Why Is It That Mechanics Always Screw You Over

[sturb25]

Im not going to name any names as yet cause im trying to get it all sorted

I had a few issues with my car that i needed to get sorted asap so i got refered to a dyno mechanic shop by a couple of people on hear and im not realy happy with what they have done and havent done to my car

anyway ill get straight to the point

1st issue: Cars getting a little warm under load windy hill climbing, bit worried as ive had the car for 3 years and the temp gauge has moved at all

2nd issue: Car having trouble starting, think it may be starter motor solinoid or voltage regulator

I took my car in to have these problems looked at and fixed as i need my car for work i also got it serviced and a power run on the dyno just to see what it was making, kw wise and that led me to yet another problem

Anyway ill start with the cooling issue, when i took it in i asked them to flush radiator, instal new thermostat and new coolant and check water pump cause if it is the pump its covered under my warranty. They put a new water pump in even after i specificly told them not to and then they tried to charge my for it . I said i wasnt paying for it but i think they added it onto the bill. Dickheads. And its still getting warm so they didnt fix that problem.

Starting problem, its as though my car has a flat battery but as you turn the key for longer it picks up in revs and eventually starts but sometimes it turns over fine but it wont start straight away and when it does go to start uve got to have your foot ready to help it. Its got progressively worse over the past 3 months. battery is only new and checks out fine.

Third problem that arose when they serviced and dynoed it. They put in new plugs, new oil, checked all fluid levels and did a safety check. When i went to pick it up they said that i produced 122kw which was a 14 kw gain from last time i got it dynoed. I was excited but they told me that i only had 5 psi boost which i thought was really strange cause before i took it in there it was reading 7-8 psi. I thought it may of been my gauge reading wrong so i took it for a drive.

It wasnt the gauge as it now reads 5 psi and its going worse than when i took it in there but the power reading is higher. How do u work that out. I dont know what they have done but its going shit, its still overheating and its still having starting issues and they stung my 900 bucks.

Im realy pissed of and i dont know what to do. i dont want to take it back there as i cant get any time off work to do so for the next couple of months.

[beaugus]

Sorry to hear about the bad experience, certainly doesn't help the place you entrusted your car with gain praise but at any rate its a lesson well learnt I suppose.

My two cents worth with your cooling issue, theres a decent product by redline called "water wetter" its an inhibitor for your radiator but it's done wonders for our Stagea with the hot day's were getting locally here (40+ degree days and around town stop start) We added it to fresh coolant and we've noticed an immediate difference with how stable the temps are now especially as we've had our stagea loaded up moving house and still enjoying a bit of boost and all.

It may or may not be a wonder cure for long term problems but where as we had the engine get past half way in the past it now never hits half way even if we give it the beans.

About your boost, I've been stuffing around with a boost controller lately and been doing all sorts of trials and tests etc, if your stagea is making 5PSI or around that I can say the wastegate spring pressure is defiantly around the 5-5.5PSI mark because when I had the new boost solenoid wired up but turned off it ran around at this tension.

After pulling my hair out with the boost unit I did a bit more investigation on the factory two-stage unit on the car, pretty smart but simple little thing. The bottom line is, as per factory conditions any load under 4500rpm its normal to see 5-5.5PSI then the ECU creates an open circut after this RPM to achieve the dual stage 7PSI throughout the remaining rev range.

It might be worth checking the vacume lines coming from your solenoid (particularly the top line that "T's" into the wastegate line) there may be a split or crack in this line that isn't enabling the boost to rise that OR check the electrics going to the solenoid if the harness isn't in or even if theres bad contact on the pins it can easily cause the unit not to function correctly.

The hard to start issue, that one I can't help with but might be worth having the battery checked out perhaps? I had an old merc benz that was 3 years old and had a similar sounding issue as your starting issue, turned out the plates in the battery gave up pretty much, no amount of charging helped either and I invested in a c-tec charger to recondition the thing at first to no avail it simply gave out.

Hope you get the right thing done by your chosen maintenance joint because I personally hate being taken for a ride myself ..... which is why I finally invested in kitting out my shed like a workshop, hoist, tools and all now I've only got myself to haggle with.

[_Ryan_]

Is your standard 5-7psi solenoid connected? Tested? Tried bypassing it? should get you 7psi.

Starting? Cold, Warm, both?

Radiator? Had it flushed?(Pulled it out and had it opened up and properly cleaned out)

[sturb25]

Is your standard 5-7psi solenoid connected? Tested? Tried bypassing it? should get you 7psi.

Starting? Cold, Warm, both?

