$ Value Of Genuine Gibson Motorsport Rb20det

[31GUN]

If I happened to have a genuine complete Gibson motorsport RB20DET with the Gibson extractors and turbo, what would it be worth?

I'm not saying I have got one, just wondering what the dollar value would be if one came onto the market.

Hooks

[bozodos]

assuming that numbers matched and it was a complete motor then a fair bit I'd imagine

[[200]]

probably not a lot more than a modified rb20 (not much)

what makes the gibson motor so special against a workshop built motor?

[Iron Chef]

probably not a lot more than a modified rb20 (not much)

what makes the gibson motor so special against a workshop built motor?

If you don't know what it is, how are you qualified to put a value on it?

To the OP, something like this has never been on the market before (to my knowledge), so it's hard to know what it's worth. You basically need to hope the buyer think it's worth somewhere near what you do.

[PM-R33]

It's worth the value some one is willing to pay for it. Unfortunately i don't think it's one of those things you can put a price on since they aren't really for sale. Say you owned one, you might put $5000 on it and no one would buy it cause it doesn't mean anything to them but then some one that is a collector or something might came along and offer you a much higher sum since it is something they want to own.

Edited January 20, 2010 by PM-R33

[[200]]

If you don't know what it is, how are you qualified to put a value on it?

To the OP, something like this has never been on the market before (to my knowledge), so it's hard to know what it's worth. You basically need to hope the buyer think it's worth somewhere near what you do.

Unless I missed misread my own post I actually didn't put a dollar value on it did I?

I was simply saying that a modified rb20 doesn't sell for much at all and I couldn't see how this would be any different. It would be a very small market for a specific item like this and its value would depend on how much someone wanted to pay for it and what they wanted to use it for.

[paulR32gtr]

It's still an rb20.... not much prestige attached to it, a Gibson 26 on the other hand would definitely attract more interest for collectors

[R31Nismoid]

Unless you had a Gibson HR31 body to go with the motor, i couldn't see it being worth much.

Would only be worth something to a owner of one of the ex race cars really as a spare etc

[bozodos]

well thats what I was thinking, but also the fact that I assume the people who own the ex Gibson R31's are going to want as many period parts as possible.

There was a thread not long ago about the differences internally in those motors, didn't they have headwork and some secret cam profile?

[31GUN]

Yes, and blockwork, oiling work, a huge amount of developement went into the extractors.

Titanium valves, port work, cams, plugs, camwheels, balancing, Cosworth pistons.

To get those extractors remade would cost $9k or so, the guy still has the jigs.

Hooks

[R31Nismoid]

9k just for the extractors? Oh now that's a bit rich.

I've seen them first hand... i wouldn't say there is 9k unless they are made out of moonmetal.

They are nothing much over/above what you can get from Full Race or similar high end outfit's then theirs are what, 2.5k

[Jetwreck]

9k just for the extractors? Oh now that's a bit rich.

I've seen them first hand... i wouldn't say there is 9k unless they are made out of moonmetal.

$2,500? your shitting me are you not......If you could get the extractors made for $2,500 you would see alot more around on street and track cars would you not?.....just remember how much the standard GTs-R ones sell for second hand!!!....ps theres a bit more to them than how they look!

The difference between a GMS RB20 and 99% of the others is that you can develop above 300rwkw's and then thrash it non stop for about 2,500 km's or more. Not many 2lt motors out there from the 80's that can make claim to that.

It would probably cost you somewhere in the region of $20K to $25K to remake one to the exact same spec's....minus the ECU.

In saying that, and as said before, this would only be of value to someone who new and wanted it.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Jetwreck

[R31Nismoid]

$2,500? your shitting me are you not......If you could get the extractors made for $2,500 you would see alot more around on street and track cars would you not?.....just remember how much the standard GTs-R ones sell for second hand!!!....ps theres a bit more to them than how they look!

Extractors (read: exhaust manifold)... How much do you honestly think it costs to bend some metal & weld some pipe?

