Stagea - Not Happy With Performance

[insanity82007]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and I'm new to owning a Stagea RS Four. I used to own a WRX but decided that a wagon would suit my needs better.

I got the RS Four and to be honest I'm underwhelmed by it but I suspect it may be due to the way the car's been modded.

It's got a Front Mount, Pod filter, 17's and what look like some extensive boost mods.

It's still got a standard exhaust system and the auto box (which I'll be modding to a manual and full 3" system in the New Year).

I'm no expert but it looks like the computer system has been bypassed to modify the boost and I think the computer is constantly WTFing because It keeps stalling, overfuelling (61L for 400kms last tank), hesitating, the auto box keeps changing erratically, the handling is really crap (which I suspect is from power being fed incorrectly to the wheels) and it starts shuddering very badly at 140kms. My dad used to own a standard wagon and he's been visiting recently for a bit and he gave it a drive and he also says it doesn't feel right at all.

Now I know that after owning a WRX that it's not going to be the same with handling and with being a wagon it's obviously heavier but it feels incredibly slack and the handling really doesn't feel like it should (especially in the wet where I have to nurse the car very very carefully).

There's a button on the dash that I've been told switches the power from the engine to 50/50 front and back wheels from 95 back and 5 front.:

Whenever I switch this on (so the orange light pictured comes on) I'm assuming this is 50/50 mode? Whenever I reverse or go forward very slowly (such as when parking) with this on it feels like it's slipping like mad (my dad thought this might be the CV's but there's no feathering on the tyres) and the car doesn't really turn. With it off it's fine. I suspect this isn't meant to happen.

I've taken some photo's of the mod in the engine bay and put some question marks against things I'm speculating on. Here's the first pic:

The solenoid is being completely avoided in this set up as you can see and I don't think that's right at all. I remember with my WRX that when using a manual boost controller it was added to the stock system to "fool" the computer into pushing out more boost.

Here is a pic of the pipe which I think is supposed to be attached to the wastegate coming from the turbo:

It's not attached at all. This doesn't look right either.

In this pic there is a small clear pipe running from the top of the engine to a boost gauge inside:

Is this meant to be like this? It just seems strange that Nissan would build something in like this to go to an in car boost gauge. Is this supposed to be part of the stock set up?

With my WRX I took out the after market blow off valve and put the factory one back in. I took out the GFB manual boost controller that was tapped into the system. With the intake system I took out the dampening box and put a pipe straight through from a pod filter into the engine. I also took all of the restrictors out of the engine bay and put a full 3" exhaust system on. When I did all of this leaving it as stock as possible having only the intake system, no restrictors and a full 3" Exhaust it was boosting 15 pounds compared to the standard 10 with the same computer and everything. The stock BOV sounded really mean too because there was a lot of air in the system.

I suspect if I do something similar with my RS Four and leave it as stock as possible that I'll get much better results then the set up that it's currently running.

I've also tried hooking the pipes from the boost tee up to the solenoid and when I do that I got unlimited boost, which I QUICKLY changed back.

Like I said before I don't claim to be an expert by any means and all I've done is after some research online, having owned a WRX, speaking to my dad (who knows his stuff on big mining machinery and a bit about cars but not really turboed cars) and some speculating is come up with the conclusion that this doesn't look right at all and I'm looking for some advice from people who know what they're doing.

THANKS

[insanity82007]

Oh yeah and if anyone can show me some images of what it's supposed to look like stock that would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.

[QWK32]

2nd pic: every thing appears to be ok there, intercooler pipes are ok, the stock boost solenoid (the bit you have "Here?" written on) has been bypassed and replaced with a manual boost tee. stock boost control is 5psi until like 3000rpm (IIRC lol, been a while since i've run stock boost) then 7psi after that.

the pipe you have labeled "To Wastegate?" isn't a wastegate line, it is the blow off valve return line for when using a plumb back blow off valve.

the one labeled "Whats this pipe for???" is the turbo's output and yes it goes to one side of the intercooler, other side of the cooler goes to the throttle.

the one labeled "Is this meant to go..." is for the stock boost control and is ok to be blocked off when using a manual boost tee

3rd pic that bit is for the stock plumb back blow off valve return line, the same one i mentioned before. it should be blocked off to run the ATMO blow off valve, check it is if you want.

