Is It Possible To Get A Caged R32gtst Under 1200kg?

[warps]

Just wondering if anyone has managed to get a caged, tarmac rally or circuit / drift R32 GTS-t under 1200kg, or whether it's even possible? It would have to have all panels in place (ie no drift specials with bumpers missing etc) and 2 seats, complete dash still fitted. Not talking about exotic Cr Mo cages either but something fairly substantial.

Also not allowed to use titanium and carbon components - all panels must remain steel where fitted, and carbon not allowed

Would this be possible without costing $1M, or just a pipe dream?

[evil_weevil]

silly question - but whats the standard r32 gtst weight from factory?

[Leif]

According to This site, they weigh 1320kg standard

Edited January 16, 2010 by Leif

[floody]

I think for a track car it would be relatively easy. You can pull out a lot of bolt on bracing and stuff you wouldn't need, trim bumper reo bars, pull out lots of shields and covers and trim, wiring, electronics, sound, interior lighting, climate control...

As an example Group A HR31 Skylines were 1115-1180kg, and off the showroom floor a HR31 GTS-X is 1450kg.

I reckon 1320 -> sub 1200 is well doable.

[sav man]

no.

[-Jimmy-]

no.

What's your explanation?

I think it's possible? Without rear seats, sound deadening, maybe put on a GTR bonnet as they're aluminium, as suggested maybe give the reo bars a trim and remove the hicas, audio and a/c.

Edited January 16, 2010 by -Jimmy-

[zebra]

What's your explanation?

I think it's possible? Without rear seats, sound deadening, maybe put on a GTR bonnet as they're aluminium, as suggested maybe give the reo bars a trim and remove the hicas, audio and a/c.

even removing all of that you would be lucky to offset the weight of the cage, as a decent cage will weight more that 60kg

[Tangles]

picked up a bhp-steel roll cage today, $5 purchase off ebay to suit a prado

it will be going into (modified) my r32 gts-t sedan track car; featuring rb26dett

guessing ~1400kg including cage less stuff taken out (seats, sound deadener, etc) perhaps 100kg

it'd be close to get down to 1200

lighter aluminium bonnet would help

take out the fuel tank and use a cell instead, perhaps?

smaller radiator overflow bottle, etc, trim back unwanted metal, etc....

[warps]

Thanks for the feedback. I can't afford to sacrifice the strength of too many components, and cooling system will defenitely need to be up to scratch. I have generally found that a caged, prepped car weighs close to the factory weight of the standard vehicle (by the time you add in other stuff that I'll be needing)

Not sure whether regs will let me run the GTR bonnet yet.

[zebra]

what are you going to be running in?

[sav man]

What's your explanation?

I think it's possible? Without rear seats, sound deadening, maybe put on a GTR bonnet as they're aluminium, as suggested maybe give the reo bars a trim and remove the hicas, audio and a/c.

I'm going of Benny Woosters numbers, he got his down to 1280 kg, with gtr kit, and pretty resnobale amount of weight savings, but his cage isn't hugly extensive. Short of carbon, titanium, and cro-mo cage, it won't be any lighter.

you can't look at a group a car for weight numbers. Fristly they had a pretty basic cage compard to todays standards, and things like most of the suspention being custom milled from alloy, and use of lightweight materails everywhere.

if you want to race for long stages/runs you have to add weight in to make it reliable, bigger radiator, oil cooler, bigger brakes.

[zebra]

if you want to race for long stages/runs you have to add weight in to make it reliable, bigger radiator, oil cooler, bigger brakes.

Thats the truest words ive ever heard lol.

My 33 gtst will be heavier in "race use only" form than it was as a streeter.

By the time you add things like brake ducts (or air deflectors in my case) oil coolers, big radiator, cage, dataloggers, yadda yadda yadda. its quiet easy to go heavier...i mean a back seat weighs all of 7-8kgs, body deadener and everything else in the cabin is ~40kgs

[zebra]

also while im thinking of this subject...if you cut out the body bracing you will have to re-stiffen the chassis with the cage and by the sounds of what your limiting yourself to having all steel panels you want to run in a production catagory..and most of them do not allow through firewall bracing in the front or rear of the car, so the body will flop around like a wet sock.

