Ebc Versus Actuator Spring Settings

[LotusGTR]

I've got some -7 tubs to fit to my R32 GTR that have standard wastegate actuators on them. Let's say they're set for 10 psi for the sake of discussion. I'd like to be running more like 16-18 psi and am considering running an EBC after being very pleased with the results of fitting one to my other car.

My question revolves around the relationship the EBC has with the mechanical wastgate actuator springs. Do I need to upgrade the actuators to suit 18psi or do I leave them as they are and let the EBC do it all for me? Or do you ideally need both done?

Can someone explain how they interact and what will give the overall best result. I'd clearly rather not have to spend money on upgrading the actuators and an EBC if possible. If it's a choice between the 2, I think I'd prefer the EBC route.

Cheers.

[gotRICE?]

Basically the wastegate wont open untill the set PSI, for your example, 10psi.. as you know

The EBC will be fitted between the boost source and the actuator, and wont let the actuator see the 10psi, and will bleed off air, therefore the wastegate wont open, allowing the turbo to create more boost.

It could probly be explained better, im noob.

But, you COULD just by a pair of 18psi Actuators. The work extremely well.

I brought one back for a friend from the USA, a Garret item i think, was abour $50usd for a single one. But of course there was no shipping involved.

The have a large can on them and are very tight. So hold the wastegate shut hard and dont creep open

Edited January 12, 2010 by gotRICE?

[VB-]

yeah basically there needs to be 10psi at the actuator to mechanically open the wasegate, your EBC will bleed off excess air, and allow enough through to open the gate once it sees your at your desired boost level

[HEKT1K]

if you have just one target boost level that you aren't going to change, then actuators are the way to go i think.

why bother with buying and setting up EBCs?

[LotusGTR]

if you have just one target boost level that you aren't going to change, then actuators are the way to go i think.

why bother with buying and setting up EBCs?

Good question. That's the point of this thread. My other car ran 21 psi with no EBC so either there was another way of controlling the boost level, or the actuators were set at that level when my tuner installed them. Either way, the boost would trail off in the last couple of thousand rpm. So I had the EBC fitted and not only was the peak boost maintained all the way to the redline, but it made boost noticeably earlier at all points in the rev range and was MUCH nicer to drive. My conclusion therefore is that an EBC is very worthwhile and that (probably / maybe) even though the actuators had been modified they weren't doing the job properly. I'd guess that this is because the actuators are springs and that springs do not open and shut in a switch like fashion, but begin to open partially before peak boost is arrived at and then leak from there on.

I'd welcome comments to clarrify this.

[Munkyb0y]

as i understand it, the best results will come from having an actuator that is rated to a couple of psi below your target boost, and then using a boost controller to achieve the desired boost.

eg. 14psi actuator + boost controller to achieve 16 - 18 psi.

[LotusGTR]

as i understand it, the best results will come from having an actuator that is rated to a couple of psi below your target boost, and then using a boost controller to achieve the desired boost.

eg. 14psi actuator + boost controller to achieve 16 - 18 psi.

Yeah, don't know why but I suspected something like this myself. Can you explain why?

[gotRICE?]

Its like mentioned above, it will start to creep open slightly as it nears the psi of the actuator spring, causing it to drop off a little as the revs get up there.

But if the last couple are controlled by the ebc, the wastegate will stay tightly shut

[JAS-25T]

One is mechanical, one is electronic.

The electronic one will be more accurate as it will not be open to design flaws, as it is all based on calculations.

[LotusGTR]

One is mechanical, one is electronic.

The electronic one will be more accurate as it will not be open to design flaws, as it is all based on calculations.

Yep, so does that make Munkeyboy right? Is it best practise to have the mechanical set close to the electronic? If so, why?

[JAS-25T]

It means your EBC is not working so hard bleeding air to trick the wastegate acuator.

I.E. the actuator spring (rough) holds most of the boost bleeding duties and the solenoid valve makes the final adjustments (fine)

[LotusGTR]

It means your EBC is not working so hard bleeding air to trick the wastegate acuator.

I.E. the actuator spring (rough) holds most of the boost bleeding duties and the solenoid valve makes the final adjustments (fine)

Bingo. Thanks.

