Aeromotions Dynamic Wing

[LSX-438]

I installed the aeromotions R2 wing on the r35 recently. I started with a carbon bootlid, and had an auto sparky rig it up so i can swap out the stocker boot+wing for the carbon boot+aeromotions wing - as and when required.

We went to a practice day last wednesday to test it all out, at Eastern Creek. I was running (2nd hand) slicks too (never ran slicks at EC before). Suffice to say the combination of the slicks and wing yielded a 2.2 second improvement (on the lap times). So i would say the wing was good for at least a second. The car felt much more stable and predictable, however i think the biggest advantage is during braking (as the wing has a dynamic angle for braking).

Here's a pic and video, any questions send me a PM...

[Al]

Not really a great test for the wing though.

You should have swapped back the std wing and did a few more laps to compair back-to-back.

I would imagine that the slicks would be give you most (if not all) the gains.

Just my 2c

[Duncan]

I have a question.....you know moveable aero devices are banned by cams right? if you bring it on sunday hopefully you will be ok.....but bring the standard one as well

[Duncan]

oh btw I love the things....wish we were allowed to use them. not just this but I could think of a few places where active aero or active suspension would be great

[TheTunersGroup]

I installed the aeromotions R2 wing on the r35 recently ...

We went to a practice day last wednesday to test it all out, at Eastern Creek. I was running (2nd hand) slicks too (never ran slicks at EC before). Suffice to say the combination of the slicks and wing yielded a 2.2 second improvement (on the lap times) ... The car felt much more stable and predictable, however i think the biggest advantage is during braking (as the wing has a dynamic angle for braking).

Great results there Duncan.

I saw your car during one of Wednesday's sessions at Eastern Creek and it looked great through turn one.

We were at Eastern Creek on Wednesday with Mark Berry's R34 GT-R which is also now running an Aeromotions R2 Dynamic Wing ...

Were you running the factory Aeromotions wing tune all day on the R35 or have you done any tuning of the wing settings yet ?

Do you have a datalogger in your car ? What sort of speeds were you seeing through turn one ?

- Adam

[TheTunersGroup]

I have a question.....you know moveable aero devices are banned by cams right?

Hi Duncan,

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing has a feature that allows the wing be locked into a static position on race day specifically for events where active aero is not allowed on race day.

There are a set of turnbuckles that can be used to mechanically lock the Dynamic Wing into a fixed static setting for raceday for events where active aero is not allowed.

There is also a static version of the Aeromotions wing without the dynamic controller called the R2 Static Wing ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromo..._r2_static.html

The dynamic version and the static version of the Aeromotions R2 Wing both use the same low drag, high efficiency wing element profile.

In terms of using the Dynamic version in a locked static mode for events where active aero is not allowed on race day, the wing profile of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing was developed from military research into wing profiles used on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV's).

This cutting edge wing profile provides outstanding efficiency, low drag and superior aerodynamic performance, whether it is run in active mode or locked into static mode.

Teams using the Dynamic Wing in events where active aero is not allowed on race day use the wing in dynamic mode during testing with the in car remote to find the right wing setting quickly, then mechanically lock the wing with the chosen static angle of attack setting for race day.

- Adam

Edited March 5, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[Duncan]

fair enough, I think that will be required.

Schedule F of General Requirements says:

"Any specific part of the automobile which has an aerodynamic influence on the stability of the automobile

must be mounted on the entirely sprung part of the car and shall be firmly fixed whilst the automobile is in

motion."

So active aero is not legal at any CAMS event including the sprint this sunday, or superlap for that matter. Hopefully the scruits will allow it through and no-one will protest the results, would be a sad way to lose.

[TheTunersGroup]

The words "firmly fixed whilst the automobile is in motion" need to be clarified for their exact meaning. We will check with CAMS about this.

Schedule F of the CAMS general requirements for cars and drivers does NOT specifically say "active aero is not allowed" - so we will check with CAMS to check if the meaning of "firmly fixed" simply means something like "securely attached so that aero parts do not fly off the car".