4th pic it looks like you have a line there for an aftermarket boost gauge, not stock.

other notes, 400km to a tank is good for an untuned stagea, search for the fuel consumption thread in this section to look at what everyone else is getting and what they did to get more. i was getting between 380-400 a tank on stock setup.

and the reason you are getting constant stalling is because of the atmo blow off valve. it is venting off air that the ecu has already calculated fuel for, so when you back off and vent the excess pressure to atmo the engine overfuels and stalls. best get a plumb back bov back in there, either stock or aftermarket.

Edited December 29, 2009 by QWK32

[ssshonky]

Hey matey , where abouts are you located?

the Bypassing of the Solenoid looks nornal, I have ours set that way with a manual boost T too.

the 50/50 should not really be used if you are not in snow or on gravel.

there is also a button located in the center console , I think its marked SNOW. Make sure that is NOT on , it stops the car from starting off in 1st gear ( to give more traction in the snow ) and yeah makes the car feel like crap.

that thing you circled with CUT on it is the recirc line for the factory BOV I am thinking, my question is is there a bung in the pipe that usually leads to the BOV?

How many PSI is the car running at the moment? you have to bear in mind too that the thing weighs in at 1600kg , an auto , and no full 3 inch exhaust .. its never going to thrill you the way it is

I would try and get the exhaust free'd up 1st, try and get it to be a full 3 inch all the way back , I wonder if your Cat is blocked? oh and these cars are NEVER good on fuel. Period.

oh and your STALLING is caused by your Atmo venting BOV. If you put it back to recirc that problem would more than likely go away.

Didnt you take the car for a test drive when you bought it ?

[KiwiRS4T]

Welcome to Stagea land. Yes the stock RS4T is no ball of fire but with the RIGHT mods can easily become quite zippy right up to 600+awkw if you have lots of money.

A front mount and a pod won't do it, especially with the stock exhaust. You don't say if it has an after market bov but if it has the odds are a stock one or a GTR stocker plumbed back as per factory would work better (esp if it is currently venting to atmosphere).

Normally the first item should be a 3in turbo back exhaust dumping the cat or knocking the guts out or whatever is legal in your area.

Then a bit more boost. By-passing the solenoid is the easist way to do it and not a problem if done correctly. Boost comes from the intercooler pipe to the T and one side goes to the actuator and the other is a vent/bleed to the bov return pipe. Boost can be altered by changing the size of the restrictor in the bleed or sometimes by a crude "boost T" which can be wound up and down to acheive that.

Next you need more boost which will start affecting the ecu which is very difficult/expensive to chip but if you go manual then you can use any one of a number of aftermarket solutions.

The S1 doesn't come with a boost guage standard so the pipe you see is quite common.

The awd attesa system is a Porsche derived system which normall delivers power 95% rear and 5% front until it senses that the rear is losing traction when it will send more power to the fronts. It is controlled by its own computer (unlike earlir, mechanical versions) and sensors on each wheel (which also control the abs) and motion sensors in the middle of the car. The synchro button locks the Attesa in 50/50 mode but only at very low speeds ( say for pulling out of a wet paddock) but once you get up speed the computer takes over again reagrdless of the position of that button.

Stock handling is not flash but it can be improved dramatically by installing a much bigger rear sway bar (BNR11XX24mm for example). Next Bilsteins all round with which you can also set your ride height 30 - 45mm lower)

there is lots of information on the website

nb esp the suspension thread in the stickys above and the brakes thread. There is a load of information in the DIY stick above as well.

Good luck!

[ssshonky]

doh! wish I waited longer and let Josh do all my hard work haha..

oh well 2 heads are better than 1

[insanity82007]

Welcome to Stagea land. Yes the stock RS4T is no ball of fire but with the RIGHT mods can easily become quite zippy right up to 600+awkw if you have lots of money.

A front mount and a pod won't do it, especially with the stock exhaust. You don't say if it has an after market bov but if it has the odds are a stock one or a GTR stocker plumbed back as per factory would work better (esp if it is currently venting to atmosphere).

Normally the first item should be a 3in turbo back exhaust dumping the cat or knocking the guts out or whatever is legal in your area.

Then a bit more boost. By-passing the solenoid is the easist way to do it and not a problem if done correctly. Boost comes from the intercooler pipe to the T and one side goes to the actuator and the other is a vent/bleed to the bov return pipe. Boost can be altered by changing the size of the restrictor in the bleed or sometimes by a crude "boost T" which can be wound up and down to acheive that.

Next you need more boost which will start affecting the ecu which is very difficult/expensive to chip but if you go manual then you can use any one of a number of aftermarket solutions.

