$ Value Of Genuine Gibson Motorsport Rb20det

[Jetwreck]

these are some pics from the old boys gt40, we figured out were the collectors had to be, tacked them in place with a rod, mocked up the pipes using tacked press bends of mild steel tube, then when it was all good, mandrel bent each individual tube out of thin stainless tube to replicate the mocked up tube, sent them away for coating, then tacked them in place on the flange, and then went round and completed the welding, cleaned up the collectors with a die grinder. they arent quite finished yet though.

we did the longest tube first, then used the length of that to do the other ones at equal length.

how long did it take?.....from ordering the pipe onwards? Taking it to get coated ect.....so all cost's added.....just trying to get a rough idea(I know it'[s V8 ect).....I am gathering the tubes are one piece with no welding other than on the flange and collector? That type of collector setup will not work for our R20 either.

P.S. When you get to do the RB20 let me know....I'll try to get as many photo's as you need if you need.....pretty sure we have a set off the car ATM.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Jetwreck

[Roy]

Ripz in NZ do some nice tubular manifolds

I dont know what they cost but they are not cheap and nor are they fully mandrel bent pieces

[NZM.031]

Nice,BUT, make that maifold using far tighter bends and twists to fit an in line 6 tucked close to the inner strut then hand a 6kg weight off it when its glowing red. I agree they are not impossible to make, but i looked closely at this back in 2000-2001 as i was working for a specialistwelding/fabrication company and as the Australasian agents for serck we did lots of shell ad tueb heat exchangers and at the time i had a good feel for the tube bending costs

i completly agree, this one was simple compared to the rb20 will be.. but its not impossible and just takes time and patience... my build plan is 3 years, so ive got nothing but time.

what were your findings on it roy?? is it not worth doing from a power and response point or expense point??

how long did it take?.....from ordering the pipe onwards? Taking it to get coated ect.....so all cost's added.....just trying to get a rough idea(I know it'[s V8 ect).....I am gathering the tubes are one piece with no welding other than on the flange and collector? That type of collector setup will not work for our R20 either.

P.S. When you get to do the RB20 let me know....I'll try to get as many photo's as you need if you need.....pretty sure we have a set off the car ATM.

farked if i know... it was an on & off type thing.. possibly took a year just to get the exhaust to where it is now... its a very slow going project.. has been 15 yrs in the build already. the exhaust has stayed like that for probably close to 6 years.

the tubes are all one piece yes from flange to collector .. thin stainless and very easy to bend... but not strong enough to hold 6kg off the end of it.. the collector will be different yes..

i honestly dont know when ill attack it... the engine plan is in the very distant future... but i do want to mount it lower and further back, i will do my best to give this manifold a red hot go... i have the time, i have the facilities, i know people with the know how, so i will keep you updated.. but dont expect anything in the next year sorry

any pics you could get for me would be greatly appreciated, if you want, make a post in my build thread so i wont forget and know where to find you .

cheers

Linton

[NickR33]

as usual people underestimate the cost of intellectual property... the money is in the design not the fab

and stop comparing modern tuner RB20's to Gibson motors... its about the history/collectability not the outright performance

Ash I agree with you on 99% of topics but feel your being a bit flippant here

I reckon if you could get hold of the full, genuine gibson RB20 setup you could build a replica shell that would make a pretty cool package overall... sure not worth as much as the genuine article and maybe not as quick or as cheap to build as a newer setup from <insert workshop name here>... but that's hardly the point

afterall most tuner setups nowadays would get destroyed by a new R35 so discussions about speed/power output are pointless... its about history, memories, fun etc and people will always have different opinions about the value of these things

[[200]]

And at the end of the day, it's still only going to be a dirty rb20 - regardless of how much research and development went in to it.

[Roy]

Hey, that dirty engine won Nissan the ATCC and the JTCC, and many rounds in the European series. If the shitty R32 GTR and its fat ass AWD system didnt weigh so much , then Nissan woud have stuck with the 2L capacity, but since they couldnt make the min weight for 2000cc then bumped it up to 2600cc knowing the AWD system pushed them up a class.

What has an SR20, RB25 etc ever done!

[paulr33]

how good is moonmetal

sounds like unobtanium

[NZM.031]

What has an SR20, RB25 etc ever done!

hahaha.... this man..... he knows!!

[NickR33]

What has an SR20, RB25 etc ever done!

ah... how about propelled countless silvias and skylines to mid 14 second quarter mile passes... take that Mr Brisby!

[31GUN]

Faaark! What have I started?

Some facts,

Fact- that manifold is not mandrel bent.

