5 Dead To-day's Accident

[Mohsen]

yeah she survived.. a few of my mates know them. and the girl is a very close friends good friend..

they were doing 140... not sure what the limit is on plenty road, (70?) but they did the wrong thing and suffered the concequences.

dont want to sound like a heartless flamin mongrel. but i really feel bad for their familys but its people like that who ruin it for other p platers.

RIP

[Downforce]

last time i checked, a XR6 only has 5 seats/seat belts....

[Spunky Munky]

Guys, please don't start arguments on this thread since it's about the lost of 5 young lives. It's so sad. God bless their souls.

[FrangaR33]

My condolences to the families, but the car in this case has nothing to do with the accident, the 07 XR6 falcon has a great safety rating, traction control, Stability control the whole kit. No amount of safety equipment will make any difference when your driving like an idiot. Try driving a VN commodore and then get in a 07 Falcon and tell me the Falcon handles like a bucket of shit. No family car is designed to be driven at these sorts of speeds on these sorts of road.

[xALmoN]

any accidents are always pretty sad..

but why allow such young kids to handle such a powerful car?

When i was 19, all i had to drive was a suzuki 1.3L van.

[RBPOWA-(TJ)]

The News just said that when the car lost control the girl told the ambo's that her brother grabbed her and put her head in his lap and covered her very sad

[lukebaldan]

any accidents are always pretty sad..

but why allow such young kids to handle such a powerful car?

When i was 19, all i had to drive was a suzuki 1.3L van.

Absolutely tragic but realistically what else can be done to reduce the road toll?

Do we ban 6 cylinder cars as well or do we revise the power to weight limit (Effectively banning many 6 cylinder cars)? What impact would this have on the road toll?

I would be interested to see the ratio of high(legal)/low powered cars involved in fatal accidents with P platers at the wheel

What do people think? What steps should be taken to reduce horrific traffics involving young people?

Edited January 17, 2010 by lukebaldan

[RBPOWA-(TJ)]

without going off topic and starting a debate in here, aslong as there are idiots who think they can handle any situation, 8,6,5,4 cylinder cars, every car has

the potential to be push to its limits and alot of the times its a full car, so aslong as there are hero's out there with no brain restrictions wont matter

[funkymonkey]

If only there had been a speed camera there, none of this would have happened [/cynical].

there's 3 speed cameras further up plenty rd towards bundoora, and they always have bretho stations setup just after childs rd before the maccers. The guys that speed along that stretch are either not locals (which these guys were) or just don't care.

[GTR-N1]

What do people think? What steps should be taken to reduce horrific traffics involving young people?

May I answer your quite reasonable Q Luke with another Q?

Perhaps my radical thoughts should be best answered by young people since your Q related to exactly that - young people.

I'm just trying to do my best. You see, I'm not even Gen X. I'm a baby boomer trying to understand your thoughts as Luke prompted me to.

To get into the army, you need to do a Psych Test.

To get into the navy, it's the same.

And to become a commercial pilot of whom many are former fly-boys with the air force - a Psych Test is par for the course.

So why not leave current laws the same - except those who wish to gain sanction to drive a vehicle with strong power/wt?

These people would need to agree to certain condition such as...

1) Stages 1-3 advanced driving courses

2) Hours logged on wet road or skin pan

3) Hours of night driving

4) Psychological Temperament Testing

This special licence should also have an extra plus and that is a reduced insurance premium; not just a licence to drive a 'you-know-what'!

Before anyone poo-poos a Psych Test, may I offer you these advantages...

An MMPI-IV test can pick up diagnostically ...

a) bipolar

b) major depression

c) schizoid tendencies

d) psychopathic deviate tendencies

e) paranoia & aggression

f) hypomania

g) sociopathology

h) propensity to abuse alcohol

h) that he/she could lose lucidity with even small amounts of alcohol or drugs through brain neurotransmitter dysfunction... yaddayadda,

...conditions that can make a driver 'high risk' when there's pressure or an acute situation.

