Hks 2.8 "step Zero"

[Blitz]

The line of questioning is going down the path to ascertain if a 2.8 kit could be punched out to 2.9 or thereabouts which would go as neas as hell to giving you the 3 litre without the grief.

Yep, pretty sure Racepace and 1 or 2 others have done a 2.9 which I understand was based on a 2.8 crank - Could be wrong though.

[N1GTR]

Noel; 79.4mm crank, 119mm rods, 86.5/87mm custom pistons, that's "RB29" done.

Its worth noting that RB capacity always seems to be rounded up, for example 77.7 (Tomei, HKS) and an 86.5mm bore comes to ~2738cc's but its called a 2.8. 79.4 stroke and 87mm pistons comes to ~2832cc's and is known as a 2.9. Apexi used to sell a kit just like that.

It gets closer to 3L capacity but still comes up short on the stroke of a 30 crank.

[Blitz]

Noel; 79.4mm crank, 119mm rods, custom pistons, that's 2.9 done.

It gets close to 3L capacity but still comes up short on the stroke of a 30 crank.

So is the 2.9 actually based on a 2.8 crank?

[FineLine]

So basically a custom everything Steve. I'll stay with the forklift variant.

[N1GTR]

So is the 2.9 actually based on a 2.8 crank?

No.

[FineLine]

No.

Is it based on the rd28 diesel crank ?

[N1GTR]

So basically a custom everything Steve. I'll stay with the forklift variant.

Mate there's 3 companies I know of who are making, or have made 2.9 kits;

Apexi (NXTIME has one for sale, otherwise super rare)

Brian Crower (Uses a 79mm stroke and 86mm pistons)

The other company may not want details published yet until it's up and running so I wont say, but they are Australian so thats good to see. Uses a 79.4mm stroke.

Keep your RB30 setup - its all done and dusted anyway

[N1GTR]

Is it based on the rd28 diesel crank ?

No.

Made from a new block of billet, eg (thanks to google images);

Edit: I'm talking about the locally developed crank here. Not the RP one, eventhough the RP one is also made from a new billet block.

[R31Nismoid]

Is it based on the rd28 diesel crank ?

Neither.

given the cost of buying a new nissan crank, some rods and pistons is the same (if not more) than the HKS kit it made good sense to give it a try.

Doesn't come close to the ~$5,000-$5,500 for the Step 0 kit. Not really sure how it's the same, or more at all.

Crank - $1100 / Pistons - $1400 / Rods - $1100

$3600

Lets be realistic if we are comparing prices, the HKS kit is nowhere near the same price. Its over 35% more expensive.

Not talking "mates mate rates here either". I'm talking what you can get it from right now over the next from RHDJpn/Greenline etc.

[N1GTR]

Neither.

Doesn't come close to the ~$5,000-$5,500 for the Step 0 kit. Not really sure how it's the same, or more at all.

Crank - $1100 / Pistons - $1400 / Rods - $1100

$3600

Lets be realistic if we are comparing prices, the HKS kit is nowhere near the same price. Its over 35% more expensive.

Not talking "mates mate rates here either". I'm talking what you can get it from right now over the next from RHDJpn/Greenline etc.

Don't be so generous on those RB26 prices

Pistons; $1050 delivered (cheaper from USA but lets stay local)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CP-Pistons-Sets-Nissan-Skyline-rb26-87-Bore-sc7311-/140446961059?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b34a8da3

Rods; $699/695

Nick likes ATTKD so lets use them; http://www.justjap.com/store/product.php?productid=18050&cat=251&page=1

Or save $5 and go SPOOL; http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-conrods/nissan-rb26-conrods

Crank; $1399

http://www.justjap.com/store/product.php?productid=16277&cat=&page=1

Total; $3148.

This is assuming a new crank is actually needed, we are all smart enough here to know that's not always the case.

.....carry on.....