Radiator? Had it flushed?(Pulled it out and had it opened up and properly cleaned out)

Yes it is connected and no i havent tested it. Im think ill try and replace all hoses first casue it was producing boost to 7psi fine before i took it in so im thinking that there might be a crack in the boost solinoid line that passes directly over the coil pack cover

Starting issue happens all the time.

Im going to take it to a radiator place and have them take the tanks off and have it cleaned properly and maybe do a pressure test and leek down test to rule out blown head gasket, i very much doubt it will have a blown head gasket but theres no harm in testing. And ill also put a new radiator cap on to.

It could also be to do with the 2 bleed valves not being bleed properly. Who knows, ill sort it out. Ive got to

[sturb25]

Sorry to hear about the bad experience, certainly doesn't help the place you entrusted your car with gain praise but at any rate its a lesson well learnt I suppose.

My two cents worth with your cooling issue, theres a decent product by redline called "water wetter" its an inhibitor for your radiator but it's done wonders for our Stagea with the hot day's were getting locally here (40+ degree days and around town stop start) We added it to fresh coolant and we've noticed an immediate difference with how stable the temps are now especially as we've had our stagea loaded up moving house and still enjoying a bit of boost and all.

It may or may not be a wonder cure for long term problems but where as we had the engine get past half way in the past it now never hits half way even if we give it the beans.

About your boost, I've been stuffing around with a boost controller lately and been doing all sorts of trials and tests etc, if your stagea is making 5PSI or around that I can say the wastegate spring pressure is defiantly around the 5-5.5PSI mark because when I had the new boost solenoid wired up but turned off it ran around at this tension.

After pulling my hair out with the boost unit I did a bit more investigation on the factory two-stage unit on the car, pretty smart but simple little thing. The bottom line is, as per factory conditions any load under 4500rpm its normal to see 5-5.5PSI then the ECU creates an open circut after this RPM to achieve the dual stage 7PSI throughout the remaining rev range.

It might be worth checking the vacume lines coming from your solenoid (particularly the top line that "T's" into the wastegate line) there may be a split or crack in this line that isn't enabling the boost to rise that OR check the electrics going to the solenoid if the harness isn't in or even if theres bad contact on the pins it can easily cause the unit not to function correctly.

The hard to start issue, that one I can't help with but might be worth having the battery checked out perhaps? I had an old merc benz that was 3 years old and had a similar sounding issue as your starting issue, turned out the plates in the battery gave up pretty much, no amount of charging helped either and I invested in a c-tec charger to recondition the thing at first to no avail it simply gave out.

Hope you get the right thing done by your chosen maintenance joint because I personally hate being taken for a ride myself ..... which is why I finally invested in kitting out my shed like a workshop, hoist, tools and all now I've only got myself to haggle with

Thanks i will look into it further and do a few tests and replace a few hoses

Ive got to get it sorted as i cant be without a car

Had battery tested and it tests all good, its only new

[KiwiRS4T]

Even the best workshops can do dud work sometimes (that's why i did a mechanics apprenticeship in my youth but obviously that's not for everyone) but here are two (after the fact) tips:

1. Don't self diagnose. If its overheating just tell them when and how it overheats and let them work out why. Ask them to give you a ring when they have a diagnosis and tell you what they propose to do and why and how much it is going to cost.

2. Go to the experts.

Radiator shop for overheating. With a car of your age the radiator will need cleaning out or re-coring and the plastic header tank is likely to develop splits. If there is another fault this won't be wasted money as it is the most likely cause and needed doing anyway. [btw the fact that the temp guage has not indicated overheating in the past means little because it is designed to sit in the normal setting until things get really hot]

Auto electrician for starter. Most mechanics have only a rudimentary knowledge of electrics and will fit new or recond exchange starters and alternators. Auto electrician will repair as necessary - poss bearings, bushes, clean up commutator etc - again a ten or more year old car will need this anyway. He can test your battery, alternator output and starter draw in 2 minutes.

If you can find evidence of poor or unnecessary work by the workshop take the bill to the boss and have a chat and ask for some money back.

Good luck

[fat-lad]

im with kiwirs4t on this one,

for the getting hot thing take it to a radiator specialist, my s1 never got hot but i took my radiator out and got it rodded and they rekon it was 48%blocked, and put a new top tank on too, runs even cooler now,

and take it too a good auto elec too, so many of them are dodgy, look for ones that have been around for years, its a shame your not in my area as i could get it looked at by people you could trust!!

hope you get it sorted man, being a mechanic myself i hate seeing people getting ripped off by others!!!

[QWK32]

just a quick note in regards to the boost issue. if your keen to start replacing the vacuum lines for new ones, keep in mind that there are a couple of little brass restrictors in some of the lines. i don't know how crucial it is if they are in there or not, but if you feel/squeeze the line when you pull them off you'll be able to find them.