There is nothing more to them than they look. They flow better, place the turbo in a better spot for weight distribution/cooling, use a bt more metal than most low-mount manifolds.

Hardly 6k worth of creativity. Why? Because i know someone that sold his for $1500. That's all they are worth.

The only reason a GMS replica exhaust manifold will be 9k is because the owner of the jig's either;

1. Paid a pretty penny for them and is in a state of delusion over it.

2. Knows people after original manifold will pay the asking price.

I mean... when you spend 125k on a ex-race car then whats another 9k to replace something to keep it original?

Just because someone charges "X" price for something, does not mean that is what it's worth.

Full Race would arguably be one of the highest end makers of manifolds in the world for racing applications.

Perhaps a bit of research on your own behalf into Full Race might make you realise that there is no way some bended metal will cost 9k to reproduce for reliable, competitive high end racing even with some heavy R&D (which GMS & Full Race would both have)

thrash it non stop for about 2,500 km's or more. Not many 2lt motors out there from the 80's that can make claim to that.

Fact is, it's still a 2nd hand motor that has been pushed to the limits for who knows how long. If you break something, can you get a replacement for it?

Given that the turbo's were rebuilt each race meeting back in the day - It would also be interesting to know how often the motors were pulled down and refreshed etc.

Especially when the cars @ Historics are not running to the wire like they would have @ a Bathurst Race meeting in 1988.

Gotta wonder why that is don't you?

It would probably cost you somewhere in the region of $20K to $25K to remake one to the exact same spec's

Who cares? Probably not many people at all.

If the GMS motor costs you 20k to build/replicate or whatever... Begs the question - Why would you bother?

You could build a RB26/30 with that 20k and it would be more motor than a Gibson RB20 would ever be, and a hell of a lot more reliable give you don't have to wring its neck to get the same results

I already said clearly - it would only be worth something to the owner of a GMS HR31 Race Car.

If you owned one of the GMS HR31's. A spare GMS motor to go with it would be something you would most certainly see solid value in. I know i would if i owned one.

As to what that value would be, well... very tough to answer

[Roy]

Like anything, only worth what the market is willing to pay. I dont discount that it is worth upwards of 25k as a package. But where crazy ol MG owners pay 6k for a 150hp rebuild etc, and crazy old Escort owners pay 50k for BDA engines....sadly there are very few old men running around pining for a Gibson RB20DET-R. Especially since there is no shell to put it in so that t can go race. May as well just run a std motor with a turbo setup like my lil 20 and make 420hp on the cheap for weekend thrasher.

The other thing is there isnt a shortage of Gibson blocks and heads laying around, so even to the current owners of GMS cars i dont see them being in high demand by other owners.

Shame, because they are a sweet sounding engine that make good power!

I just need a bucket load of cash to buy a GMS GTS-R then i would be happy to buy one

[NZM.031]

yeh but who wants a 30/26?? they are lame and unoriginal... they a fad for the moment, like skinny jeans and vests

whats next? using a patrol 4.2L block with 26 head??

rb20's rock..

[Jetwreck]

Don't worry I read it as exhaust manifold not extractors.

Mate if you can get those EM's remade for $2,500K thats great.....should start selling them......quite a few people out there worldwide would lap them up. I have talked to people about those EM's from ex Gibson's + the guy that did them in the first place saying quite a bit of cash back in the day. I'm sure that there have been advances in technology since then so you could be right......wonder wether they would be able to get the R&D info directly from GMS......lol! Who sold his for $1,500? Terry? Chris? Rod? or the other guy down in VIC? Is there another set available? And you right on paying premium prices....they could just go to somewhere like Midas and get em made instead.....drop it off at 9AM pick it up at 5PM scenario aye?

As for the motor....the fact is you didn't answer my question on how many 2lt's......! Replacement parts....I don't get your question! Cars not running to the wire....probably not......If they get banged up now they can never be replaced.....back then they could drive at 10/10's and not have any regard for car as it was replaceable.