[warps]

I'm going of Benny Woosters numbers, he got his down to 1280 kg, with gtr kit, and pretty resnobale amount of weight savings, but his cage isn't hugly extensive. Short of carbon, titanium, and cro-mo cage, it won't be any lighter.

you can't look at a group a car for weight numbers. Fristly they had a pretty basic cage compard to todays standards, and things like most of the suspention being custom milled from alloy, and use of lightweight materails everywhere.

if you want to race for long stages/runs you have to add weight in to make it reliable, bigger radiator, oil cooler, bigger brakes.

That's exactly the sort of info I was after - thanks Sav Man.

Yup - long stages, high power, low speed, harsh roads - it will be copping a pounding unlike any R32 has probably experienced before

Won't be needing big brakes (in fact, I don't think I can fit anything bigger than standard under the wheels anyway). We are allowed to run the cage into the boot and engine bay, so no problems there. Definitely don't like the throught of removing stiffening braces, but will look at all parts and determine what is load bearing and what isn't (not too difficult if you have some idea of engineering principles)

Our weight limits are based on engine capacity. Stock RB20DET means I can go as light as 1180kg according to the regs, but that doesn't sound very achievable within our regs. The next category takes you up to 1260kg, which sounds about right. If I can't get the car below 1260 then I can look at boring / stroking to 2.2L if that will gain me any significant benefits (chasing fat torque curve, not useless dyno queen).

All just part of my research at this stage before I embark on the project. HAve some serious red tape to cut through first, so might not even get off the ground until that can be sorted.

Thanks for the help again.

[DJRIFT]

To add to sav mans info. ive stripped down a few r32s now and the biggest weight areas are in the suspension. sub frame, cross member and associated bits. the actual shell weighs f all and thats why they require bracing ect ect. things like if the roll cage isnt tagged to the front a pillars then you will crack windscreens because of the twisting of the chassis. then the next biggest weight is the engine its self. its a heavy engine full stop and theres not much you can do about that.

body panels do save weight but its all marginal compared to the suspension components. ive tried to cut bits out of the doors and boot lid and bits here and there but its half a kilo here and there. so if you was able to get billet alloy suspension components made cheaply i think that would help greatly.

just yesterday we were talking to a bloke about 2 different shock brands (top brands) and he said one brand weighs 1/3rd of the weight of the other being a 8kg saving over all on one component. it depends at the end of the day how far you want to take it. i can see in your case its governed by rules but its just some info for you.

[warps]

To add to sav mans info. ive stripped down a few r32s now and the biggest weight areas are in the suspension. sub frame, cross member and associated bits. the actual shell weighs f all and thats why they require bracing ect ect. things like if the roll cage isnt tagged to the front a pillars then you will crack windscreens because of the twisting of the chassis. then the next biggest weight is the engine its self. its a heavy engine full stop and theres not much you can do about that.

body panels do save weight but its all marginal compared to the suspension components. ive tried to cut bits out of the doors and boot lid and bits here and there but its half a kilo here and there. so if you was able to get billet alloy suspension components made cheaply i think that would help greatly.

just yesterday we were talking to a bloke about 2 different shock brands (top brands) and he said one brand weighs 1/3rd of the weight of the other being a 8kg saving over all on one component. it depends at the end of the day how far you want to take it. i can see in your case its governed by rules but its just some info for you.

Thanks DJDrift - good info again. Yeh I've just been having the same discussion on suspension components (I gather it's the same brands you mention, as one was 1`/3rd the weight of the other, and I know that the "heavy" one is definitely very highly regarded.

I know the weight of the engine is pretty hard to control - and yes it's a heavy lump. Ideally, an SR20 Silvia is probably a more sensible choice (has already been homologated, and there are already a few running) but from what I am seeing, they will become very common, and I prefer to do something different.

Will definitely be tagging the cage to the shell wherever possible. That's pretty standard in my experience.