[LotusGTR]

Just to open this back up again, I've had a chat with the guy who sold me the turbs (been doing turbs for 20 yrs and supplies Racepace among others) who reckons that yes it's best to mod the actuators, but the cost benefit is not worth it. Said all his tuner / engine builder customers rarely if ever order them with upgraded actuators, which is interesting. Said the EBC should be able to double the mechanically set level. Also said the changing the actuators after turbo fitment is not a big job (seems pretty tight down there to me) so just to try the standard ones and if it's a problem then upgrade later.....

Actuators are $450 plus freight, so not a small sum especially when added to all the other 'small sums'.

So, I keep the 10psi actuators, fit an EBC and target 18psi. The EBC has to work 'more' to achieve this. So what are the implications of this? It finds it harder to control things? Isn't able to hold or control the boost?

Finally, anyone got a view on replacing the actuators with the turbs in situ?

Thanks.

[JAS-25T]

Just to open this back up again, I've had a chat with the guy who sold me the turbs (been doing turbs for 20 yrs and supplies Racepace among others) who reckons that yes it's best to mod the actuators, but the cost benefit is not worth it. Said all his tuner / engine builder customers rarely if ever order them with upgraded actuators, which is interesting. Said the EBC should be able to double the mechanically set level. Also said the changing the actuators after turbo fitment is not a big job (seems pretty tight down there to me) so just to try the standard ones and if it's a problem then upgrade later.....

Actuators are $450 plus freight, so not a small sum especially when added to all the other 'small sums'.

So, I keep the 10psi actuators, fit an EBC and target 18psi. The EBC has to work 'more' to achieve this. So what are the implications of this? It finds it harder to control things? Isn't able to hold or control the boost?

Finally, anyone got a view on replacing the actuators with the turbs in situ?

Thanks.

In order.

The implications are that the EBC is bleeding more air than it would have if the acutator did it first. As long the increase is within the range of operation of the EBC it wont be a problem. In practice, it shouldn't matter, and that is generally why most people don't uprate their wastegate actuators.

Im not familiar with your turbo install, so I couldn't tell you if you could or couldn't install a new actuator in situ.

The variables would be:

- difference in size of new anad existing actuator (may be the same?)

- space around existing actuator and if this would allow removal and install

- time to fiddle within said space to do the replacement

- time to take turbos off and replace actuators and the replace turbos.

You'd have to weigh up each option based on those (and some other variables, like what tools you might have available) and make a decision.

[JAS-25T]

BTW - you can get adjustable actuators, or even make yours adjustable with some minor modifications. But thats a whole different kettle of fish..............

I hope I havent opened a can of worms.

[gotRICE?]

$450 plus freight? Who are you getting them from? Thats insane.

I mentioned before that i got one from the USA for about $50 or so USD. Ill try find the supplier.

Here, i found it:

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...;Category_Code=

Edited January 14, 2010 by gotRICE?

[LotusGTR]

$450 plus freight? Who are you getting them from? Thats insane.

I mentioned before that i got one from the USA for about $50 or so USD. Ill try find the supplier.

Here, i found it:

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...;Category_Code=

GCG. Thanks for the link. Muchacho cheaper. There is a second had set at 15 pise going for $200 locally which I could also pick up. Cheers.

[gotRICE?]

No problem.

I had a play with it before handing it over to Lithium on these forums. Its rock solid. Almost impossible to open it by hand So should hold your 18psi dead.

Hes sposed to be getting it put on his GT3076R very soon. Could get in touch and take a look at his boost control results.

Either way, GL!

[Deano45]

$450 plus freight? Who are you getting them from? Thats insane.

I mentioned before that i got one from the USA for about $50 or so USD. Ill try find the supplier.

Here, i found it:

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?S...;Category_Code=

$450 That's about on par with the price for the HKS ones. That's what I paid for them.

LotusGTR: my Garret GT2860R -7 turbos came with adjustable actuators when I bought them. I took them off and replaced them with the HKS ones. I guess it's who you buy them from.

[LotusGTR]

$450 That's about on par with the price for the HKS ones. That's what I paid for them.

LotusGTR: my Garret GT2860R -7 turbos came with adjustable actuators when I bought them. I took them off and replaced them with the HKS ones. I guess it's who you buy them from.

Yeah, I guess it does. Here are some pics of mine. Any chance they're adjustable? The 'head' looks to be sealed but there is adjustment on the shaft where it meets the wastegate lever.