[Beer Baron]

Is there any real benefit to a 2.8 kit. a 26 will bore to 2.7 so it seems like an awful lot of coin to tip in for an extra 100cc's ?

yeah as piggaz said it's the increase in stroke which makes all the difference to the 'character' of the engine. it makes a given power stroke longer so for it to happen in the same time as a shorter stroke engine the longer stroke will be harder (higher piston speed). hence the torque gain.

also, overboring and engine has the big downside of reducing material in the block. they are weak enough as is. personally I'd never go over 86.5mm in an RB26 (standard bore is 86mm btw). once you get to 87 and 87.5mm you are getting very thin cylinder walls in places. not a problem if you only want 250kw and it's a street car but if it's a 400kw track car you might find yourself in difficulty.

so boring for more capacity is not really doable with the RB26 (unless you want to fit liners which can be done but costs $$), and beside that it doesn't give the same result as changing the stroke length anyway.

[Beer Baron]

yeah ok price may not be the same between replacing 26 parts and the HKS kit but I mostly see cranks new for around $1500. pistons if we want to compare, compare them to something top shelf like tomei/HKS etc. talking more like $1500-$1800. rods, say $1000 (can get tomei's for that price these days which is dirt cheap for them). so that gets me to about $4,000 or so. yes still cheaper than the HKS kit, but you are getting top shelf gear and an increase in stroke. so if that's what you want it's still a bloody good option.

anyway, I don't want to make it a massive debate. in the course of a build if you gave people the choice of a bargain 26 bottom end for say $3,000 + labour or a top shelf 26 bottom end for $4K parts + labour or a 2.8 option for another $1,000 or so and labour cost will be the same I know what most people would chose.

* didn't include the other bits like bearings etc as these are the same no matter if you go the 26 gear or the 28 HKS gear.

[tweety bird]

blitz did you change the compression ratio with your build?

bb i thought you were bsing us with ( rods, say $1000 (can get tomei's for that price these days which is dirt cheap for them) but i went on ebay and but i'm not convinced though because there description say that they are vq35 rod's and thay are the are the same price as vq35 conrods.

the cheapest i could find elsewhere were $1400 so i don't no what's going on, bad listing?

[elrodeo666]

Been watching this thread with interest..

Fact is this kit was designed totally the fact that the Japaneses economy was and is screwed and the average punter in Japan couldnt afford Step 2's , Tomei's, Jun, Trust.

Companies businesses were sliding and so HKS came up with an affordable power upgrade.

The Step 0 runs a light weight crank and the metallurgy is very different from the Step 2 and old Step 3 crank. Its designed to give a more free reving engine and good response.

It does has its limits which have been

Fact HKS recommend 8000rpm limit and will build and tune and set rpm limit to between 7500-7800rpm.

Yep there are tuning shops here in Japan running the Step 0 on the track and getting good results but they have the means and funds to rebuild if and when things go bad.

You build these to run consistently in the 600-650 ps zone and your pushing its upper tolerances..

As already proven the Step 2 , Step 3 and other brands alike make the 600-650 HP piece of piss with big torque and bucket loads of room for more power and solid reliability.

Is the ATTKD time attack 34 really running a Step 0 ?? Doesnt it run HKS GT2835's??

I'm not knocking the Step 0 it is what it is..plain and simple an affordable entry to responsive power and decent power at that.

And before anyone goes blah blah blah..I'm getting my info directly from the bloke sitting next me ..one of the top race designers and engine builders for HKS Japan.

Tell him he doesnt know shit about their products!

[nitestage32]

Are you talking about this one ? http://www.turbomaga..._r34/index.html

Such a nice car inside and out <3

Running a stock exhaust manifold,im leaving mine stock

Edited July 29, 2011 by nitestage32

[Beer Baron]

blitz did you change the compression ratio with your build?

bb i thought you were bsing us with ( rods, say $1000 (can get tomei's for that price these days which is dirt cheap for them) but i went on ebay and but i'm not convinced though because there description say that they are vq35 rod's and thay are the are the same price as vq35 conrods.

the cheapest i could find elsewhere were $1400 so i don't no what's going on, bad listing?

the reason they can be had for around $1000 is tomei deal in america. and with the current strength of the AUD vs USD it's acutally cheaper at the moment to buy tomei products out of the US than it is to buy them out of japan. It's a bargain. not long ago they were near enough to $2,000 for a set of tomei rods. for $1,000 I'd jump on them if building an engine. They are a cleverly designed rod and nicely made.

