R33 - 300rwkw! HELPP

[KamikazeR33]

if u know the right people u can get this power goal for alot less than u have 2 spend

stuff retail prices etc

[Guest Robo's]

I did this set up on a R33 GTST a while ago and it improved its 1/4 time by 0.5 of a second. You would need a heap more horsepower (and cash) to get that result from the engine alone.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread there

Happy New Year to all

Ive got Tein suspension all round and the back is not too low, and i consider it to ride as hard as a rock and with my street Sumitono's HRZT i ran a best 60 footer of 1.94 with heaps of others in the 2.0 bracket. On the positive side i was running low 20psi in the tyres and getting plenty of heat into them,

[Sydneykid]

Hi Robo's, you're right, getting the tyre pressures set correctly is very important. A pound or two either way makes a difference and lower pressure is better.

You can get away with stiffer rear suspension if the track is very smooth and prepared, but the road is never that smooth. There are always ripples, bumps and ridges to trip up the rear end under high power and 300 rwkw is certainly in that catagory.

The more power you have the harder it is to get the launch right as the margins between bog and wheelspin get smaller with every kw. Ohh and that GTST did a 1.68 for 60', so there is always room to go faster but the gains are smaller and much harder work.

That's enough hijacking of this thread for me.

[Steve]

Have you ever tried dialing in a degree or two of posititve camber to offest the irs squat?

I have heard of people acutally compressing the rear suspension when getting wheel alignment, to allow for the geometry change when under power.

Any comments?

[Sydneykid]

Hi Steve, if you adjust the camber using top and bottom, inner and outer offset bushes, you don't get a lot of camber change. You can set up a drag car so that it stays pretty much 0 camber over the range of movement. As you suggested, it starts out slightly positive and ends up slightly negative. We check this by removing the springs and jacking the chassis up and down on the wheel aligner.

We know how much the suspension compresses by using cable ties on the shock shafts. After a run we can determine how much the suspension compressed by measuring where the cable ties ended up on the shaft.

Conversely we set up the circuit race cars so that they have pre determined compensation for the body roll and tyre compression with camber change. The camber change angles over the range of suspension movement is very important, we only have 240 mm of tyre width and I like to use it all, all of the time. Due to budget we can be bit more sophisticated, we use the data logging facility on the Motec dash and a set of movement resistors to determine the range of suspension travel in each corner. So I can end up with different static camber and different rates of change on each corner of the car.

A road car would be set up somewhere in between.

So in all cases the rate of camber change is just as important (maybe even more so) as the static camber.

Oooops, that well and truly hijacked the thread, sorry...

[BU5TER]

Sydneykid the gtst you mention did it do that 60ft on radlial tyres?

[BU5TER]

I've got well over 300rwkw and do not lose traction after 1st gear, I have set the car up for traction and do run semi slicks as everyday tyres

[JimX]

$11k is a lot of moolah to spend on a GTS-t in stock form. My car has at least that much worth of mods on it, but I bought the car with a lot of the mods already in place.

If I a full $11k extra to start with, I would have preferred to buy a GTR. The only reason I didn't was because it was just a little too far out of my budget. At the time (1.5 years ago) the cheapest GTR was $30k. I had about $25k to spend all up including insurance and rego, so it was just too far out of my budget.

If I had the money again today, I think I could squeeze an R32 GTR into my budget But now the money's been spent on the GTS-t and it's got some nice mods, and I wouldn't wanna "upgrade" to a stock GTR with it.

[Roy]

The 4WD of the GTR is of course an advantage, but i was amazed to see how little the torque gauge moves on R33 GTRs at the track. Even on turns 2 and 9 at Eastern Creek, and coming onto the straight at Wakefield, so the balance and handling of the GTR owes more to the basic susp config and chassis then the 4wd...

So throw in the added weight, the additional stresses of 4wd and the additional cost of GTR, and only 100cc advantage over an RB25DET, i think the R33 GTST is about the perfect platform for a well rounded performance car. (Kind of same thinking as why Porsche chose RWD for GT2 & GT3 performace flagships)

And i will aways believe that a RWD car is more fun & challenging to drive, and im not into competive motorsport so dont really care if im not the quickest car out there.

Am i right in assuming you can have a 300rwkw GTST cheaper then a 300rwkw GTR (assuming both R33s)?

[R31Nismoid]

So throw in the added weight, the additional stresses of 4wd and the additional cost of GTR, and only 100cc advantage over an RB25DET, i think the R33 GTST is about the perfect platform for a well rounded performance car. (Kind of same thinking as why Porsche chose RWD for GT2 & GT3 performace flagships)

It might be only a 100cc more... but the whole design and composition on the motor is totally different with the 26. That's where the bigger differences are, not the extra few cc's

[Guest INASNT]

It might be only a 100cc more... but the whole design and composition on the motor is totally different with the 26. That's where the bigger differences are, not the extra few cc's

care to explain to us all these differences??