A good Psych Test like the one above from Uni Minnesota can pick up malingering/lying or even if the subject is only trying to answer to gain approval from the scorer.

The plusses are that roads would be safer to drive on because...

i) anyone who has a pathological condition may get treatment = an option

ii) anyone who has a pathological condition can opt not to get treatment and go through normal channels

iii) existing road users can possibly trust that higher quality drivers are sharing the roads with them

Can I pass this little snippet of constructiveness over to you guys now? I haven't a clue what some of you might think about the thoughts of a 60 yr old eh?

[lukebaldan]

Interesting take Terry.

I feel the problem with inexperienced drivers is due to 2 distinct issues:

-Experience

-Risk assessment

Yes i agree that new drivers need lots of experience in all conditions and compulsory advanced driving courses but addressing the general immaturity of young drivers is a tough one.

How do you explain to some one "Don't do this because this could happen to you" This is the biggest problem young drivers face: "Invincibility" if you want to call it that. Risk assessment is something that is developed certainly over time. No doubt first hand experience in a scary situation makes you realize how dangerous a car is.

Is shock treatment successful? Should young people be exposed to a fatal accidents aftermath?

Anyways, end of my rant

[RBPOWA-(TJ)]

dont know its its a joke but in some europe country part of the driving test is to perfect a hand brake drift and tail slide to understand the balance of the car.... ?

[R31Nismoid]

The current laws allow Ford and Holden to produce these type of cars for P platers, this is business. Furthermore, these cars are cheap to make and cheap to go fast in a straight line. Then kids (and some companies) forget about the brakes and suspensions to handle all that power. I'd take my chances in a Skyline than a Ford but that's not the point as you said (besides P platers can't drive GTRs). The point is these 6 kids should have known better, they should have checked each other but they didn't, and they picked the right car to speed quickly to 140km/h on suburban roads and hit a tree.

If the law enforces further restrictions on powered cars, in particular Holdens and Fords, this will affect business and big bosses don't want that.

Gotta be one of the silliest points made in a while.

You blame this on Ford/Holden is laughable at best.

To say Ford/Holdens should be restricted by Police is the same.

They do not produce the cars with P-Platers in mind, what a load of crock.

ANY car can get to 140km/h if you want to. The cars are never the problem. Its the people behind the wheel.

[KURAUN]

The current laws allow Ford and Holden to produce these type of cars for P platers, this is business. Furthermore, these cars are cheap to make and cheap to go fast in a straight line. Then kids (and some companies) forget about the brakes and suspensions to handle all that power. I'd take my chances in a Skyline than a Ford but that's not the point as you said (besides P platers can't drive GTRs). The point is these 6 kids should have known better, they should have checked each other but they didn't, and they picked the right car to speed quickly to 140km/h on suburban roads and hit a tree.

If the law enforces further restrictions on powered cars, in particular Holdens and Fords, this will affect business and big bosses don't want that.

actually id take my chances moreso in a what 2009? model ford than a r32 that latest goes to 94

considering that each year companies focus on more safety features im pretty sure they would be more chance of survival in the ford

and ford dont build these cars to sell to p-platers, they are actually just a family saloon with suspension/bodykit and a few extras over the base model

and im pretty sure that ford wouldnt be ignoring the breaks when it came to building a mass produced car

and furthermore doesnt matter which car your in, new or old, how fast it speeds up etc at 140km into a tree, well the results speak for themselves

last time i checked, a XR6 only has 5 seats/seat belts....

yeh but wasnt there some law (dunno if its been changed yet) that you can pretty much have as many people in the car as long as they are wearing a seltbelt

was a thread about it a while ago

Gotta be one of the silliest points made in a while.

You blame this on Ford/Holden is laughable at best.

To say Ford/Holdens should be restricted by Police is the same.

They do not produce the cars with P-Platers in mind, what a load of crock.

