adjustable sway bars: tuning!

[Craved]

Hey guys,

im just havong a play around with the setup of the sway bars on my S1 R33 which i have put whiteline adj sway bars on. now since i installed them i have a noticeable increase in rear sliding/loss of traction, which is normal for stiffer rear sway bar. The thing is i was wondering if anyone can clarify the the settings on those sway bars.

so my thoughts are the inside hole (furthest from the ends) is harder then the end holes. is this correct! basically if anyone could tell me for certain say outside to inside is softer to harder, i wouold really appreciate it!

Cheers in advance

[Sydneykid]

Hi Craved, the holes that make the arms shorter (less leverage) are the firmer settings. To decrease oversteer you should, soften the rear bar (move to the further out holes) and/or firm up the front bar (move to the further in holes).

You may also find the rear geometry needs attention, you may find that due to the decrease in roll (from fitting the stronger anti roll bars) has reduced the need for excessive rear camber. Or the previously required toe out on the rear can be reset to zero or maybe even a little toe in.

Lastly, the rear spring and/or damper bump (not rebound) rates may be too high. If you have adjustable shocks it would pay to back them off a little and see if that helps. A spring rate change would obviously be a more costly but superior solution.

If you are truly looking for superior handling then removing the HICAS would be my next move.

Hope that helps.

[Craved]

sweet, cheers sydney kid!

i have already moved the rear sway bar to the outer holes, and backed of the shocks closer to stock rates. have noticed a fair difference but will have to wait for new tyres as the ones on there are gone!

front bar is already set to full stiffness, actually needed to swap the brackets that hold them on the actually get them all the way in (firmest setting)!

thanks for the clarification!

one more question, would the removal of the hicas also reduce oversteer? less momentum pushing it sideways?

thanks again

[Genesis®]

yeah ... sydneykid gave me alot of valuable advice as well on my car's handling. he's a champ with plenty of experience in this area.

[Craved]

well hopefully the NSW boys will go out to wakefield in feb, i'll new tyres and some time to play with the settings! just with the feel of the car now, i think its the almost bald tyres causing the issue now

[Sydneykid]

Hi Craved, I believe that removing the HICAS is a good move for a couple of reasons...........

Firstly I like to be in control of the rear end via the throttle. The HICAS computer is slow and dumb, ie; it doesn't act very quickly and only has limited inputs. So it does things too late and sometimes they are the wrong things. It tries to help the rear traction by steering the wheels and this works OK, but only for as long as the car is within the traction limits of the tyre.

Secondly, rear tyres don't like to be twisted around when they are already under a lot of side load and scrambling for traction. The HICAS movement of the tyre is enough to break the contact patch on the road and the car slides. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Then the HICAS tries to fix that by changing the steering angle and the whole thing starts all over again.

So, to answer your question, sometimes the HICAS adds to the oversteer and sometimes it doesn't. That's the killer, with the throttle and suspension setup, I have consistency. This gives the driver more confidence and consequently you can drive the car closer to the limits (ie; faster).

Hope that makes sense

[NRB]

What's the best way to disable it on an R32 GTR? I assume you need to put a "locking bar" of some sort in, and somehow prevent the hydraulics from working? Nice technically worded question I know!

[Craved]

that makes perfect sense! although i was under the imnpression that it was directly related to the steering wheel! so that when the wheel is straight it wouldn't have any impact etc. have noticed though that afetr ive change the rear sway bar, that when it does slide it snaps back alot harder, where as before had no "snap" at all! just need time to play with it.

but thanks for the info, given me a few ideas for later!

hey nrb, try the link below

http://www.uniqueautosports.com/pricelists...%20steering.htm

[Craved]

that removes the hydrolics alltogether, but dont know if it affects the ecu at all!

[Sydneykid]

Hi Guys, we remove all of the HICAS stuff of our R32 road/race cars. We replace the rear rack with an billet alloy block, shaped and threaded to suit. This locks the rear wheels and stops them from steering. Some people just pull out the HICAS fuse but this will still allow some movement under load.

We remove all of the pipes, hose fittings, mounting blocks and the rear (1) and front (2) solenoids. We then take the hose that usually goes from the power steering pump to the front solenoids and re-route it so the fluid goes straight through the oil cooler pipe.

Removing all this saves almost 30 kgs (including the excess fluid) and the car handles much more predicably on the circuit and on the road. None of the GTR's circuit race cars I have seen anywhere in the world (including the Gibson ones here in Australia) ran the HICAS.

