix the problem, have you looked into these? Wouldnt hurt to get the timing checked, itd be great if it was a simple fix.

I remember when I got my first tune at Racepace. Ben asked me who installed the Blitz EBC after he had finished tuning, I said me, he said. We couldnt get it performing right so we have disconnected it, replaced it with this (a piece of piece of aluminum tube with a hole in it). Here is a boost curve showing how they compared (much earlier boost + held on better at the top). I walked away thinking, well I cant argue with that.

Perhaps Croydon could have done more (without knowing the whole story), but if they suggested what avenues you should look into, then maybe that would be a good idea. Its not like they have never seen an RB before.

Luke

[arabian_drifter]

whats the latest with your car man

you got her all sorted out yet?

[trvgtr]

whats the latest with your car man

you got her all sorted out yet?

Hi finally got the car back from croydon yesterday. Jim had the car for 2 weeks and re-checked everything i had previously checked. He ran the car on the dyno with actuaors closed, exhaust off ect and showed me the dyno print out. I was amazed to see the difference with the exhaust off, boost came on strong at 5000rpm (1500rpm earlier!!!) I did try this but obviously you cant see the difference on the road while trying to drive, thats the beauty of having a dyno i guess!!! He also fitted new eboost 2 and explained to me that installing cam gears will also help alot and gave me a money back guarantee!!! I have purchased some cam gears which i will fit up next week and take back to croydon for another tune. Jim was very helpful at crd and was very shocked at how cheap he was ($700 for eboost install and setup, and 2 weeks worth of diagnoses!!!) will keep you posted after the cam gears are fitted up

cheers

Edited February 3, 2010 by trvgtr

[choyda]

Can you post your dyno sheet up?

[NZM.031]

travis... have a chat to bakes.. his is pulling 300awkw at 1.3bar (wanted to get cams this year and go for 350kw), was tuned by scott at insight, and it comes on hard at 4500rpm, pin you to the seat kind of hard... its only laggy if you let the revs drop down.. keep it up in the happy spot (4500-8000rpm) and its fantastic.

[STATUS]

travis... have a chat to bakes.. his is pulling 300awkw at 1.3bar (wanted to get cams this year and go for 350kw), was tuned by scott at insight, and it comes on hard at 4500rpm, pin you to the seat kind of hard... its only laggy if you let the revs drop down.. keep it up in the happy spot (4500-8000rpm) and its fantastic.

Not to be rude but they generally pull 300kw @ around 1.1bar and getting 350 on std cams should be fine.

[R31Nismoid]

^ 400rwkw even

Oh and i made what, 280rwkw on just over 1bar with GT-SS (-9's).

-5's are a bad choice for 300rwkw, to much lag for the power output.

[trvgtr]

Can you post your dyno sheet up?

hey, yeah will post up dyno shets when i go back and get it tuned with the new cam gears on it

[trvgtr]

travis... have a chat to bakes.. his is pulling 300awkw at 1.3bar (wanted to get cams this year and go for 350kw), was tuned by scott at insight, and it comes on hard at 4500rpm, pin you to the seat kind of hard... its only laggy if you let the revs drop down.. keep it up in the happy spot (4500-8000rpm) and its fantastic.

hey mate, yeah i made 330awks on 1.3 bar with stock cams and stock cam gears, full boost at 5000rpm,jim told me once i get the cam gears on there should be around the 4500rpm mark or less, cant wait!!!

[Beer Baron]

hi guys, not posted for a while but have been nosying on here..i dont want to upset anyone on here, but why is it time and time again you guys buy the wrong turbos for there applications?.1.2 bar? the turbos wont do anything until 1.5 bar. get some boost in them and there will be no lag. we run an rb26 here with -5 at 1.7 bar there is 1 bar at 3200rpm and full boost by 4000rpm. you would have been better buying -7 or gtss for the power you are making. remember lifes starts at 2bar of boost..lol. bernie.. get them wound up or change for smaller ones and get them wound up then enjoy the car for what it is..

exactly. there is nothing worse than buying a pair or a single turbo set-up and then running it at 15psi... aftermarket turbo kits are generally only happy once you get near 20psi+. running low boost just makes the set-up feel lazy AND give you less power. so all you get is lag and no top end either. far better to go with a smaller set-up and run 23psi or so and it will feel nice and 'urgent' and still give more power than running low boost on a bigger set.

[choyda]

travis... have a chat to bakes.. his is pulling 300awkw at 1.3bar (wanted to get cams this year and go for 350kw), was tuned by scott at insight, and it comes on hard at 4500rpm, pin you to the seat kind of hard... its only laggy if you let the revs drop down.. keep it up in the happy spot (4500-8000rpm) and its fantastic.

I have a similar setup to Bakes and get full boost at 4500rpm (tuned by Godzilla Motorsport).

[NZM.031]

Not to be rude but they generally pull 300kw @ around 1.1bar and getting 350 on std cams should be fine.

sorry, i should have said valve springs, scott said these were the hold up... at the higher rpm they werent to happy. for all the cost and effort putting new springs in, cams arent much more to put in. bakes was happy with the perfomance at 300kw and that was his goal.. i dont think hes ever used those 300kw though so its still highly enjoyable for him.. and if he wishes to, he can go for 400 or more without having to go through the turbo swap again..

and it pulled 290 on 1.1bar... which is on par with his previous dyno readings with scott, it is rumoured that the insight dyno reads 15kw less than others.

bakes's is also a very conservative tune as its street driven every single day, he needed it to be able to handle all conditions from summer to winter, and handle a change in pump fuel, be drivable off boost, and comes on boost without any notice of lag, and its very fuel efficient.

I have a similar setup to Bakes and get full boost at 4500rpm (tuned by Godzilla Motorsport).

thats because godzilla motorsport and insight are pals, and converse muchly regarding the tuning of vipec ecu's

[gtr fan]

hey mate, yeah i made 330awks on 1.3 bar with stock cams and stock cam gears, full boost at 5000rpm,jim told me once i get the cam gears on there should be around the 4500rpm mark or less, cant wait!!!

Those results are pretty good. I am putting the same turbos on with CAM gears and will be stoked with that power level and full boost by 4,500RPM.

P.S. Seen your car around looks great with the black wheels!