ANY car can get to 140km/h if you want to. The cars are never the problem. Its the people behind the wheel.

[KezR33]

The cars are never the problem. Its the people behind the wheel.

Couldn't agree more.

I've seen people do dumb shit in all sorts of cars, just the other night some guy in a Micra went flying by me down the freeway and nearly lost it going around a slight bend. Even after they corrected themself they continued to speed off weaving erractically through traffic.

[adgey]

A++ Top response Terry, I agree that they need to rethink their approach to the road tolls and how to prevent the deaths. It's time to focus on education and training/instruction rather than restricting and isolating young drivers from what they are inevitably going to be able to drive.

Whatever is happening at the moment isn't working....

May I answer your quite reasonable Q Luke with another Q?

Perhaps my radical thoughts should be best answered by young people since your Q related to exactly that - young people.

I'm just trying to do my best. You see, I'm not even Gen X. I'm a baby boomer trying to understand your thoughts as Luke prompted me to.

To get into the army, you need to do a Psych Test.

To get into the navy, it's the same.

And to become a commercial pilot of whom many are former fly-boys with the air force - a Psych Test is par for the course.

So why not leave current laws the same - except those who wish to gain sanction to drive a vehicle with strong power/wt?

These people would need to agree to certain condition such as...

1) Stages 1-3 advanced driving courses

2) Hours logged on wet road or skin pan

3) Hours of night driving

4) Psychological Temperament Testing

This special licence should also have an extra plus and that is a reduced insurance premium; not just a licence to drive a 'you-know-what'!

Before anyone poo-poos a Psych Test, may I offer you these advantages...

An MMPI-IV test can pick up diagnostically ...

a) bipolar

b) major depression

c) schizoid tendencies

d) psychopathic deviate tendencies

e) paranoia & aggression

f) hypomania

g) sociopathology

h) propensity to abuse alcohol

h) that he/she could lose lucidity with even small amounts of alcohol or drugs through brain neurotransmitter dysfunction... yaddayadda,

...conditions that can make a driver 'high risk' when there's pressure or an acute situation.

A good Psych Test like the one above from Uni Minnesota can pick up malingering/lying or even if the subject is only trying to answer to gain approval from the scorer.

The plusses are that roads would be safer to drive on because...

i) anyone who has a pathological condition may get treatment = an option

ii) anyone who has a pathological condition can opt not to get treatment and go through normal channels

iii) existing road users can possibly trust that higher quality drivers are sharing the roads with them

Can I pass this little snippet of constructiveness over to you guys now? I haven't a clue what some of you might think about the thoughts of a 60 yr old eh?

[Birds]

The Police needs to restrict those Fords/Holdens, simple as that.

LOL the police, law makers that they are! It's just that simple!

Another reason why no1 likes Fords they cant Handel for shit poor buggers

Come on man that doesn't even make sense.

The current laws allow Ford and Holden to produce these type of cars for P platers, this is business. Furthermore, these cars are cheap to make and cheap to go fast in a straight line. Then kids (and some companies) forget about the brakes and suspensions to handle all that power. I'd take my chances in a Skyline than a Ford but that's not the point as you said (besides P platers can't drive GTRs). The point is these 6 kids should have known better, they should have checked each other but they didn't, and they picked the right car to speed quickly to 140km/h on suburban roads and hit a tree.

If the law enforces further restrictions on powered cars, in particular Holdens and Fords, this will affect business and big bosses don't want that.

Holden/Ford don't target P platers nor is the demogaphic considered at all when developing and manufacturing a vehicle. There has never been a P plater market segment in Australia. The closest you get to it is the cheap 4 banger Jap cars which are within affordable reach of 18 year old girls but even then this demographic would hardly make up any significant proportion of sales.