I know you obviously don't care but its not really all about you! I was actually talking about motor rebuild costs and I was specifying an estimate on what it would cost to remake an RB20DET motor to the same spec....I don't see your issue! I also understand why you are talking about other motors.....I am sure there are many motors (The RB26 out of the Winfield car for e.g....probably not a good e.g as it would cost way more that 20K) that you can get done for $20......my question to you is how many can race in a 2lt turbo class for e.g? If there was such a class of racing like that of cause.

As I said "In saying that, and as said before, this would only be of value to someone who new and wanted it".

Edited January 20, 2010 by Jetwreck

[R31Nismoid]

Don't worry I read it as exhaust manifold not extractors.

Mate if you can get those EM's remade for $2,500K thats great.....should start selling them......quite a few people out there worldwide would lap them up. I have talked to people about those EM's from ex Gibson's + the guy that did them in the first place saying quite a bit of cash back in the day. I'm sure that there have been advances in technology since then so you could be right......

Could you explain why people world wide would “lap them up” ???

Facts only are required here btw. No silly deflections & rubbish comments about Midas.

Just because you would gladly pay $9,000 to have someone weld & bend some metal to reproduce a GMS Exhaust Manifold – does not mean that is what it actually costs to make it.

See, unfortunately people are easily fooled in the name of restoration/preservation/originality. I could indeed imagine there would be people that would pay $9,000 for something that you could for even half the price just on that basis alone.

All because it didn’t come from the apparently “all important” GMS jig…

Rip your manifold off, take it to a decent fabricator and see what they say.

I’d be surprised if they said more than – lets even say half - $4,500.

As for the motor....the fact is you didn't answer my question on how many 2lt's......! Replacement parts....I don't get your question! Cars not running to the wire....probably not......If they get banged up now they can never be replaced.....back then they could drive at 10/10's and not have any regard for car as it was replaceable.

You never asked a question. You did however make a rather pointless statement (more on that later).

Banged up – is one reason they don’t drive the cars to the wire. Running the motor to the wire is a different story, and was my point.

A point you’ve clearly missed.

Back to your pointless statement - *how many 2ltrs make 300rwkw* - Anything can be done for a price.

So I’m not really sure what point your statement is trying to make.

Was also nice to see you avoided the point about strip/down & maintenance of motors in relation to this 2,500km claim of race km reliability.

Probably because you don’t even know right?

my question to you is how many can race in a 2lt turbo class for e.g? If there was such a class of racing like that of cause.

2ltr turbo class has nothing to do with the discussion which is around the following two issues

1. How much is this motor worth – only as much as a GMS Car owner will likely pay. Exact figures being very much impossible to define

2. $9,000 for a GMS Manifold (remade) – being a utterly ridiculous price

[iamhe77]

Who cares? Probably not many people at all.

If the GMS motor costs you 20k to build/replicate or whatever... Begs the question - Why would you bother?

You could build a RB26/30 with that 20k and it would be more motor than a Gibson RB20 would ever be, and a hell of a lot more reliable give you don't have to wring its neck to get the same results

RB26/30 in an historic GMS R31?... sacrilege

Edited January 20, 2010 by iamhe77

[R31Nismoid]

^ umm... duh. That is exactly why i said a GMS RB20 would only appeal to a GMS HR31 owner?

And that only a GMS HR31 Owner would realistically put a price tag to it.

Comprehend now?

Take the whole post in it's context - not a small quote

[iamhe77]

^ umm... duh. That is exactly why i said a GMS RB20 would only appeal to a GMS HR31 owner?

And that only a GMS HR31 Owner would realistically put a price tag to it.

Comprehend now?

Take the whole post in it's context - not a small quote

I did read your whole post and took it in context... as such I fail to see why you even mentioned an RB26/30 as it is irrelevant to the GMS HR31.

You could build an LS1(tt), VQ35DETT or VK45DETT with that 20k and it would be more motor than a RB26/30 would ever be, and a hell of a lot more reliable give you don't have to wring its neck to get the same results

*added for relevancy*