If you look at the number of cars that now have active aero as factory standard equipment (including the Mitsubishi GTO / GT3000, Bugatti Veyron, McLaren F1 roadcar, Porsche Panamera, and Ferrari 458 Italia), active aero is becoming more popular as a factory feature.

- Adam

[handbrake]

interested to know the result thanks Adam

nice setup Dunc

Are you really going to take the boot on and off regularly or do you rarely street the car?

more pics!

[LSX-438]

I have a question.....you know moveable aero devices are banned by cams right? if you bring it on sunday hopefully you will be ok.....but bring the standard one as well

I asked to run the active wing at sprints and was granted permission, which is why i went ahead and purchased it. But yes it can be locked in a position if required.

[LSX-438]

Not really a great test for the wing though.

You should have swapped back the std wing and did a few more laps to compair back-to-back.

I would imagine that the slicks would be give you most (if not all) the gains.

Just my 2c

I agree with that. Not the best test/comparison, given the slicks. What i can say though is that the seat of the pants evaluation (on how the car handles/feels) does mean something though. I have run the car on slicks before (just not at EC).

[TheTunersGroup]

I asked to run the active wing at sprints and was granted permission, which is why i went ahead and purchased it. But yes it can be locked in a position if required.

That's great to know LSX-438

- Adam

Edited March 5, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[LSX-438]

Do you have a datalogger in your car ? What sort of speeds were you seeing through turn one ?

- Adam

Adam yes i had a datalogger and sorry to say i dont have big enough balls. Top speed at T1 apex was 178km (242km/hr vmax on the straight). Probably another 10km/hr easily at t1 when i get my act together. I just need to learn to trust the aero.

I would expect the R34 would be well over 200km/hr at T1 apex? Totally different class of car, awesome.

Edited March 5, 2010 by LSX-438

[LSX-438]

interested to know the result thanks Adam

nice setup Dunc

Are you really going to take the boot on and off regularly or do you rarely street the car?

more pics!

Dunno if i will bother swapping it out but we will see. Another reason to package it up on an aftermarket boot is so that i can sell it as a bolt-off / bolt-on package later, and return the car to stocker appearance quickly and easily. Something to note is that Nissan AU are asking $3000 for a blank (unpainted of course) boot lit, with no wing on it! The carbon item was less than 1/3 the price.

[TheTunersGroup]

Not really a great test for the wing though.

You should have swapped back the std wing and did a few more laps to compair back-to-back.

Hi Al,

A number of teams running the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings have already publicly released info on their lap time improvements with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing. Physics works exactly the same way in Australia as it does in the US, so the US results are just as relevant to Australia.

Aeromotions also did a back to back test at Thunderhill Raceway. As it says on our website, lap times at the back to back test were ...

Without Aeromotions Wing: 2 minutes 10.1 seconds

With Aeromotions Static Wing: 2 minutes 9.2 seconds

With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing: 2 Minutes 8.4 seconds

With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence: 2 minutes 7.7 seconds.

Lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than with a static wing, and 2.4 seconds faster than without an Aeromotions wing.

You can find links to the test data and a video of the back to back test with Traqmate Data Acquisition, a summary of the data and info about the car, driver and testing methodology, detailed turn by turn data analysis including plots turn by turn of the lateral G-force, acceleration and braking G-force, velocity, and time difference here ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html

There are a bunch of comments here from various teams about the lap time improvements they have had running the Aeromotions Wing ...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...t&p=4916143

- Adam

[TheTunersGroup]

interested to know the result thanks Adam

Probably another 10km/hr easily at t1 when i get my act together. I just need to learn to trust the aero.

I would expect the R34 would be well over 200km/hr at T1 apex? Totally different class of car, awesome.

Hi handbrake,

I'll ask Mark Berry on Monday for an official comment about the performance of the Advan / Hi Octane Racing R34 GT-R with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing.