[32TAXI]

Radiator shop first and get them to check headgasket whilst there, hydro lock will do that on start up.

My stagea never went past half on guage but was running at 99'c on pfc controller!

Sorry to hear but we are all underpaid low-life scum!

[Mr_RS4]

My starter has gone twice on my S1. Sounds just like your issues when starting. The first one took about 4 weeks before it finally gove up (tap with an extension bar didn't do the trick anymore) second one went in one night.

I know you said you've never had over heating issues before now but you also said it was on hot days going up hills. I have exactly the same issue with mine, it never over heats but if its a hot and humid enough day and I'm going up a steep range (espically if I'm stuck behind someone, so I'm going fairly slow) it overheats badly. Mind you I have a nismo front bar which gives great airflow to the intercooler but nothing else, then behind the front mount I've got the tranny cooler, thermo fan for a/c, aircon condenser then finally the radiator. So its no surprise to me it overheats. I will address the issue one day. So if you've got a front mount and its only while going up ranges etc. then it may be a lack of airflow issue. But might not be either.....

Have you considered just getting a basic t-piece bleed valve for boost control, making sure its hooked up right with new hoses and going from there.

But in saying all this if your boost was fine before taking your car in then something was obviously done while it was in there. I don't know what your mods are (if any) but 122kw seems a little on the low side for a S2, not to mention the 108kw you were getting before? I got 159kw on a S1 with just exhast, fmic, safc and 11psi and my coils wern't in the best shape either.

But yeah like others have said its a bit more running around but best to stick to the shops that specialise in a particular thing (don't worry I have found out the hard way as you have with a particular workshop here thats fairly well known). A radiator shop will be able to do a pressure check and leak down test and rule out anything really bad (like blown head gasket) and should be able to sort out your over heating issues, then try and find a good auto electrician but my money would be on the starter on its way out but once again they should be able to find the problem and as for the boost I'd just try a simple bleed valve and by pass everything else and see how that goes.

Good Luck!

[NZM.031]

dont be too quick to jump on mechanics man... im one, and i for one try to do the best quality work.. in your instance, it sounds you got screwed a little... but thats only one side of the story.. the workshop may tell another side of it... we'll never know.

sometimes car troubles arent straight forward... sometimes they are difficult to suss out and sometimes it comes down to a matter of trial and error and eliminating problems one by one.. one way to look at it is, that for the next 10 years you wont have to worry about your water pump..

another thing is we mechanics are a judgemental lot... when it comes to nasty customers, we be nice to them.... iiiiifffff they be nice to us... we are providing a service because you dont want to do it, or cant do it... if you come off being all "do this, do that, and do it by this time" then you wont come off well.. and generally you'll get a below average job.

im not having go at you as i dont know you, and ive seen workshops do it before.. its a shame.. but it happens..

now from what youve said... it sounds to me almost like your headgasket is on its way out.. hard starting, over heating under load, and low boost are all signs of a crack or pinhole in the headgasket. it may also be running leaner, your fuel pump could be on the way out aswell.. the ideal tune is as lean as possible and safe.. it may not be flowing as much as it did when new and the engine is restricting the boost as a fail safe.... i dont know i havent seen the car..

the power reading you got could be because everything goes better when its about to die.. it may actually be going better, or the dyno may be out of calibration,your tyres may not be as grippy on the rollers, or grippier, the air filter may be cleaner, etc, etc.. there are many reasons for a power increase of only 9kw.. dynos are never ever accurate.. they are meant to be a diagnostic tool... ideally used to replicate your car going up a hill under load and see whats happening, without leaving the workshop...

cheers

Linton

[pixel8r]

5psi is indeed the standard wastegate limit, at which point the wastegate opens - thereby limiting boost to a maximum of 5psi. The solenoid mentioned above is used to bleed off a further ~2psi above 4500rpm - thus achieving the factory 7-8psi.

If its stuck at 5psi that basically would indicate that the solenoid is either not connected correctly (maybe they've bypassed the solenoid altogether when connecting everything back up), or its blocked (or one of the lines going to/from it). if these lines were split then boost would be higher than normal, not lower.

[Appealing]

This may seem too simple, but have you checked you earth straps. Bad earthing is the cause of more starting problems than you could realise.

Try connecting a supplementary strap (Jump-starter cable from Neg terminal to engine), and see if that makes any difference.

Check your fluids to see if any discolouration. Have a look inside the radiator cap, any sign of grey deposit (especially with a greasy feel) may mean a head gasket or worse still a cracked head. I concur with the theory that there could be some head gasket prob. Are you losing fluids? This is always a sign too.