[GOT04]

this may help as ive done most of thing weight reduction to a r33 gtst

r33 weights 1395 standard

i dropped 95kg by

changing front seats to sparco spit fires

removed rear seats and seat belts with bolts

spear tire and jack

lighter racing wheels

half the sound dentiner

carbon boot lid

removed rear wing

thats was 95kg

i still have a/c in, to keep in leagle u need the heating element for the demister but with the the cooling gear my workshop says there is 20kgs to be lost from behind the dash and the engine bay

and i still have a standard bonnet and standard steal guards.

my chrome olly 7 point cages weights 25kgs.

i think u can get the car to 1200kg with touching everything but it wont weight 1200 with u in and a full tank of fuel.

and thats were it starts with u in it and fuel.

best of luck

[_Ryan_]

I tried to get to the weighbridge today but ran out of day, will try too this week for ya.

Mine is full trim minus power steering, which you definitely DO NOT NEED on dirt. The feel is f**king insane. I have 17x9+30, with rally wheels/tyres, the steering will be lighter.

Above listed weight loss and GTR guards and bonnet(or will you smash them? ) would have you doing well.

[DJRIFT]

Thanks DJDrift - good info again. Yeh I've just been having the same discussion on suspension components (I gather it's the same brands you mention, as one was 1`/3rd the weight of the other, and I know that the "heavy" one is definitely very highly regarded.

I know the weight of the engine is pretty hard to control - and yes it's a heavy lump. Ideally, an SR20 Silvia is probably a more sensible choice (has already been homologated, and there are already a few running) but from what I am seeing, they will become very common, and I prefer to do something different.

Will definitely be tagging the cage to the shell wherever possible. That's pretty standard in my experience.

a friend of mine was looking at building an r32. (well a few have talked about it) and it was decided that a r32 with the rb25de would be a better option because in my experiences turbos on dirt rally cars mean unfair restrictions within the rules. i Navigate in a NA bluebird and there is turbo blueies as well but they have such harsh rules to comply with. (thats my opinion of it any way) i think form the talk regarding the 25de. it could make more power, has more torque ect ect. they are nearly the same car but the biggest difference is they have 4 stud not 5 like the turbo model and single pot sliding calipers. im not sure if you could change the hubs withing the rules? the blueie i run in has a hilux rear end so maybe?

Regarding the brake topic earlier. you will fit r34gtt calipers and rotors under the stock rims and they are 30mm bigger rotors. same pad same look and cheapest bang for buck brake upgrade. thats if you even need it.

EDIT: you will be running 15" rims so im not sure on clearance.

the other real draw back of the r32 is the limited suspension travel. most people say they wouldnt have enough efficient travel for rally. the back end is the same as the s13 so if they are going ok than the back end must be ok but the issue is with the front end double wish bone setup. the S chassis car is different here and they can pick up more travel there.

anywho just some more food for thought.

[warps]

in my experiences turbos on dirt rally cars mean unfair restrictions within the rules.

Can you elaborate on that? 2WD PRC cars don't need to run a turbo restrictor (clearly stated in CAMS manual) - if that's what you're getting at.

I wouldn't entertain an RB25DE, as if I were going N/A route I'd be better off with a C110/C210 (or early Zed) with L28. With the knowledge base out there, a worked L28 will be better bang for bucks than RB25DE. Besides, a turbo engine makes such effortless, reliable torque, which is exactly what you want on the gravel.

Yeh, suspension travel might be an issue, but control arms are free, so might be able to custom fab longer arms for more travel - will have to have a good look at it.

I understand that there are some 15" rims that will fit over GTSt brakes, but not a hope in getting any to fit R33 or GTR brakes. That will probably be the buggest restriction. I have never needed massive brakes on a gravel car before - they are nowhere near as hard as brakes as a tarmac car, so I believe stock brakes will hold up well with decent pads and fluid (and some cooling ducts if necessary). Besides, I don't drive fast enough to need big brakes anyway

My nav and I have lost a combined 30kg over the last couple of years, so there's a big weight saving already. The car weight is measured without a crew or helmets, and without fuel because the car can not weigh less than the minimum weight at any stage of the event.