The S1 doesn't come with a boost guage standard so the pipe you see is quite common.

The awd attesa system is a Porsche derived system which normall delivers power 95% rear and 5% front until it senses that the rear is losing traction when it will send more power to the fronts. It is controlled by its own computer (unlike earlir, mechanical versions) and sensors on each wheel (which also control the abs) and motion sensors in the middle of the car. The synchro button locks the Attesa in 50/50 mode but only at very low speeds ( say for pulling out of a wet paddock) but once you get up speed the computer takes over again reagrdless of the position of that button.

Stock handling is not flash but it can be improved dramatically by installing a much bigger rear sway bar (BNR11XX24mm for example). Next Bilsteins all round with which you can also set your ride height 30 - 45mm lower)

there is lots of information on the website

nb esp the suspension thread in the stickys above and the brakes thread. There is a load of information in the DIY stick above as well.

Good luck!

Thanks for all of this info... this is really useful.

Just a few Q's

What does a GTR stocker look like?

If I by pass the solenoid and use my GFB manual boost controller I can get it boosting up to 17PSI... this is quite a lot from what I understand and I wouldn't need to chip the ECU would I? The engine can handle this eh?

When I tried hooking the pipes up to the solenoid with the current config it boosted 25PSI before I stopped, pulled over and hooked the pipes back up to the Tee... is this normal?!?

I can't wait for the manual and for the exhaust. I know how much of a difference the exhaust makes. It was HUGE on my WRX.

[ssshonky]

I wouldnt be pushing the stock turbo to 17psi

I think its only good up to around 14 psi

Stageas traditionally run rich, but I still wouldnt go near 17psi , but thats just me.

Oh and have a REALLY GOOD read abot the manual conversion process, there is even a thread on here about if its really worth doing a manual conversion or not.

Thanks for all of this info... this is really useful.

Just a few Q's

What does a GTR stocker look like?

If I by pass the solenoid and use my GFB manual boost controller I can get it boosting up to 17PSI... this is quite a lot from what I understand and I wouldn't need to chip the ECU would I? The engine can handle this eh?

When I tried hooking the pipes up to the solenoid with the current config it boosted 25PSI before I stopped, pulled over and hooked the pipes back up to the Tee... is this normal?!?

I can't wait for the manual and for the exhaust. I know how much of a difference the exhaust makes. It was HUGE on my WRX.

[QWK32]

dont boost it up to 17psi, no more than 12psi should be run through the stock turbo. it is ceramic rear wheel and will be blown to pieces running that amount of boost. you cant just hook it up to the stock solenoid, it is piped differently and also need restrictors fitted to the lines to operate as stock, forget the stock solenoid for now and just use the manual Tee.

boosting up to 11-12psi on an untuned ecu is ok, it will just continue to run rich when you put the foot down. you have a S1 so a chipped ecu isn't really and option, you'd be better off going for a SAFC or an emanage if your keen. or, just wait until you get your manual installed and use a complete aftermaket ecu.

[KiwiRS4T]

Thanks for all of this info... this is really useful.

Just a few Q's

What does a GTR stocker look like?

I don't have a pic but it looks just like the stock one but a bit bigger and has a brass insert and doesn't have the little vent inside. It also doesn't fit the standard hose so maybe best to just get a stock one first.

If I by pass the solenoid and use my GFB manual boost controller I can get it boosting up to 17PSI... this is quite a lot from what I understand and I wouldn't need to chip the ECU would I? The engine can handle this eh?

ECU probably won't handle 17psi well. Unopened engine limit is probably around there too. the weak point is the the stock turbo - safe limit for that is 10 -12 psi depending on how lucky you feel.

PS I hung on to my auto as long as possible and you can get beefed up autos that are quite satisfactory but I now have a 33GTR box and its so much better on the track.

When I tried hooking the pipes up to the solenoid with the current config it boosted 25PSI before I stopped, pulled over and hooked the pipes back up to the Tee... is this normal?!?

No, stock set up is different - best to forget about solenoid - limits boost to 5psi at low revs and a whopping 7psi max.

I can't wait for the manual and for the exhaust. I know how much of a difference the exhaust makes. It was HUGE on my WRX.

Big exhaust gives you much better flow and usually puts up stock psi by 3psi or so on its own.

