Wrecking 1998 R33 Gtst - Melbourne
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Yeah, but that's usually just too much spring and/or damper stiffness, because they think that billy cart = handling. If you get rid of all the flex in the bushings, you can actually back off on the spring and damper stiffness. Something to be desired. Here's something that I know a lot about - because R32s have a lot of anti-squat built in and it sucks. This is something that you can fix with geometry, and if I have just cause to have my rear subframe out again I will certainly be doing so, by lowering the front mounts for the lower arms. But this will lead me to have to fit spherical bushings to the lower arms (or just go GKTech arms) and then my journey to the spherical darkside will be almost complete. Anyway, you're lucky, having an R34 rear end with less anti-squat built in. It wouldn't matter if I put really tall tyres onto the car (like it used to have stock on the 16s, for example) because the extra compressibility of the tyre in no way compensates for the fact that the suspension geometry itself is stupid. It's more of the same here really. Your modern retard wants 20" wheels with 3 or 4 condoms wrapped around them, because it looks hot. To select a tyre for its stiffness properties in this context would really more come down to the choice between, say, an 18 and a 17 in a higher profile, rather than picking and choosing between individual tyres available in the same size. Although, obviously you could and would be able to choose a Pirelli over a Hankook, or vice versa, or anything else, if you had some reliable information on sidewall stiffness and other structural traits, if you really really felt motivated to. Again, here, getting rid of the slop in the bushings and mounts would allow you to choose a smaller wheel and taller tyre, which is arguably the better choice for the road when it comes to potholes and shit left lying around anyway, even if it doesn't look as good or allow quite the same brake rotor size. But we're talking street cars here anyway. So I'm not looking to be able to fit 365mm rotors anyway. I have rubber subframe bushes also.... and I would be tempted to go firmer on the diff bushes if it wasn't for the fact that my expensively rebuilt diff clunks worse than a 2-way and it would surely drive me batty. (R32s don't really have diff bushes!! Yay for us). I think poly subframe bushes are probably not a good idea in these cars. Poly seems to not be the most suitable material and it seems to shit itself. I suspect harder rubber is still the best bet and some sort of pineapples/collars added probably all that is justifiable on the street. -
Okay, well, I don't disagree with what you say GTSBoy... Too often in road cars people just go ALL STIFF because it's more responsive feeling but it doesn't always equate to actually having more grip. Squat is a good example. As you've seen, racecars have big sidewalls for a reason, because the tyre itself is part of the suspension geometry which is often overlooked in a world of fitment and really harsh/fixed everything else(s). I am yet to see a road tyre be selected for how it's carcass and stiffness works with regards to suspension geometry. (I know it is in racing for all the reasons given above). But I also have poly everything, and managed to dislodge my diff bushings somehow. So I have rubber ones in there now myself :p -
Nah Greg. Race cars have solid arm bushings and solid subframe bushings and solid diff bushings (and proper racecars have no bushings at all anywhere, just sphericals in the arms). And they do not have less traction. The removal of all squirm in flexible mounts everywhere else allows the movement to be constrained to just one place, being the tyre carcass. Then that can be optimised to provide the amount of movement allowed/required/desirable, instead of having it turn up in 7 different places to different degrees depending on which direct the load is applied from, etc etc. And wheel control then becomes totally the responsibility of the spring and damper, not shared between them and anything else rubber in the suspension. It's all good, no bad, unless you have a problem with NVH. And maintenance, I suppose. In C's case it's quite possibly less about the bushings in the arms than it is about diff bushings and subframe bushings, allowing heavy masses to flail about under the car. But I don't know what they look like on those cars, so won't comment. Also I can't remember what he's already dealt with and can't be arsed reading back through the thread! I'm just happy to watch him throw money at a bloody BMW to show JohnnyDoseDerp that the Euro shitboxen are just as bad as our Jap shitboxen.
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I mean... what movement do you mean? There's no free lunch here. If you take the slop out of bushes then it will get transmitted to the road. The reason drift cars have stiff everything is so that there's nothing absorbing anything between the engine and the road, but make no mistake they have less traction due to it. So when you say 'movement' if you want the side to kick out less, then this won't help. It'll potentially make it more predictable for the driver (you) though.
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