With regards to the mechs, If you really feel that you have a case, (I think that you do, with the water pump) then talk to them first. If no joy you always have consumer affairs to go to.

[dirtyRS4]

DIY + slab of coldies. Two mates, one with tools and a hoist and one that has a laptop and sorta knows his shit ha,ha.

Also one daily bunky available. What worse could you really do? After that im with kiwi take it to the right place, experts in the right given areas. Dont give you r money away uless u have to open her up, specialist shit or dyno time.

Believe me I learnt the hard way with $$ on my gtir.

Edited February 1, 2010 by dirtyRS4

[sturb25]

dont be too quick to jump on mechanics man... im one, and i for one try to do the best quality work.. in your instance, it sounds you got screwed a little... but thats only one side of the story.. the workshop may tell another side of it... we'll never know.

sometimes car troubles arent straight forward... sometimes they are difficult to suss out and sometimes it comes down to a matter of trial and error and eliminating problems one by one.. one way to look at it is, that for the next 10 years you wont have to worry about your water pump..

another thing is we mechanics are a judgemental lot... when it comes to nasty customers, we be nice to them.... iiiiifffff they be nice to us... we are providing a service because you dont want to do it, or cant do it... if you come off being all "do this, do that, and do it by this time" then you wont come off well.. and generally you'll get a below average job.

im not having go at you as i dont know you, and ive seen workshops do it before.. its a shame.. but it happens..

now from what youve said... it sounds to me almost like your headgasket is on its way out.. hard starting, over heating under load, and low boost are all signs of a crack or pinhole in the headgasket. it may also be running leaner, your fuel pump could be on the way out aswell.. the ideal tune is as lean as possible and safe.. it may not be flowing as much as it did when new and the engine is restricting the boost as a fail safe.... i dont know i havent seen the car..

the power reading you got could be because everything goes better when its about to die.. it may actually be going better, or the dyno may be out of calibration,your tyres may not be as grippy on the rollers, or grippier, the air filter may be cleaner, etc, etc.. there are many reasons for a power increase of only 9kw.. dynos are never ever accurate.. they are meant to be a diagnostic tool... ideally used to replicate your car going up a hill under load and see whats happening, without leaving the workshop...

cheers

Linton

As far as im concerned if i go to a mechanic and my car is going worse than when i took it in and none of the problems are sorted out and i get charged 900 bucks, i got ripped off. They said they would look at all the problems and fix them. If they arent capable of doing so they should of let me know before i took it in and not charged me 900.

I couldnt be a nicer person, polite and didnt argue when they gave me the bill. Its bullshit.

[sturb25]

Thanks for your help everyone

Im sorting out the problems one thing at a time starting with the main one, temperature. Ive booked it in to nadrad to get the radiator pulled apart, tanks cleaned, engine flushed, pressure tested and new radiator cap.

As for the boost issue. Ive made a little discovery. When the car is first started and warmed up it reaches 7psi for say 4 or 5 times i give it a squirt then drops down to 4-5 psi if that helps

Starting problem. I think its more than starter motor cause today it turned over fine but it wouldnt start for around 30 secs. But when it feels as though something is draining the power from the battery u can also tell by the rear boot electronic latch cause it is really slow. Its realy strange. Should i book it in to a auto elect or a mechanic?

Thanks

[Stagea_Neo]

maybe not the starter motor but the alternator/regulator is on the way out?

hard starts, battery not charged much.

(don't wish to jinx ya, possibly both on the way out)

Edited February 2, 2010 by Stagea_Neo

[Daleo]

dont be too quick to jump on mechanics man... im one, and i for one try to do the best quality work.. in your instance, it sounds you got screwed a little... but thats only one side of the story.. the workshop may tell another side of it... we'll never know.

sometimes car troubles arent straight forward... sometimes they are difficult to suss out and sometimes it comes down to a matter of trial and error and eliminating problems one by one.. one way to look at it is, that for the next 10 years you wont have to worry about your water pump..

another thing is we mechanics are a judgemental lot... when it comes to nasty customers, we be nice to them.... iiiiifffff they be nice to us... we are providing a service because you dont want to do it, or cant do it... if you come off being all "do this, do that, and do it by this time" then you wont come off well.. and generally you'll get a below average job.

im not having go at you as i dont know you, and ive seen workshops do it before.. its a shame.. but it happens..

NZM.031, I agree with most of what you're saying, cars are indeed fickle beasts, but this whole "treat us reeeally nice or we'll do a shit job" bs... That can't ever be an excuse, no matter what. I'm paying for a service when I take my car to a mechanic, I'm not paying for a new best buddy. You can't possibly know peoples motivation for taking their car to a mechanic. Whether or not they can or can't do it themselves is irrelevant.