[Roy]

Ok so the valvetrain and inlet systems etc are a little different, but the basis of the RB25 engine is sound, and with VCT etc there is no reason why it cant be the basis of a very sporting engine.

[R31Nismoid]

but isnt the RB26 an square motor, allowing more rev's to occur ???

I know there are differences like that but im not too technical so i wont go throwing around terms i dunno how to use

internals are alos stronger too.

Yeah the basic RB bit is the same... but then, apply that to all RB motors.

[Guest INASNT]

I know there are differences like that but im not too technical so i wont go throwing around terms i dunno how to use

internals are alos stronger too.

but u said this just before

"It might be only a 100cc more... but the whole design and composition on the motor is totally different with the 26. That's where the bigger differences are, not the extra few cc's"

so u aint technical but the whole design and composition is different?? how do u know this if u aint so technical?

[R31Nismoid]

but u said this just before  

"It might be only a 100cc more... but the whole design and composition on the motor is totally different with the 26. That's where the bigger differences are, not the extra few cc's"

so u aint technical but the whole design and composition is different?? how do u know this if u aint so technical?

Bah, go stick it in your ass Denham, you know what i mean. :upurs:

I said in my other post

now. stop using this thread as an excuse to get your jollies over stirrung me up (again :rofl)

[Guest INASNT]

now. stop using this thread as an excuse to get your jollies over stirrung me up (again :rofl)

hehehe

[predator]

Here we go again, the endless argument off that a bit....

I think these days, going to stock GTS-T to "stock GTR equivelent" is just not cost effective, *unless* you already pick up a reasonably modded GTS-T for only $2-3k more than a stocker. If you can buy a nice 32 or 33 GTS-T which has already the basics covered (suspension, intercooler, basic ecu mod, exhaust), you've got a great base to go further and you haven't spent the earth (nevermind time off the road and running back and forward). Just there you've saved maybe $5k as the stuff is already on the car and (hopefully!) all sorted and tuned nicely which somebody else has spent the $ on. Then all you really have to worry about is the turbo and getting it all refined. Even if the XXXX on the car is not what you decide you want, you can always sell those components and change them for what you're really after, and the "cross-grade" generally won't cost you too much.

The days of getting something from japan at a cheap cost are gone. Its all about the satisfaction of doing it "your" way, which can't be counted in $$$ i guess.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I agree with the tyres/suspension thing. I had a 180 that had 270rwkw on street tune or 327rwkw with good fuel. 270rwkw with 245's with a nice launch on grippy street would spin through 2nd and kick a bit sideways into 3rd. Put 195's on it (a heavy gts-t with 300rwkw would be not much better than this) and it was fun for a while but could easily get beaten by stockish cars till 4th. In other words 300rwkw is useless unless you have good suspension and tyres... and they are equally as expensive as engine mods.

[Guest Robo's]

I think there is a point where too much RWKW is pointless for the street. Why people go beyond this point bewilders me, unless they want a 1/4 car, or a dyno queen. Each to there own i suppose.

[Roy]

I know there are differences like that but im not too technical so i wont go throwing around terms i dunno how to use internals are alos stronger too.

RB25 - 86 x 71.7mm

RB26 - 86 x 73.7mm

So neither engine is square.

Yeh, ok the metallurgy of RB26 parts is better then other RB engines, but how many of us are building race engines where differences can be realised? It woud seem that forged pistons are all that is required for those wanting bigger hp and additional headstart on reliability.

Maybe im over the hill, just turned 27 and the appeal of spending all my disposable income on my car has vanished, i think back to early uni lectures where they preached mech eng 101 "dont over engineer for the sake of it"

So what is a realistic shopping list for an RB25 owner chasing 300rwkw?

- Turbo, wastegate, manifold, water/oil lines - $5000

- ECU, Injectors and fuel pump installed and tuned - $3500

- Forged pistons and rings - $2000

- Clutch and flywheel - $2000

- Cams and cam gears - $1600

- General machining, balancing, bearings, gaskets, stud bolts etc - $2000

- Intercooler - $1500

- Full exhaust inc dumps - $1500

- BOVs (i know some dont think necessary but if im flowing enough cfm for 300rwkws id want two of the bastards doing there thing) - $500

Radiator(???) - $700

Then depending on the age/condition of engine things like reco head, new valve springs, new diff, better susp and tyres plus the other 30 otherthings that go into building a reliable 300rwkw engine?

blah, blah, blah, im talking too much