Custom Clutch, Fitment Problems Bearing And Carrier Issue

[V-Spec]

Hello,

My cars been at a workshop for 1 month and 1.5 months on seperate occasions with a clutch problem.

Started life as an os giken R3C clutch, it was slipping so i decided to rebuild it to a twin plate.

The workshop had trouble fitting it but eventually got it.

It was sloppy from the start but wore in, constaintly made grinding noises and eventually ended up being hard to select gears and then creeping and grinding.

Box was dropped again, clutch sent back, clutch rebuilder advised clutch was slipping on the back plate from contaminate. problem caused by gearbox seal leaking or thrust bearing always enguaged because incorrect size of bearing or bearing carrier.

Workshop says gearbox rear seal has been changed and is not leaking. so it must be the bearing or carrier.

They have been in contact with the builder and are unable to properly measure it all using his instructions by phone.

My idea was to find out the specs of the standard R3C clutch, thrust bearing and carrier sizes, subtract the difference to get the correct size of bearing and bearing carrier.

i have been in contact with os giken and have some specs for R3C push type

pressure plate size 12.1mm

Carrier size 26mm (dont know if this is for just the sleeve, or sleeve and bearing??)

Bearing size ?? standard nissan, part number 30502-14601

My rebuilt clutch does have a higher clamping rate. so i thought the springs on the pressure plate might be different so i asked for that to be measured.

I am yet to have the custom clutch measured, just looking for advice on if im measuring the correct items in order to fit it properly once and for all.

If anyone knows the size of the thrust bearing 30502-14601 it would be a help.

Would i need any other different parts like a different fork or pivot ball?

If anyone have any advice it would be greatly appreciated.

im not a mechanic, sorry if the terminology is incorrect, just trying to help grease the wheels so i can get my car back quicker.

I have attached all the info sent to be by os giken.

Rich

090714_3rd_Page_of_Clutch_Installation_Manual.pdf

Page_6_Clutch_Installation_Manual_Eng_0807.pdf

Edited December 22, 2009 by V-Spec

[The Dan]

It shouldn't be such a hassle. Either the clutch hasn't been built properly (if you have taken it to someone who rebuilds clutches for a living and is good at it, then this is less likely) or the mechanics fitting it are not doing something right. You need the shorter carrier with all the OS clutches and the smaller diameter bearing. Not the standard one.

It will also depend on what the guy did when he built it. They can be built to require the standard bearing.

You need to make sure the hydraulics are functioning correctly and make sure the adjustment is correct also.

[T04GTR]

what he said

you need a 14mm carier with the small bearing. (early datsun something, if anyone knows please fill me in)

being a small cover sping diameter youd be best to keep it as os intended. ie r3c fitting kit. about $130 from attomotto, come with carrier and bearing ready to put in

[The Dan]

He means Otomoto

www.otomoto.com.au

[V-Spec]

thanks for all the replies

so you guys are saying that if the diaphram springs are in the exact same position that the standard os carrier and bearing will fit?

Edited December 23, 2009 by V-Spec

[T04GTR]

yes. unless they changed the cage and cover..

[V-Spec]

cage and cover?

by cage you mean the springs, and by cover you mean the outside?

Sorry if answering my questions is mundane but when i talk to the people who are fixing my car and taking ages, i wanna know what im talking about

Edited December 23, 2009 by V-Spec

[The Dan]

cage and cover?

by cage you mean the springs, and by cover you mean the outside?

Sorry if answering my questions is mundane but when i talk to the people who matter i wanna know what im talking about

The cage is the part or the clutch that holds the plates. It's usually attached or part of the flywheel. It's like a castle turret.

The cover is the piece that goes on top of the part you have in the photo.

Pretty much everything on the top and outside of the clutch aside from the plates and flywheel

[V-Spec]

thanks for explaining that

if the clamping pressure has been changed, does that mean the diaphram springs on the cover have been changed? or does it have to do with something else?

will the diaphram springs always be in the same possition? does this mean that there was no need for any different size carrier and bearing?

sorry about my clutch noobness, at least im learning

[The Dan]

thanks for explaining that

if the clamping pressure has been changed, does that mean the diaphram springs on the cover have been changed? or does it have to do with something else?

will the diaphram springs always be in the same possition? does this mean that there was no need for any different size carrier and bearing?

sorry about my clutch noobness, at least im learning

The spring is usually retained when converting these. It will pretty much go back to within 1mm or so of where it did with the original setup.

The carrier needs to be the short version, though, and the bearing needs to be the small diameter one, not the standard one.

If you want straight advice on the topic, ring NPC clutches when they come back in January. He does the conversions so can tell you all the ins and outs. There number is 07 3277 9403

[Mandingo]

+ 1 for NPC. top mob.

[_Wing_]

the usual things to go wrong here is the bearing, carrier height, and clutch height.

bearing and carrier - mechanic probably used the wrong ones and also overlubed it.

clutch height - rebuilder probably machined off a few mil off the basket/cage since you've removed 2 discs.

after a quick read of the thread it sounds like the bearing is the wrong one and the carrier is too short. post a few pics of the bearing and the clutch in pieces, that'll help more.

[fletch rb30]

i got a smaller bearing from a datsun 200b or 160j. i think there are 2 sizes of 200b bearing, one is same as skyline, one has the smaller diameter

[V-Spec]

cant call the workshops, they are still on holidays.

keen to speak to both parties about this. ill post with a resolution

[V-Spec]

UPDATE

Clutch builder tells me only the internals of the clutch were modified, no cage or cover changes, all internal. this means that the standard os r3c bearing and carrier should fit. Clutch builder has avdised he doesnt know what carrier it came with adn the only way to be sure is to measure it all.

Workshop tells me standard r3c bearing and carrier doesnt work as theyve already tried it and they tell me they cant understand how the clutch builder wants to measure up everything.

The way i see it they got it working and driveable once, but not properly, It failed and the builder has told them whats wrong so it must be possible to get working properly. I have told the workshop to give it one last try, to speak to the builder, measure and install or its going to someone else.

Its hard for me to reverse what was done to the clutch and to be honest i trust the clutch builder. Can anyone recomend me the best in the field of clutches in Melbourne, dont mind if its a person or a workshop, my brother has a hoist and a factory.

the saga continues.

[V-Spec]

more pics from japan

[V-Spec]

UPDATE

My wokshop spent a long time measureing and discussing how to install this clutch correctly. Both parties were happy with happy with how was done.

After getting the car back it was driving the best it ever had.

Drove 300km and the clutch started slipping very very badly, couldnt change gears, had to start the car in gear to drive it anywhere.

My workshop seems to think there is a design fault with this clutch. Asked them the simple questions, seals, free play in the fork so bearing isnt always getting driven. Seem to have oovered it all.

Workshop is taking out everything, flywheel, bolts, clitch, bearing, carrier, fork, slave and sending it to clutch builder.

Both parties have been honest through this but its back to square one and i havnt had the car for a good part of 4 months.

will update

Edited February 8, 2010 by V-Spec