Which One To Choose From? Is It Worth Just Keeping The Rb20?

[Freddie]

Hey all

I recently swapped my vn ss for a r32 nissan skyline. It has a rb20det in it, a front mount that has seen better days and a clutch that I wouldn't trust with my mother.

So im in the process of buying coilovers and with that sorted I have started to think along the lines of power.

I have three real options here. Re-build my rb20, which im not really keen on and the only reason I would see myself doing this is if I can not aquire a newer better motor and gearbox.

One of the other options is buying a written off R32 GTR and use the rb26dett, convert it to RWD, build it up slighty eg New turbos, fuel, cams, afm, alloy radiator.

Or I can buy a written off r33 with a rb25det in it. I am very keen to go the rb25det as Its not as rare as a gtr and Its newer.

My aim is to produce a tough street/track car to drift and hill runs. Im looking at between 250 - 300 RWKWS. I have been looking through the power figures in the Turbo upgrade section and have a fair Idea as to what I want.

I am thinking RB25DET

computer: Power FC with HC

Head: cams, cam gears

Head gasket: thinner maybe 1.9mm or something

block: standard? Is this possible with the power figures im after or will I need to maybe go forged?

Intake Manifold: Forward facing intake plenium

Turbo: Bigger turbo? Unsure as to what type, don't want anything to rediculious as this will still be a street car.

Exhaust: Top mount exhaust manifold, 3Inch Turbo back Exhaust

Radiator: Alloy radiator

Intercooler: FMIC

AFM: Z32 AFM

Fuel: Walbro fuel pump, fuel regulator, bigger injectors 700 cc, fuel rail

Ignition: Coilpacks? Maybe if I can afford it. Are they worth it?

Oil: Oil catch can? What does it do? is there some modification needed to run this?

Clutch: HD clutch

Gearbox: RB25 Gearbox

As you can see Im leaning towards the RB25det, is it a good idea power and financual wise as apposed to a RB26dett? Also is a single turbo better then a twin turbo for drifting?

Does anyone have a rough Idea what kind of power I could get depending on the turbo? Any Turbo suggestions would be appricated.

Cheers Tyrone

[JonnoHR31]

for that sort of power you cant go past a 25.

ecu: power fc, vipec etc, take your pick.

head: stock

head gasket and internals: stock, yes standard internals are fine for that power level. 280-300rwkw seams to be the safe limit.

manifolds: standard intake mani is fine. standard exhaust manifold will flow that much power but starts to become a restriction.

turbo: depends entirely on power, for ~250rwkw something like a gtrs or highflow stocker would be the go, for 280-300 a gt30 would be your best bet.

exhaust: keep it low mount, top mount is entirely pointless for this level, just adds cost and raises your chances of a defect.

radiator: nfi, have a search on here for 32s

interwarmer: definately need a decent size fmic

afm: z32 if your going power fc, dont need one at all if you choose a map based ecu. get your ecu before you buy a z32 afm

fuel: stay away from walbro, spend the tiny bit extra on a bosch 044, use the standard reg. 555s are more than enough for that power level but headroom is always nice, aslong as they're good quality injectors that can be tuned properly at idle. if you get sidefeed injectors the standard rail is fine

ignition: standard coilpacks are fine if they're in good condition, but most are rooted by this age. splitfires do the job nicely. china ones wont be as good quality but plenty of people using them with no issues.

oil: oil catch can simply catches blown by oil before it goes through the intake system, a healthy motor will have minimal blow by so a catch can isnt really needed.

clutch: personally, i'd remove your stocker and find a clutch specialist than can make it heavier for you. i'm running an organic clutch plate and 2500lb pressure plate and loving it, drives like a stocker and handles any abuse you throw at it.

box: standard 25 box is fine.

if you end up looking at the higher end of your power goal (300rwkw) but still want good response then look into a twin scroll setup with a gt3076. costly but would work very nicely on a 25.

[bubba]

3L.

That is all.

[Freddie]

yeah im deffiantly heading towards rb25. I was thinking rb25 head on a rb30 bottem end but I have heard that there is some very expensive modification that is needed to be done to the head in order for it to fit onto the block?

What kind of power would the set up that I have mentioned above give if running a garret t3 or t4? on a safe everyday tune?

thanks for your help guys and gals

[ti2l]

hey mate

have owned 2 r32s both drift cars... started with a stock 20 like your just with a nisstune ecu, fuel pump and suspension work..

car was great to learn in and couldnt have asked for anything better. great platform to begin with.

