R32 rear brakes onto r30/c210 IRS

[cul202]

contact Datspeed in Kingswood, Western Sydney. they do alot of brake conversions into older nissans/datsuns. they might be able to tell you a good direction to go & supply kits for fitting

[PHaT MR30]

Brian its Tim here from 910Bluebird Club.

The R30 Disk rear end doesn't have drums, it is a handbrake operated caliper.

However if your trailing arms have the stubs for a caliper to mount i have seen R31 rear discs fitted to these.

Anyway a man with your intelligence would be able to figure it all out. early R32 Gts(t)s were 4 stud maybe the rear disc off one of them?

Anyway i am looking forward to seeing ur IRS conversion.

Ive still got the bluebird an ever fairthful car

[Ghostrider]

Ghostrider - a solid rotor with a single piston calliper is BEST for road use?  Please tell me how this setup is superior to a vented rotor with two piston calliper in braking power, control, and heat tolerance.  Its lighter, but thats about it.  

My car is vastly improved with the new setup, even as a commuter.  This is because I have more control on the limit, and a balanced setup.  On more than 1 occasion I have pulled up short, whereas with the std brakes there would have been an impact.

Road use...... I have cracked my stock pads and rotors from road use.  Depends on what sort of "road use" the car is getting.  Again, the solid rotor with single piston calliper is inferior, you dont have as much control when trying to brake hard, and it wont be able to handle as much heat under duress.  So now youve got rear brakes fading and doing bugger all.

A single piston with solid rotor is cheaper and easier.  If you arent going gung ho, and its really just a commuter then just do as ghostrider says, and use good pads and fluid (and slotted rotors if youre keen).  

If you go in deep and hard under brakes, especially on tight roads for extended periods (read: mountains) or you are doing trackwork and your stock setup cannot handle the heat, or give you the power and feel you want, then a bigger rear brake setup is a good idea along with a matching set of fronts.

P.S.  With a big front brakes, and small rear brakes - 33 GTR fronts, and stocko solid rears, you are not going to be able to use the fronts to their full potential.

Slip,

I don't want to get into a fight over this, but R31 standard rear rotors are 260 x 10.4. How do they even remotely compare to a DR30 rear at 290 x 10 and your current setup, R32 or equivalent is only 297 x 18. How can it be worth the $$$$$'s to convert a road car, from 290 x 10 to 297 x 18? You must rely a whole lot on your rear brakes.

WE ARE talking DR30 rears, not stock MR30 rears.

Even as a part time racer, Club Cars only do 5 laps of Oran Park + warm up and cool down, MAX of 10 laps at a time. Using slotted rears and EBC/Endless etc, etc, compound rear pads, they would be lucky to be up to full operating temperature by end of race.

Even Datniss at Kingswood agrees the conversion wouldn't be of any great advantage over DR rears.

I have mates with DR's and MR's that often do cruises in the Adelaide Hills, the MR has stock R31 brakes all round with EBC pads and the DR is stock and they have NEVER lost rear brakes through fade, due to excess temperature.

The R31 brakes in standard form, are inferior to DR30's. I can understand you having problems with the standard set up, but we are not talking standard set up, we are talking a disc rotor similar in diameter to what you have now!

[Ghostrider]

Ghostrider - a solid rotor with a single piston calliper is BEST for road use?  Please tell me how this setup is superior to a vented rotor with two piston calliper in braking power, control, and heat tolerance.  Its lighter, but thats about it.  

My car is vastly improved with the new setup, even as a commuter.  This is because I have more control on the limit, and a balanced setup.  On more than 1 occasion I have pulled up short, whereas with the std brakes there would have been an impact.

Road use...... I have cracked my stock pads and rotors from road use.  Depends on what sort of "road use" the car is getting.  Again, the solid rotor with single piston calliper is inferior, you dont have as much control when trying to brake hard, and it wont be able to handle as much heat under duress.  So now youve got rear brakes fading and doing bugger all.

A single piston with solid rotor is cheaper and easier.  If you arent going gung ho, and its really just a commuter then just do as ghostrider says, and use good pads and fluid (and slotted rotors if youre keen).  

If you go in deep and hard under brakes, especially on tight roads for extended periods (read: mountains) or you are doing trackwork and your stock setup cannot handle the heat, or give you the power and feel you want, then a bigger rear brake setup is a good idea along with a matching set of fronts.

P.S.  With a big front brakes, and small rear brakes - 33 GTR fronts, and stocko solid rears, you are not going to be able to use the fronts to their full potential.

slip,

Re your PS. How so?

R33 GTR V Spec have 324 x 30 Front & 300 x 22 rear. How that much different to my 290 x 10 rears, as the ventilated 22 mm rears, (vents for cooling) considering I am stopping a vehicle about 400+ kg lighter than R33 GTR.

