tube/fin vs bar/plate

[coco69]

hey guys,

used the search function but wasn't able to nail any exact threads dealing with the differences between tube and fin and bar and plate FMIC's...

i know the physical differences, but does any one have any experience or recommendations between the two? what performance differences is there between the two?

cheers...

[Ronin 09]

yo coco, check out the tech article at:

www.are.com.au

[Cubes]

It really depends on what you are after.

For a tube and fin to support say 600hp it needs to be larger than the bar and plate.

I wanted a intercooler that would fit behind the front bar that would support up towards 600hp. The tube and fin intercoolers were to big that would support that sort of power so I went a bar and plate.

The bar and plate i got had the specs of 580hp with a 1.5psi pressure drop.

The temp difference between the inlet and outlet is massive. On a 30-40degree day I feel the inlet and it is too hot to touch especially when running upwards of 1.1bar. The outlet however is cool to touch. It does its job well. The IC I have is the one that was featured in Zoom quite some time ago that had Tim from RPM measuring the pressure drop from the stock IC (upwards of 7-8psi) to the fmic.

[GTR-Ben]

The bar and plate intercooler will have more surface area than a tube and fin of the same size, they are heavier and also restrict more air flow to the radiator etc behind them.

I have a 100mm thick Bar and Plate cooler, It should cool nicely.

[JimX]

One thing overlooked is that tube and fin coolers are stronger than bar and plate and also easier to repair. If you are considering an older second hand cooler, tube and fin is probably a preferable option.

[Cubes]

How are tube and fin coolers stronger when they arn't as dense as a bar and plate.

Comparing mine to a GTR cooler mine looks stronger due to the thick bars that run horizontally.

[Cubes]

How are tube and fin coolers stronger when they arn't as dense as a bar and plate?

Comparing mine to a GTR cooler, mine looks stronger due to the thick bars that run horizontally.

[Cubes]

Another thought...

How about the new Hybrid intercoolers that are starting to appear around the place?

[JimX]

Joel, did you read the ARE article?

[coco69]

hey guys, thanks for all the interesting info...

was thinking about getting a bar and plate cooler from mercurry motorsports...

check it out, www.mercurymotorsport.com.au

tell us what you think...

[Ronin 09]

Coco, it worries me:

EDITED

I personally would not buy from a business that does not state a principal business address or land-line phone number

I'm not trying to put down mercury motorsport, these are concerns that I would list if I were considering buying from them.

EDITED

[JimX]

What was recommended to me when I got my cooler was that if you have the space, tube and fin is better because it has less pressure drop. So for the same area, bar and plate would flow more hp, but have a greater pressure drop.

There is a lot of room up the front of a Skyline to put a pretty big cooler up there. If I was chasing really big hp numbers where space *would* start to become a limiting factor, then hell yeah, I would readily swap to bar and plate.

I think there is a lot of misplaced "prestige" on bar and plate coolers, because they are more expensive, because they cool better for the same size, and because more people think they look better (my tube and fin was actually designed to look like a bar and plate and I'm sure this was a marketing thing only). But combined with the extra pressure drop, this does not always mean better. I had the choice of either, I chose tube and fin.

The extra bits in the ARE article about it being stronger and easier to repair made me more glad that I chose tube and fin.

[Ronin 09]

I agree with JimX. Tube and fin are less prone to damage too, because the tubes can simply bend, whereas bar and plate will leak when the front 'bar' is bent.

I went for a bar and plate from ARE because I don't want to change my front bar (type M) and didn't really want to cut the centre #plate bar out of it either. The solution works for me.

Either way b+p or t+f is good, as long as the core and end tank construction is of good quality. I question a 550 dollar bar and plate - usually cores alone cost more than that.

Here is my cooler that went in about 3 weeks ago. It is an ARE b+p, I think it is 300x520x90??!? something like that

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, I have tested a few intercoolers on the flow bench and in the race cars. What I noted.............

1. Bar and plate, for the same size, flows more air inside

2. Bar and plate, for the same size, flows less air outside (ie; bigger restriction on flow to the radiator)

3 At 100 kph, tube and fin cools better for the same size, because of 2.

4. It takes longer to heat soak a bar and plate, because they are heavier.

5. Tube and fin are lighter for the same size

So for a road/circuiit car I would use a tube and fin because points 2, 3 and 5 are import on the circuit. For a road/ drag car I would use bar and plate because points 1 and 4 are more important on the strip.

The killer is, I have found that the end tanks make more difference than whether choosing between bar and plate and tube and fin core.

Hope that helps

[markr34gtr]

Hi guys, I have tested a few intercoolers on the flow bench and in the race cars.  What I noted.............

1. Bar and plate, for the same size, flows more air inside

2. Bar and plate, for the same size, flows less air outside (ie; bigger restriction on flow to the radiator)

3 At 100 kph, tube and fin cools better for the same size, because of 2.

4. It takes longer to heat soak a bar and plate, because they are heavier.

5. Tube and fin are lighter for the same size

So for a road/circuiit car I would use a tube and fin because points 2, 3 and 5 are import on the circuit.  For a road/ drag car I would use bar and plate because points 1 and 4 are more important on the strip.

The killer is, I have found that the end tanks make more difference than whether choosing between bar and plate and tube and fin core.  

Hope that helps

what do you think about a hks type r intercooler for gtr.?????

size is 600 by 300 by 103mm..

how much hp will this work with..???

just fitting one to my r34 gtr......

[Sydneykid]

Hi markr34gtr, haven't had one on the flow bench. But checking its dimensions I would say its a good intercooler for a drag car with 800 bhp. It's too big internally for a road only car, way to much lag and the throttle response would be severly compromised. And it has too much ambient air restriction for a circuit car.

If you car fits the target profile then it will be fine, if it doesn't, then be aware of the compromises.

[markr34gtr]

Hi markr34gtr, haven't had one on the flow bench.  But checking its dimensions I would say its a good intercooler for a drag car with 800 bhp.  It's too big internally for a road only car, way to much lag and the throttle response would be severly compromised.  And it has too much ambient air restriction for a circuit car.

If you car fits the target profile then it will be fine, if it doesn't, then be aware of the compromises.

have twin hks 2530's turbos with hks dumps.

700cc sard injectors.

nismo fuel pump.

nismo adj fuel reg.

power fc

hks type r intercooler.

good 3 inch high flow cat and system.

blitz id 3 boost controller.

hoping for 500 to 600hp...

[Sydneykid]

Hi markr34gtr, sorry I remember your specs now...........

I think at the time I suggested that the standard R34 GTR intercooler would be sufficient. With the 600X300X103 you will experience more lag than is necessary for your targetted power output.

Hope that clarifies

Happy New Year

[markr34gtr]

Hi markr34gtr, sorry I remember your specs now...........

I think at the time I suggested that the standard R34 GTR intercooler would be sufficient.  With the 600X300X103 you will experience more lag than is necessary for your targetted power output.

Hope that clarifies

Happy New Year

oh well see how it goes when i get the thing running with the power fc

and get it tuned.....

the hks cooler looks great and should cool better at high boost i would imagine...

cheers....

[Gson]

I also heard that end tanks are more important! i heard that if the inlet/outlet are parralel it is not as good as one top, one bottom!

is this true?