Simple HICAS bypass kits are available from people like Jun, Apexi, Tomei etc. They have a couple of washers that stop the rack from moving and an electronic box that tricks the HICAS computer into thinking the rack is still working and so the dashboard warning light doesn't come on.

There are other kits around that have a replacement for the rack and a small bypass hose that goes between the two standard hoses at the rear rack. This makes the HICAS computer think the rack is still working and so the dashboard warning light doesn't come on. Stillen make kits like this for Z32's.

There are relatively cheap solid rear rack replacements available (eg; Japanese Motorsport) but the HICAS warning light comes on when you remove all of the other stuff. Some people (including me) remove the HICAS warning light bulb to fix this problem.

My suggestion to people when they ask about HICAS is to remove it totally because it saves weight and the car handles better. If they don't want to go to all the trouble and expense that involves, then I tell them to use a Tomei kit. Takes under an hour to fit by an amateur with limited tools. Whatever way you do it, the car will need a wheel alignment when finished.

Hope that helps.

[NRB]

Sydneykid, we can always count on you to come up with the goods! If I were to remove the entire system, what sort of dollars am I looking at?

[Craved]

sydneykid

so these replacement racks like from unique/jms are similar to what you do, or is there more involved in what you do to remove this!

[Sydneykid]

Hi Craved, when we did our HICAS removal there wasn't anything available aftermarket. I saw a 300ZX at the Targa Tas that had a Stillen rear rack replacement made out of billet aluminium. So I took a photo, measured the R32 up and had our race fabricator machine one up (he has done a few since). They look a bit more fancy than the steel ones you can buy now for Skylines, but work the same. Since we still use the standard steering arms they are adjustable for toe, which does make a difference to the handling.

To answer your question, once we replace the rear steering rack we then remove all of the HICAS stuff, as I said in the previous post. It weighs a lot and just gets in the way after all.

I have driven another R32 with the Tomei locking washers and electronic trickery, and it seemed to work well. The only disadvantage is you still have 30 kgs of stuff that you don't need and to take advantage of that you have to spend some time removing it. The advantage is, you can turn it back to standard very quickly, about the same as you spent modifying it in the first place.

So the question is not one of which is better, they both end up with the same result as far as removing the rear steering and improving the handling goes. It is which of the advantages/disadvantages suits your personal requirements.

Last point whenever you remove or add rear steering you need a rear wheel alignment. The toe changes are dramatic and must be corrected.

Hope that helps some more

[Craved]

yeah, i saw an article on that z, nice looking rack from stillen! will look into it later, maybe to fabricate something myself, well i might as well have a go!

Thanks for all the info!

Cheers

Chris

[NRB]

Sydneykid, I'm having my rear k-frame replaced as all the bushes are stuffed. It would be a good tiome to remove all the HICAS gear then... I just want to make sure that we get everything off, and don't have any potential problem areas by doing something wrong.

Are there any pointers/tricks/tips you can give us, so that we do it correctly?

Thanks,

Nick

[Sydneykid]

Hi Nick, the R32 HICAS system has three solenoids, one at the rear near the rack and two at the front, on the inner guard under the inlet manifold. There is pipework that goes from the power steering pump under the engine, then into the solenoids, from the solenoids along more pipework to the rear solenoid. It thne returns to the front, through the cooler pipes (in front of the radiator) and then back into the power steering reservoir.

What I do is remove the front solenoids, the pipework to the rear, the rear solenoid and the rear rack. I then reroute the hose that used to go to the front solenoids, straight to the cooler pipe. Replace the rear rack with a solid one, whatever type you choose.

Hope that helps

[NRB]

Thanks again for your invaluable input!

[pinoi_boi_r33]

is there much difference with removing it for an r33 gtst? i saw on www.nismo.com.au its just a bar but do i have to remove all that stuff as well as rerouting etc? I ain't much of a mechanic so yeah can ya help me out.

thanx.

rom.

[Sumo]

the r33 doesn't look to bad as its all electronic, you may be able to get a plug to loop back the computer at the parcel shelf. you would just need a stiff bar to replace it with

[Gradenko]

Anyone know where we can get a R33 hicas replacement brace for less than the $325 UAS want for one? Sydneykid, could check how much a billet one would cost from your race fabricator?