With the back plates removed, allowing greater air circulation around the rotors, cooling would be enhanced and heat not as much a factor.

[slip]

Well you've dropped 10mm rotor diameter, 12mm width, gone vented to solid, and single piston calliper. I dont see how you could still use the 33 GTR fronts to their FULL potential with a rear set that is smaller in every respect. Especially if you are having to play with the bias valve to take some power away from the fronts to give more balance. I do definately understand what you are saying, and agree that it many cases the rear 290mm setup you propose will suffice, but I do not think it's the BEST.

I may also be a bit biased in how I look at all this, as our Mt Nebo runs usually go for a fair while, and its very tight. Can be very hard on brakes. Cracked 32 GTSt DBA slotted front rotors will attest to this.

You are right about DR30 rears being sufficient for road/minor track.

I think I am right about them not being the BEST setup, specifically when used with GTSt/GTR fronts.

What it really comes down to, is the judgement of the individual. For most people, DR30 rears may be fine, but for myself, I could not spend the money upgrading the fronts, and leave the rears as solid rotor/single piston calliper. I am glad I didn't.

Notes: Some high performance mass produced motorbikes and racebikes are scaling down their front rotor diameters, and using a superior calliper mounting style and getting equal or better braking. there are specific reasons for this, but it demonstrates that calliper clamping force and control is an important factor.

Porche, Ford, and Holden (FPV and HSV mainly) to name 3, are using 4 piston rear callipers on their latest and greatest, with big rear rotors. I do not believe that only 15% of the braking should, or can, be done by the rears. I would like to attribute 0-15% rear braking force to a roadbike instead, although I have no doubt that many cars may only have a small percentage of braking done through the rears. (How many cars can you lock up the fronts on, and still plow forward feeling like the rears are doing bugger all. If the rears were doing more, the fronts wouldn't have locked so easily...so on and so forth)

Glad that this is still a discussion not an argument or slinging match. :inlove:

[Ghostrider]

Well you've dropped 10mm rotor diameter, 12mm width, gone vented to solid, and single piston calliper.  I dont see how you could still use the 33 GTR fronts to their FULL potential with a rear set that is smaller in every respect.  Especially if you are having to play with the bias valve to take some power away from the fronts to give more balance.  I do definately understand what you are saying, and agree that it many cases the rear 290mm setup you propose will suffice, but I do not think it's the BEST.

I may also be a bit biased in how I look at all this, as our Mt Nebo runs usually go for a fair while, and its very tight.  Can be very hard on brakes.  Cracked 32 GTSt DBA slotted front rotors will attest to this.  

You are right about DR30 rears being sufficient for road/minor track.  

I think I am right about them not being the BEST setup, specifically when used with GTSt/GTR fronts.

What it really comes down to, is the judgement of the individual.  For most people, DR30 rears may be fine, but for myself, I could not spend the money upgrading the fronts, and leave the rears as solid rotor/single piston calliper.  I am glad I didn't.

Notes:  Some high performance mass produced motorbikes and racebikes are scaling down their front rotor diameters, and using a superior calliper mounting style and getting equal or better braking.  there are specific reasons for this, but it demonstrates that calliper clamping force and control is an important factor.    

Porche, Ford, and Holden (FPV and HSV mainly) to name 3, are using 4 piston rear callipers on their latest and greatest, with big rear rotors.  I do not believe that only 15% of the braking should, or can, be done by the rears.  I would like to attribute 0-15% rear braking force to a roadbike instead, although I have no doubt that many cars may only have a small percentage of braking done through the rears.  (How many cars can you lock up the fronts on, and still plow forward feeling like the rears are doing bugger all.  If the rears were doing more, the fronts wouldn't have locked so easily...so on and so forth)

Glad that this is still a discussion not an argument or slinging match. :inlove:

YEH!!! Isn't it good that some sanity can prevail, I used to be in the Nissan SVD forum until recently, they're all mates and don't they stick together and gang up on newies, or not part of the click.

Slip, I have a GTS1 oil cooler complete and I'm told it mounts behind the vents in the front air dam, drivers side. You think it possible to fit to R30 in similar spot?

Exactly what brake set up did you settle for????

Maybe I think I should use smaller fronts, maybe R32 GTR (296 x 32) THIS WAS RECOMENDED or Z32 (280 x 30) and stay with the DR30 rears. I might investigate the R33 GTR rears (300 x 18) see how difficult they are to fit, but wheels and spacers will then have to be considered and my main thing was COST, was it worth the extra dollars to upgrade to vented rears.

DBA ROTORS???????????????????????? I don't like the little YELLOW note they put inside the packaging "warranty void if used in race conditions or for racing" that didn't sit well with me, so sent them back and bought BREMBO for less money.