We can't (and wouldn't) post any test data from Mark's R34 without the team's permission. Generally top teams in events like the World Time Attack Challenge don't publish their testing lap times as there is no point in letting the overseas cars know how what lap times the R34 is doing

We had video cameras on the R34 on Wednesday at Eastern Creek, and the video is absolutely mindblowing - the R34 is an absolute weapon. I'll ask Mark if we can post some segments from the video footage on Monday.

Yep Duncan, confidence is a big factor at turn one at Eastern Creek. It's a lot smoother now than it was a few years ago - does anyone else remember the old surface change in turn one ? The Supercharged 911 would step out at the rear as it hit the surface change in turn one - "interesting" at that speed

There is a video of it doing that in turn one in the second video on this page ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/Videos/Supercharged_911.html

- Adam

Edited March 5, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[Martin Donnon]

Adam yes i had a datalogger and sorry to say i dont have big enough balls. Top speed at T1 apex was 178km (242km/hr vmax on the straight). Probably another 10km/hr easily at t1 when i get my act together. I just need to learn to trust the aero.

Dunc, you may find that you are not actually any quicker across the face of turn 1 at EC due to the 'sitting a fat kid in the boot' effect of the wing. As we both know high speed oversteer is not an issue with the GTR, so giving more rear downforce (unbalanced) will generate more high speed understeer, a condition to which the GTR is naturally prone, and one that is acceptable, however not desirable. The real advantage of the AM wing on the GTR will be seen when the nose is balanced with better downforce - at least thats my take on it. Testing Monday

[Duncan]

The words "firmly fixed whilst the automobile is in motion" need to be clarified for their exact meaning. We will check with CAMS about this.

Schedule F of the CAMS general requirements for cars and drivers does NOT specifically say "active aero is not allowed" - so we will check with CAMS to check if the meaning of "firmly fixed" simply means something like "securely attached so that aero parts do not fly off the car".

If you look at the number of cars that now have active aero as factory standard equipment (including the Mitsubishi GTO / GT3000, Bugatti Veyron, McLaren F1 roadcar, Porsche Panamera, and Ferrari 458 Italia), active aero is becoming more popular as a factory feature.

- Adam

Hi Adam, I am pretty confident that fixed means fixed in relation to the body, not just that it can't fall off.....these rules have been in place a long time and active aero is not a new idea

I asked to run the active wing at sprints and was granted permission, which is why i went ahead and purchased it. But yes it can be locked in a position if required.

good to hear, I would hate to see it impact the champioship

Adam yes i had a datalogger and sorry to say i dont have big enough balls. Top speed at T1 apex was 178km (242km/hr vmax on the straight). Probably another 10km/hr easily at t1 when i get my act together. I just need to learn to trust the aero.

I would expect the R34 would be well over 200km/hr at T1 apex? Totally different class of car, awesome.

You might be surprised about how little quicker other cars can go through there, it very quickly becomes a question of outright grip and the weight of the car. Anything over 1200kg is likely to have comparable speeds through there, and that includes up to supercars (I do not know their exact speeds, but not much over 200, ie within 10% of your speed). Of course a sports sedan with full aero and 800kg carries a few km more and I guess the formula cars are running up to 240 though there.

I doubt it has much if anything to do with your commitment in the turn. Very strong top speed btw considering how stock it is.

[Duncan]

btw duncan you should get one of those harness bars from the other thread....looks like your belts are at more than 45o angle not good considering how quick you are going....

[Neil]

I asked to run the active wing at sprints and was granted permission, which is why i went ahead and purchased it. But yes it can be locked in a position if required.

I'd be interested to know who's granted you permission to use it Duncan.

My (and I'll bet I'm not alone) issue with it being locked, is whats to stop it being un-locked after scrutineering. If all the front runners start using it,(me included) we will need pre-grid and post grid inspections, which would suck.

I'm far from happy with it even being on the car quite frankly and I would hate to see you win the championship again and then be protested.

Oh by the way I've asked the Supersprint panel to change the web site so your car is up as the No 1 car.

Neil.