Engineering Veihicles

[Jap_Muscle]

Hey guys,

Havnt been on the forums for a while but the car has been off-road for quite sometime with some minor and not so minor modifications.

I would like to discuss with people the possibility of having my car engineered to avoid future disagreements with officials on the legality of modifications i have. Now i know many of you out there have questions and theories on engineers certificates and i welcome anyone to ask questions. But please, i would like everyone to refrain from posting stupid babble, useless comments ect.

this includes the typical

"you drive a import suck it up"

"cops are idiots"

"omg uleh, sick, stutu"

or anything else along those lines that this forum is ever so infamous for.

i would like this thread to one day be a accurate database on what options us car enthusiasts have in pursuing our passion without breaking the law. In saying that i would like to start off with a few questions.

1. Can a engineers certificate be granted to vehicles with upgraded fuel systems, engine swaps, bigger chargers or blowers?

2. What cant engineers Certs apply to?

3. how long are certs valid for?

4. Recommended Workshops?

5. Process of explaining to officials about the Cert

if anyone out there is about to go down this path or has already, i urge you to contribute to this topic and educate us who are not familiar with this topic.

Thanks

[_Ryan_]

Emissions laws. Engineers cert won't cover it, they only cover things that don't effect Emissions/EPA(Without the expensive emissions testing). So the best option IMO, look for a standard motor that puts out your target power, and do a conversion(by the book).

Eg, RB26 in GTST, VH45 in GTST, unsure if LS1/LS2 is legal in GTST, but I think it would be the best bang/buck. Brake upgrades, suspension mods(some) can be engineered, certain seat changes etc.

Ash, this is going from memory from when I had a datto, If the info is wrong, feel free to delete my post.

[R31Nismoid]

Pretty much on the money

i would like this thread to one day be a accurate database on what options us car enthusiasts have in pursuing our passion without breaking the law. In saying that i would like to start off with a few questions.

1. Can a engineers certificate be granted to vehicles with upgraded fuel systems, engine swaps, bigger chargers or blowers?

2. What cant engineers Certs apply to?

3. how long are certs valid for?

4. Recommended Workshops?

5. Process of explaining to officials about the Cert

if anyone out there is about to go down this path or has already, i urge you to contribute to this topic and educate us who are not familiar with this topic.

Thanks

1. VASS does not cover Emissions in terms of EPA. You need to go through the ADR Emissions testing process and then have that applied to the VASS Cert (Engineers cert). $2000+, if you fail, you’ve done your cash, no refund to the test/retry option. Forget trying to get big turbos/ECU’s/injectors/flowing exhausts and so on passed.

2. Look at a VASS as mechanical only (not technically true, but easier to understand it that way). Emissions related = full ADR Testing.

3. 28-30 days from the date issued to give it to VicRoads, however Police can still defect you 2 months later citing “you might have changed it”.

4. Mob in Braeside – Enkelmen & Assoc or something (check VicRoads website for VASS engineers). Best place for a VASS vs pricing.

5. Impossible. You could show the officer the VASS & ADR approvals, they can/still defect you. Fact.

The testing costs a fken fortune when you think about the fact that if you fail – you have to suck it up and pay for another test.

Honestly, ADR emissions testing is a waste of time because why should you pay $$$ only to be defected/reported, without any proof, 2 months later by Police?

What you need to do is go about your mods smartly.

You can make 380rwkw in a street skyline and be near enough to legal if you do it the right way (even a trained eye will not be able to pick them).

Or

You can make 380rwkw and be a defect on wheels with a long list of defectable items as obviously as dogs balls.

Now, I know any officer of the law will 99.9% of the time disagree with what I’ve said above, say you should make yourself legal and all that b/s etc etc…

However I’m not talking from a text book response. I talk from the real world where in reality everything is much different.

Not going into much more in public for various reasons. If you want to know how to do it, come to a SAU-Vic Gen Meeting, buy me a beer and I’ll tell you how to make the power with certain mods and look factory enough to get past on a day-to-day basis.

However if you are not serious and want to argue with me, then don’t bother. I don’t mean that in a bad way…

I’ve been through many defects/EPA’s. Spoken to Engineers/Police/EPA and my ‘way’ is what I believe the best compromise (read: cheapest/easiest) solution to the situation at hand. The situation being making big power in a street car & lessening defects/EPA’s.

To make a nice simple statement if I may…

In Victoria it is pointless to try and make your car legal. Every system is against you from the outset.

Modify & accept the fact you will be defected not matter what – However modify in such a way that it is smart & subtle and you stand a good chance to avoid the defect in the first place… but should you be defected, it is something very easy to resolve

[llama_au]

Ash is spot on with the above advice. I used Enkelman and Associates in Braeside (as he mentioned as well), as after calling pretty much everyone on the list they were the only one willing to engineer my car (PNW10 SR20DET in an N15 Pulsar.) I needed an engineers cert. to change my engine number over with Vicroads as the engine was never released in this car. For a change of engine they inspect tidiness of the conversion, engine mounts, ride height, brakes, noise and emissions. Emissions is quite a strict thing. Different year models fall under different ADR's for emissions, and regardless of the engine you put in the car must meet emissions of the year your car was made. 97/98 is when the stricter ADR's started being introduced.

[R31Nismoid]

^ just to be clear that is for a factory motor conversion, they do a basic exhaust gas analysis as part of the VASS.

Takes maybe 5-10mins if that. But again - for factory conversions. (just making it clear Juliette for the people @ home lol)

And that is the only time i'd really support getting a VASS - is to do engine conversions and have them legalised on the VicRoads database (same as i what i did for a RB26 in a HR31)

If you wanted to get mods approved etc - it is FULL ADR Testing time as i stated above.

[RBPOWA-(TJ)]

if this thread is kept clean this could prove handy like the RWC thread we have up in the sticky.

so far its proving helpful

[Ruffels]

EPA emmision testing is expensive, but its funny how it works also.... in saying this a 'performance modified car' will always be scruitinised when it comes to epa laws... and as ash said, they will just claim you have changed it since the testing~!

in saying that, a small example of how it is pure shit is just this...

My girlfriends father is a licenced AAFRB gas fitter and has been in the business of gas conversions since the AAFRB was first established, anyways...

he converted my step dads Mitsubishi 380 to dual fuel (put it on gas)... as it turned out he could not buy a kit from any of the suppliers (parnel, eurogas, impco etc) none of them had a kit for the mitsub 380 as none had been legally converted, tested and approved at that time... so as a test bunny my step dads 380 was the first official 380 to be put on injected gas, the conversion was done, custom brackets made up for the converter etc and all documented, the car was then sent to sydney on a truck by eurogas to be epa tested so the new kit could be approved and made commercially available to anyone else wanting to convert a 380 to injected gas.

the test was payed for by eurogas, transport costs etc all covered, was all good.... however the dyno tuning that my girlfriends dad had done on the car to get it running beautifully had to be all altered by eurogas when they sent it up to meet the emmision tests so it would pass... how ever the car ran like shit, had flat spots etc etc etc once altered for the test......

in a nut shell the conversion kit for that car was all passed through australian emmission standards once the test was performed up in sydeny.. cost eurogas a fair ammount of money.. but now the kit has all been approved.... however when the car was sent back down, eurogas loaded the origainal maps that my girlfriends dad had created back onto the gas computer and even used them as a base map in the new computers going in the kit.. so it all goes to show how things like this are not regulated, but will never get scruitinised once complied... but perfomance cars such as skylines would just get defected and told that the test is no longer valid.... a cop would never question an approved gas conversion though!