[-RBD2-]

If I by pass the solenoid and use my GFB manual boost controller I can get it boosting up to 17PSI... this is quite a lot from what I understand and I wouldn't need to chip the ECU would I? The engine can handle this eh?

good luck mate,at 17psi you'll be picking your exhaust wheel out of your cat fairly shortly

[leetom]

what everyone said, most important get full exhaust, fmic on std exhaust= shit, and also with a system get a safc and a tune= better fuel better power oh and a good panel filter or if the pods ok enclose it with some cold air induction, shit sorry when it comes to a stagea you could go on & on

[insanity82007]

what everyone said, most important get full exhaust, fmic on std exhaust= shit, and also with a system get a safc and a tune= better fuel better power oh and a good panel filter or if the pods ok enclose it with some cold air induction, shit sorry when it comes to a stagea you could go on & on

safc?

[QWK32]

SAFC = Apexi Super Air Flow Convertor. basically its a little electronic device that apexi makes that allow you to manipulate the air flow meters signal to the ecu to trick the ecu in thinking its getting less/more air that it really is. this means you can lean/richen mixtures of the stock ecu to get better performance and fuel economy. they are good for mild modded setups, e.g. front mount, exhaust, little bit of boost.

[insanity82007]

SAFC = Apexi Super Air Flow Convertor. basically its a little electronic device that apexi makes that allow you to manipulate the air flow meters signal to the ecu to trick the ecu in thinking its getting less/more air that it really is. this means you can lean/richen mixtures of the stock ecu to get better performance and fuel economy. they are good for mild modded setups, e.g. front mount, exhaust, little bit of boost.

I just did some reading. It looks like I'd have to set the levels myself at various RPM's. I don't think my skill level is quite up there...

As a side note the other thing I'm noticing is the turbo is kicking in really early at what I can determine to be 1500RPM. Is this also normal???

[QWK32]

I just did some reading. It looks like I'd have to set the levels myself at various RPM's. I don't think my skill level is quite up there...

As a side note the other thing I'm noticing is the turbo is kicking in really early at what I can determine to be 1500RPM. Is this also normal???

yeah you'd have to get someone with a wideband O2 sensor to tune it for you. SAFC's can be had for about $400-$500 for the newer model, depending on where you get one. if your plans weren't to go to crazy with mods i'd recommend one, the performance increase just by leaning out the overly rich stock ecu mixtures is really noticeable. stock turbo building boost at 1500rpm is normal.

[Tangles]

get into the reading matey..... this site here has all the info

in all honesty the S1 auto stagea is so superior to the wrx it isnt funneh

[RubyRS4]

I wouldnt be pushing the stock turbo to 17psi

I think its only good up to around 14 psi

Stageas traditionally run rich, but I still wouldnt go near 17psi , but thats just me.

Oh and have a REALLY GOOD read abot the manual conversion process, there is even a thread on here about if its really worth doing a manual conversion or not.

I'm with stupid ^^^

I wouldn't go higher than 12psi on a stock turbo ... and because stags run rich from factory, that'd be the limit before you need to get it tuned. But heck, if it was my car, I'd be getting it tuned, or at least the AFRs checked at 12psi. Also, have the timing checked too.

I suspect your biggest problem with the car is the stock exhaust not letting the engine breathe better ... and the FMIC adding lag to the stock turbo. Get a 3" system, HKS 2530 turbo, 12psi boost, SAFC Neo, a tune and you'll be much happier with it.

I recently did a manual conversion to my Stagea. I had all the bits ready ... read everything I needed to ... and there will always be something you'll miss. I had my stag off the road for 2 weeks, taking my time, not rushing and doing it right. And I'm stoked with the results ... the stagea is awesome to drive now. Highly recommended ... cost me about $1900 to do (that included a Nismo clutch kit and lightened flywheel). I have no faith in the tiptronic auto rubbish anymore.

BTW where are you located?

[STATUS]

Just get the factory ecu remaped far better than the SAFC neo and so forth. The stagea respond very well to a remap (750-850), we do about 3 a month, in fact its probably the best mod for a stagea (or r34 that matter). Not much more than a new SAFC either.

were are you located i can direct you somewhere.

[_Ryan_]

Just get the factory ecu remaped far better than the SAFC neo and so forth. The stagea respond very well to a remap (750-850), we do about 3 a month, in fact its probably the best mod for a stagea (or r34 that matter). Not much more than a new SAFC either.

were are you located i can direct you somewhere.

I know it can be done on series 2's, but can it be done on series 1's without changing to a Z32 ECU?