I think that was just a typo in the listing you looked at but this one is pretty specific.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Tomei-Forged-H-Beam-Conrod-Kit-Nissan-RB26-RB25-121-5mm-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf84a8487QQitemZ330583147655QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[Blitz]

Been watching this thread with interest..

Fact is this kit was designed totally the fact that the Japaneses economy was and is screwed and the average punter in Japan couldnt afford Step 2's , Tomei's, Jun, Trust.

Companies businesses were sliding and so HKS came up with an affordable power upgrade.

The Step 0 runs a light weight crank and the metallurgy is very different from the Step 2 and old Step 3 crank. Its designed to give a more free reving engine and good response.

It does has its limits which have been

Fact HKS recommend 8000rpm limit and will build and tune and set rpm limit to between 7500-7800rpm.

Yep there are tuning shops here in Japan running the Step 0 on the track and getting good results but they have the means and funds to rebuild if and when things go bad.

You build these to run consistently in the 600-650 ps zone and your pushing its upper tolerances..

As already proven the Step 2 , Step 3 and other brands alike make the 600-650 HP piece of piss with big torque and bucket loads of room for more power and solid reliability.

Is the ATTKD time attack 34 really running a Step 0 ?? Doesnt it run HKS GT2835's??

I'm not knocking the Step 0 it is what it is..plain and simple an affordable entry to responsive power and decent power at that.

And before anyone goes blah blah blah..I'm getting my info directly from the bloke sitting next me ..one of the top race designers and engine builders for HKS Japan.

Tell him he doesnt know shit about their products!

Hey Marcus, you are one of the few in this thread that can add some quality input after your dealings with HKS Japan

It will certainly be interesting to see how the kit goes, I can't see the Step Zero crank being weaker than a stock RB26 crank but time will tell.

For interests sake I will try and get some more info for you on the ATTKD cars running the kit which should shed some more light on their longevity at the power levels we are discussing.

At the end of the day the kit was recommended to me by my engine builder in Sydney, and my order was a bulletproof and responsive all rounder, and without taking this thread further off tangent, i trust the information I have received.

For what its worth, I had plenty of my own doubts about this kit being 'cheaper' etc, but have been assured the setup I am getting will be up to the task, and I was lucky enough to get a fantastic price on my Step Zero which is one of the reasons I decided to try it out and take a gamble all while pocketing the rest of the money I was intending to spend on the Tomei 2.8 or HKS Step 2

[elrodeo666]

Hey Marcus, you are one of the few in this thread that can add some quality input after your dealings with HKS Japan

It will certainly be interesting to see how the kit goes, I can't see the Step Zero crank being weaker than a stock RB26 crank but time will tell.

For interests sake I will try and get some more info for you on the ATTKD cars running the kit which should shed some more light on their longevity at the power levels we are discussing.

At the end of the day the kit was recommended to me by my engine builder in Sydney, and my order was a bulletproof and responsive all rounder, and without taking this thread further off tangent, i trust the information I have received.

For what its worth, I had plenty of my own doubts about this kit being 'cheaper' etc, but have been assured the setup I am getting will be up to the task, and I was lucky enough to get a fantastic price on my Step Zero which is one of the reasons I decided to try it out and take a gamble all while pocketing the rest of the money I was intending to spend on the Tomei 2.8 or HKS Step 2

No probs on the ATTKD as I'll be out their way next week and will be popping in as picking up some suspension parts.

[tweety bird]

the reason they can be had for around $1000 is tomei deal in america. and with the current strength of the AUD vs USD it's acutally cheaper at the moment to buy tomei products out of the US than it is to buy them out of japan. It's a bargain. not long ago they were near enough to $2,000 for a set of tomei rods. for $1,000 I'd jump on them if building an engine. They are a cleverly designed rod and nicely made.

I think that was just a typo in the listing you looked at but this one is pretty specific.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...sQ5fAccessories

thanks for posting the link i'll have a set of those, i wonder if thay would do me a deal with a oil pump?

[tk80]

On the topic of costs, what's wrong with this combo?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JE-Pistons-Manley-Rods-Skyline-RB26DETT-R32R33R34-86-5-/270774783008?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0b6f4c20#ht_4875wt_786

And what is the target compression of an e85 tuned rb26 with 400kw at the wheels?

Edited July 30, 2011 by tk80