Do you think prestige vehicle mechanics do a shit job because they think the owner of a Porsche is a smug, rich bastard? I doubt it, I would imagine it's because that smug, rich, bastard could go anywhere, but he CHOOSES to come here. If you don't want the work, don't accept the job. If you can't guarantee your work, don't accept payment until you can. I work in a trade and i would never leave myself open to criticism that my work is anything less than 100% and I would never accept payment until I was 100% satisfied. My reputation is at stake. Sturb obviously chose these guys on the strength of their reputation, and thus far, it seems like they might have let him down. If it seems like I'm having a go at you , not my intention, I just hate it when professionals feel like they can blow customers off for trivial things.

Sturb, checking you alternator and voltage reg is fairly straightforward if you have a multimeter. Start you car, put a meter on the battery, and check whether battery volts are rising or falling. Due to the power consumption of the fuel pump,etc, if your alternator is failing you will progressively lose charge, as the car runs, to the point when it stops completely. Testing a voltage reg, you can do with the meter still on the battery. The reg's job is to stop the alternator overcharging the battery. Generally you can check this by revving the engine (around 2500rpm is fine) and holding whilst you have your meter on the battery, if you are seeing more than about 13.8 -14.4 volts for an extended period, reg could be suspect.

Good luck with everything, hope you get it all sorted.

[sturb25]

NZM.031, I agree with most of what you're saying, cars are indeed fickle beasts, but this whole "treat us reeeally nice or we'll do a shit job" bs... That can't ever be an excuse, no matter what. I'm paying for a service when I take my car to a mechanic, I'm not paying for a new best buddy. You can't possibly know peoples motivation for taking their car to a mechanic. Whether or not they can or can't do it themselves is irrelevant.

Do you think prestige vehicle mechanics do a shit job because they think the owner of a Porsche is a smug, rich bastard? I doubt it, I would imagine it's because that smug, rich, bastard could go anywhere, but he CHOOSES to come here. If you don't want the work, don't accept the job. If you can't guarantee your work, don't accept payment until you can. I work in a trade and i would never leave myself open to criticism that my work is anything less than 100% and I would never accept payment until I was 100% satisfied. My reputation is at stake. Sturb obviously chose these guys on the strength of their reputation, and thus far, it seems like they might have let him down. If it seems like I'm having a go at you , not my intention, I just hate it when professionals feel like they can blow customers off for trivial things.

Sturb, checking you alternator and voltage reg is fairly straightforward if you have a multimeter. Start you car, put a meter on the battery, and check whether battery volts are rising or falling. Due to the power consumption of the fuel pump,etc, if your alternator is failing you will progressively lose charge, as the car runs, to the point when it stops completely. Testing a voltage reg, you can do with the meter still on the battery. The reg's job is to stop the alternator overcharging the battery. Generally you can check this by revving the engine (around 2500rpm is fine) and holding whilst you have your meter on the battery, if you are seeing more than about 13.8 -14.4 volts for an extended period, reg could be suspect.

Good luck with everything, hope you get it all sorted

Thanks

I dont have a multimeter on hand at the moment im in the process of moving house and im not sure where it is. my turbo timer is a blitz and it has an accurate voltage meter that gives you a reading when the car starts and when its going. Is reading 14.3- 14.4. if that help

Thanks

Stu

[Appealing]

Thanks for your help everyone

Im sorting out the problems one thing at a time starting with the main one, temperature. Ive booked it in to nadrad to get the radiator pulled apart, tanks cleaned, engine flushed, pressure tested and new radiator cap.

As for the boost issue. Ive made a little discovery. When the car is first started and warmed up it reaches 7psi for say 4 or 5 times i give it a squirt then drops down to 4-5 psi if that helps

Starting problem. I think its more than starter motor cause today it turned over fine but it wouldnt start for around 30 secs. But when it feels as though something is draining the power from the battery u can also tell by the rear boot electronic latch cause it is really slow. Its realy strange. Should i book it in to a auto elect or a mechanic?

Thanks

Hi Again Stu

One thing I can tell you from experience is that the computer is far more "intelligent" than we give it credit for.

If I take mine out and hold it on the brakes, I can hit full boost. If I do it more than once or twice then it won't do it again, at least not until the ignition is turned off and on.... this might be what you are experiencing too. Also when until it is properly warm it wont select the overdrive (lock up auto) in 4th. The computer talks to the Auto box all the time, I can see in your details that yours is a manual and so may behave quite differently. Anyway, just a bit more info for you.