Fact- that manifold is not press bent.

Fact- there are no welds in the pipe.

Fact- they are designed to work better than anything you could knock up for $1500.

Fact- they are not worth $9k

Hahahaha let the games begi...er..continue, I'm enjoying this.

I have my answer btw, and it is a fresh engine.

Hooks

[[200]]

I am guessing 5k

[mad082]

Hey, that dirty engine won Nissan the ATCC and the JTCC, and many rounds in the European series. If the shitty R32 GTR and its fat ass AWD system didnt weigh so much , then Nissan woud have stuck with the 2L capacity, but since they couldnt make the min weight for 2000cc then bumped it up to 2600cc knowing the AWD system pushed them up a class.

What has an SR20, RB25 etc ever done!

i'm sorry, but when did the rb20 every win the ATCC? because as far as i'm aware the r31 only won about 4 or 5 races and was generally being beaten by ford sierras. but feel free to show info proving otherwise, but i know for a fact that dick johnson won both 1988 and 89 ATCC titles in a sierra (with team mate john bowe second both years), jim richards won the 87 titles in a bmw m3 (and glenn seton was second in a dr30 but that was FJ20 powered AFAIK), and we all know that the 1990 ATCC was won by the GTR. so at no time did the rb20 hold any title in australia.

Faaark! What have I started?

Some facts,

Fact- that manifold is not mandrel bent.

Fact- that manifold is not press bent.

Fact- there are no welds in the pipe.

Fact- they are designed to work better than anything you could knock up for $1500.

Fact- they are not worth $9k

Hahahaha let the games begi...er..continue, I'm enjoying this.

I have my answer btw, and it is a fresh engine.

Hooks

unless of course you got a hold of one and then (if you had the right setup) you could make a copy for under $1500 and then it would be just as good and a darn sight cheaper

[bozodos]

so are they a cast item then, if not welded, press bent or mandrel bent?

[31GUN]

The HR31 won the title in 1990. Richo only did the last 2 races in the GT-R (or was it the last round only at Oran Park?)

The making of the manifold did involve sand.

Hooks

[Roy]

I was once told the manifolds were cast but i was told by a pretty reliable source that was not the3 case, and thinking about it ... it would be very unusual to have a casting so thin.

And yes, Jimbo drove the R31 IN 1990, Skaife started playing with the GTR from Mallala but Richo held off until it was firstly reliable and quicker... for the last two rounds. But the R31and its RB20 was the work horse for the season that made the championship for Richo

[floody]

so are they a cast item then, if not welded, press bent or mandrel bent?

Doubtful. Sand bent most likely, tube ends sealed, tubes packed with sand, heated and bent around jig/formers. Much same result as mandrel bends but more labour intensive, more your craftsman method.

Mad082, reconsider your facts, Jim Richards won 3 rounds outright in 1990, and two rounds were in the HR31 GTS-R as the R32 GT-R was nowhere near sorted until the end of the year. Personally, IMO that means the HR31 'won' it.

The Beaurepaires entry also placed in the top ten at a few rounds, in fact out placed the GMS cars at the GP support round and Bathurst.

George Fury won Winton in the '89 season, although that year saw lots of cooling and gearbox issues for the 31s.

The Japanese Calsonic team won almost every round of their season in '89. Anders Oloffson ran well in late '88 and '89 WTCC rounds in the Ricoh backed car.

Alan Grice/Win Percy had considerable success at selected ETCC/BTCC rounds in '89 in the Nissan Motorsport Europe entry but did not complete a full roster.

The ex-group A cars were highly successful in mostly group A mechanical spec during the pre JGTC years of the JSS (up to '93 or so).

I would say the RB20DET-R actually has considerable provenance as a successful race engine.

Edited January 21, 2010 by floody

[NZM.031]

i thought the sand way was just another form of mandrel bending?? i thought mandrel bending was any form of bending keeping the same diameter??

[Roy]

Just sms'd my mate re where he heard they were cast and he tells me he read it in HPI so ???? What floody has posted makes far more sense

[NZM.031]

damn that would be some epic casting mould!

[Beer Baron]

i thought the sand way was just another form of mandrel bending?? i thought mandrel bending was any form of bending keeping the same diameter??

no mandrel bending is a form of bending where you use a mandrel...to bend.... hence the term 'mandrel bent'. it's name has nothing to do with the fact that you can bend whilst maintaining pipe diameter. if it did it would be called "same pipe diameter retention bending". the name refers to the method of bending not the outcome. like "press bent" "mandrel bent" "cast" etc.