When I get mine finished I'll give you a call, I will be taking it up to Brisbane for a run, I have friends at Gold Coast and Brisbane that want to see it.

[rsx84]

ghostrider: spoke to that place you posted the number for yesterday and with my hr30 i'd have to swap the whole rear end to use the dr30 rear disks and its $1500 for the diff alone r200 4:3 ratio?? any advise?

[Ghostrider]

RSX,

That's gotta be bullsh#t, I bought an assembly off them about 2/3 years ago for $500 disc to disc and it included everything hanging off the cross member, incl R200 4.1 LSD.

WHY? you want 4.3??? you planning on accelerating up telegraph poles.

I have a spare Nissan R200 3.9 LSD, but not prepared to part with it just yet, and DR lower control arms, but again, not prepared to part with them either at present

I will check for you and get back to you.

[Ghostrider]

RSX84,

Disc to Disc, same place, NO DIFF (use your own) $500.00, but that's quoted to me, I might get a better deal because I have bought a lot of stuff off them over the last few years.

Come back to me if I can help in any way.

That goes for all interstate guys that wish to buy through Sydney.

I can probably organise freight at a reasonable cost in a couple of weeks, but would have to be picked up from the depot in each respective state.

[PHaT MR30]

if you really want to know a big change in braking difference i am about to swap the single piston 250x18mm rotors and calipers off my silvia for some ~280x30 (not sure on the exact size cos i was assuming they are 300, but weren't) with 4 piston calipers.

now i seriously can't understand how they got away with putting those size brakes on a silvia cos they don't pull up at low speeds, let alone high speed, wait for the big improvement.

[Ghostrider]

280 x 30 are Z32 fronts.

We still in front of you, cause we talking 296 x 32 minimum up front, it's rears that all the discussion is about.

[PHaT MR30]

280 x 30 are Z32 fronts.

We still in front of you, cause we talking 296 x 32 minimum up front, it's rears that all the discussion is about.

Oh hmm id like rotors that big on my car, but i guess id need new calipers aswell as rotors (unless i can make up a mounting bracket?)

well id be interested to know aswell about the rear brake upgrade.

[Ghostrider]

PHaT MR30,

The 280 x 30 Z32 upgrade will be heaps easier if you have DR30 front stuts and then you may not want your Z32 brakes as DR's are 274 x 22, single piston but a big increase on your present set up.

[Ghostrider]

EXPRESSIONS OF INTEREST PLEASE

I have a set of DR30 front strut assemblies complete.

Both sides, disc rotors, callipers, springs etc.

PM me if interested, don't want a mud fight for them on here.

SSS Automotive at Girraween NSW wants $550.00 pair

[PHaT MR30]

PHaT MR30,

The 280 x 30 Z32 upgrade will be heaps easier if you have DR30 front stuts and then you may not want your Z32 brakes as DR's are 274 x 22, single piston but a big increase on your present set up.

Sorry i neglected to mention this was on my S13

i could only wish for them on my r30

[PHaT MR30]

Just a question, off topic really, but are the calipers the same on the front of Z32, R32, and R33?

They look the same anyway, but i mena i have the calipers now. i was looking at some calipers with bolt on hats, and you can get these in different size/height

i personally want a taller hat so i can keep my volks on the car

[Ghostrider]

We have had many a discussion on this about R32 brakes on R30's.

I recently spoke to a couple of guys, very big in rallying with 1600's and upwards.

When I bounced the theory of them, their answer was this:

It will be a very expensive exercise and unless your going to RACE it, why bother, the Z31 rears can be made fit relatively easily and at a fraction of the cost.

As for BALANCE etc, as posted by slip, may I just say, The DR30 Skylines raced in the late 80's by Fred Gibson Motorsport, driven by George FURY and Glen SETON had the following brake specs:

Fronts 335 x 32 ventilated and Rears 290 x 25 ventilated, all 4 spot callipers, but REMEMBER, THIS WAS A FULL ON RACE CAR.

I have been investigating the option, but discounted it due to cost and value, for what the car will be used for.

[rsx84]

from what i can gather from all the info here is that the dr30 rears will fit to the r30 irs! and the same goes with the dr fronts as long as you use the right assembly,in both cases! excessive upgrading may be a waste of time and money!!

[Ghostrider]

Just got a Ball Park figure to fit BNR32 GTR rear brakes to our R30 IRS rear trailing arms from Specialised Brake & Clutch at St Mary's NSW. That being about $1000.00 give or take!

[Ghostrider]

I would rather spend the grand on something else, like DOT 5 Brake Fluid and EBC or ENDLESS or equally as good other pad compounds and slotted rotors.

Maybe some ducting to cool the disc rotors as well.