The News just said that when the car lost control the girl told the ambo's that her brother grabbed her and put her head in his lap and covered her very sad

Good on him for thinking quickly, I don't know of many who would have that kind of reflex in that situation. Rest in peace I say but it's hard to feel sorry for anyone but the families, when everyone in the car is a party to it. I know when I did this kind of shit and survived it I felt like the biggiest twit in the world and did not expect anyone to feel sorry for me even as a passenger.

This can be done in any modern car...power restrictions aren't the answer (speed governors maybe?). Maybe a controversial viewpoint but I believe power restrictions do the opposite. I've driven cars before that were so powerful (to me) they made me scared to drive with anything but respect for the vehicle and not push it's limits. It's easy to get familiar with the limits/boundaries of a slow car and then start to push them or develop a sense of overconfidence. Some of the scariest times I've ever had in a car was in the backseat of a 4 cylinder Magna. F***ing nutjob driver, who I'm surprised is still alive. You wll never get rid of the speed demon attitude that alot of drivers have...it's been there since cars were mass produced and evolution won't fix that. Either increase the licensing age to a more mature age (which won't happen, not anytime soon anyway), or address the needs of this attitude and create a close by and cheap environment where speed demons can get their fix. Problem is, there's too much revenue to be lost on an effective solution.

[eMsta]

It is amazing that one person survived! That car is barely recognisable......

It is sad, but the driver was an idiot! Word is that he was restricted to only one passenger, and had prior speeding convictions, and was due to face court over failing to comply with a community based order that was handed down to him last year. I guess some people never learn - even if his license was suspended or whatever, he still would have gotten into the car and so would have his friends.

What is upsetting is what the families now have to go through - man, i would hate to think what my parents/brother/sis-in-law/relatives would all go through if this happened to me - hence why i hardly speed. Why dont people just learn from these kind of accidents and sit and think "oh shit, if i speed like that i would get royaly f**ked up!!" (remember that blue 34 gtr in NSW that got airborn, hit a tree, and ripped in half killing all 3?)

Perhaps police need to use more upsetting TV ads, bill boards, radio ads, stalls at motorshows or show n shine etc by showing crashed cars etc. Perhaps even need to show crashed cars at those drag days or track days - just so that people realise. Sometimes when we see things in person it gets imprinted better in our minds that "shit, that could be my car if i was being stupid and doing drifts or 120 in a 60 zone"

Thats terrible. Possibly 5 to 6 families being woken up by the police telling them a family member is dead or seriously injured.

Just read on news.com that two p-plate drivers were caught doing 170kmh and running red lights on Burwood Highway. It was a Supra and an Integra... at least it wasn't a Skyline.

Yep - 2 more idiots who will continue to f**k around on public roads. Apparently one of them laughed at the cops when he was told his car would be impounded. That indian dude who did the hit and run - that crash happened (killing that unborn baby) due to road rage, and he was doing 10 or 20 kph over. Imagine crashing into a car at 170kph!

If these idiots are caught, give them a jail term!! Dont give them chances....its just like those crims that go around beating and stabbing people - slap on the wrist aint going to help anyone.

[JEPPE]

Yes I know, what I meant was not to imagine being the girl, but to imagine being her dead brother and friends.

Ironically they have it the worst and the easiest.

It has nothing to do with the car when you're going at that speed... if anyone really wanted to do something about deaths related to speed they would put limiters on every car and keep it stringent. Doesn't work like that though although sometimes we wish it would. Five people would still be alive right now if that was the case. Having known people who have died on motorbikes and cars at both ridiculously high /and/ low speeds you know sometimes it can't be controlled.

[Phatboy]

I have the solution - automatic ejector seats a la 2F2F-style

They'd have to work on the design so it wouldn't cripple you. I'm sure some kind of airbag cushioning + parachute technology combined with small detonation charges on the A+B pillars to pop the roof off would be suitable. The car would have sensor technology so that if it detects a high-speed crash is unavoidable, the ejector mechanism would deploy.

Lost control and a second away from crashing into the tree? No problem, we've got you covered