I honestly have no idea of your driving experience but as far as learning to skid i would honestly say you are far from needing 250-300kw.

learn on the 20, thrash the guts outta it until it blows then drop in a 25

my second 32 which i still have came with the 20 in it again but with HKS turbo etc and around 220kw... short story was the head warped...

went down the same road of questioning as you and am currently building the 25 which i dropped in. Have had it tuned and stock with a fuel pump is running around the 200kw mark which is great. good responsive motor and plenty of torque. spent way too much on suspension but best money i have ever spent oh and running an exedy clutch.. unsure of part number though, Saber front mount and 52mm radiator with thermo fan replacing A/C fan and stock clutch fan for safety as long as a 25? row oil cooler (overkill but necessary)

I have decided to go with either the HKS2835 or GT-RS (or garrett equivelant), 256 cams,splitfire coilpacks, S15 injectors, bosch fuel pumps and surge tank, stock manifold, contemplating a plazmaman intake manifold (forward facing), power FC, nismo fuel reg and am running the stock airbox coz i dont want to be defected .... my power goal is around the 250kw mark, would be unhappy with a lil more but really not needed.

hope what i have offered gives you some insight or help.... feel free to shoot me a pm and i can let you know how i am going with stuff as i go. have almost got all my goodies so should be putting it all together shortly once i get hold of a turbo.... and fix the damage the old man caused by backing the trailer into my car

Edited January 30, 2010 by ti2l

[bubba]

Expensive? lol

Have a troll through the RB30 subsection, you will find everything you need to know in there. The only really expensive bit of building a 30 is the sump adapter if you're putting it in a 4wd, otherwise there's not a whole lot of difference cost wise, some extra drilling/tapping and welding of a water gallery if using a 25t head.

You will make the same power with a given turbo at a given pressure, regardless of what engine it is on. More capacity will just alter when it makes that power and how it makes it.

My setup is an RB25DE head (out of an R32, the easiest of conversions into a 32gtst) on a forged 30 bottom end, hoping to make as close to 500rwhp as I can with the GT35R turbo I've got.

Safe tune.. make sure your fuel pump is a new shiny new Bosch (forget the Walbro stuff. An 044 mounted intank is plenty) unit and you have big enough injectors to handle the power you want to make then it should be fine if your tuner knows what he's doing

[ti2l]

lil bit more than 250kw right there lol 30 conversion can be awesome though.. ryan easton has this set up in his 31 and i think running a slightly smaller turbo... but great responsive motor when matched with the right turbo

[R31Nismoid]

What's the budget?

I agreed with ti2l - sounds like you are just starting out so there is no way you need 250-300rwkw.

You are far better off learning, getting the car setup, running right etc etc.

Once you've given it a crack for a year or two, THEN go looking for bigger motor's etc.

[l_uk3y]

Go a Gallo 24. You wont regret it

Otherwise i'd say go with an RB25 unless budget isn't an issue.

[Freddie]

great info guys..

Yeah this plan is ATLEAST a year or even two years down the road. I am planning to build motor while still driving stock rb20 around. Budget isnt an issue as The build can take as long as it needs. My rb20det seems really powerless to drift and hence why I started looking into a better motor.

I have BASIC drifting skills. I emphasis basic but still I am planning to learn on this stock motor then spend the money on a 25 as I really dont want to spend money on a 21 year old motor.

Of course suspension is the first thing I am doing with a full set of cusco zero 1 coilovers going in in about a month or so. Also could I get a power FC with HC for my RB20 and still use it in a RB25 when I do the conversion?

cheers for the help guys

[Lady G]

Go the RB25! I recently did the conversion with my bf. It's great and I wish I had done it sooner! :-)

[ti2l]

my set up in teh 20 was:

nisstune ECU

walbro pump

sard ful reg

HSD HR coilovers- best bang for your buck and wouldnt get anything else

R33 lower control arms

Tien super lock tie rods & rack spacers

adjustable camber arms

tein castor arms

shimmed diff

whiteline sway bars

and strut braces..

thats all i can remember but was a great set up and even with the 20 was more than ok doing OP South circuit.. ran outta steam a lil bit but was prefect to learn on.

RB20s are a good motor. just lack a lil bit of torque which helps but are far far from undriftable.

the rb20 power FC can't be used on a 25... personally the only reson i went for the power FC in the 25 is becase i couldnt be stuffed finding a z32 cmputer to do the nisstune. seemed like a lot of stufing around at the time.

again bang for your buck i would spend the money on the Cuscos... have used HSDs for years and bounced them off countless ripple strps and they have taken it with a smile.

[R31Nismoid]

great info guys..

Yeah this plan is ATLEAST a year or even two years down the road. I am planning to build motor while still driving stock rb20 around. Budget isnt an issue as The build can take as long as it needs. My rb20det seems really powerless to drift and hence why I started looking into a better motor.

I have BASIC drifting skills. I emphasis basic but still I am planning to learn on this stock motor then spend the money on a 25 as I really dont want to spend money on a 21 year old motor.

Of course suspension is the first thing I am doing with a full set of cusco zero 1 coilovers going in in about a month or so. Also could I get a power FC with HC for my RB20 and still use it in a RB25 when I do the conversion?

cheers for the help guys

It's certainly not powerless, you just need to hone the skills a bit more and setup the car a bit better and you should be ok to learn with a stocker with just some boost and a tune.

A few people from long ago used to do quite well with stocker turbo'd RB20s. Ye they didnt have ooodles of smoke coming off the tyres, but they were most certainly drifting well.

I would get Nistune to be honest, nice cheap and easy for the time being to get you by.

RB20 PFC won't gell with a RB25.

You'll make around 160rwkw and that will get you going quite well once your setup is done.

[ti2l]

managed to get 180 out of my stock 20 gotta love a healthy motor

Got my Nisstune from UNIgroup engineering if yor in their area... Yavuz is a fantastic tuner and great to deal with