Aeromotions Dynamic Wing

[TheTunersGroup]

I'm sure carrying an aeromotions wing set for a fast lap around a tight circuit the GT-R wont get anywhere near 300 KPH on an autobahn. Economy would probably also suffer with that dragging behind you...

Hi fungoolie,

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing addresses drag in a number of different ways ...

Firstly it flattens automatically into a flatter low drag angle of attack on the straights - so it can run a high downforce angle of attack in the corners, AND a low drag angle of attack on the straights.

That is one of the key advantages of having automated computer control over the wing angle.

On the Aeromotions R2.TWO Dynamic Wing you can have separate adjustable angles of attack for straightline, high speed cornering, low speed cornering and braking. The photo above is of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing controller from the S2 Wing showing some of the wing tuning controls.

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wings come with a stock wing angle tune for your car pre-programmed into the controller.

The angles are simple to adjust and an in car remote (shown above) is included to adjust the wing angle settings from the driver's seat for custom tuning.

In addition, apart from the wing angle changing to a flatter low drag position on the straights, additionally the wing profile of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing is a high efficiency low drag profile that was developed from military research into wing profiles used on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV's). So when the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing controller flattens the wing into the low drag position on the straights, you get the advantages of a low drag wing profile in a flatter position.

There is detailed info about how Aeromotions Dynamic Wings address drag, as well as info on custom tuning here ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/AM_custom_tuning.html

- The Tuners Group

Edited April 16, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[LSX-438]

If i knew how to post 1.2mb vids i have footage Truth is know way i would get in one when they are doing 2 wheel u-ys accrss city intersections almost getting t-boned You wont get me touching betel leaf either

Was the original poster able to find logs from with and without the wing? Its a dramatic improvement over a simgle lap, did Nissan miss something with the wing on the std car, they put all that money into the chassis, gearbox and electronis ...seems strange that the wing woudl be so rubbsh

posting videos shouldn't be too much of a stretch; there is this website called youtube, perhaps check it out. might be too much technology though.

original poster WAS able to source r35 stocker wing + wakefield vs r35 aeromotions gps lateral g data. i am not about to share it atm though. your comments on the OEM/factory setup vs track day warrior desired setup shows how much you understand about what us idiotic trackday junkies need (yes it's insane, and farking a lot of fun). oh hang on, maybe the factory setup (for any car) is actually a no compromise track setup (ffs).

dunno why i bother.

anyway, about to pass out, just arrived in bathurst for two days of bathurst track fun.

try it sometime.

peace out!

[fungoolie]

Hi fungoolie,

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing addresses drag in a number of different ways ...

Firstly it flattens automatically into a flatter low drag angle of attack on the straights - so it can run a high downforce angle of attack in the corners, AND a low drag angle of attack on the straights.

That is one of the key advantages of having automated computer control over the wing angle.

All totally understood. I was talking about a fixed wing equivalent to the one the GT-R has already. I fully appreciate the advantages of the Aeromotions design.

Short of a car like the Veyron, I haven't seen a factory wing that comes close to the functions of the Aeromotions wing and the cost and complexity of such a wing would have probably been out of the scope of the design brief for a car in the price range of the GT-R. For all of the Aeromotion's advantages Im pretty sure that an equivalent factory wing would have to be a lot more integrated and built to a standard that the Aeromotions cannot begin to match. For starters it would need to be hydraulically actuated and not flap around in the breeze at highway speeds. The cable operation with all the inherent play in the system is fine for a racetrack only application but starts to look a bit cheap and nasty in a road application. So short of the car costing, (just a guess), $15K more just for the sake of the "low-compromise" adaptive wing you will always suffer from the drag/downforce tradeoff. Thats why Nissan did not overlook this fundamental performance enhancing adjunct and that the standard wing is not "rubbish". Thats the comment I was addressing. Not that the Aeromotions design cannot provide extra downforce without commensurate drag....

Edited April 17, 2010 by fungoolie

[Roy]

posting videos shouldn't be too much of a stretch; there is this website called youtube, perhaps check it out. might be too much technology though.

original poster WAS able to source r35 stocker wing + wakefield vs r35 aeromotions gps lateral g data. i am not about to share it atm though. your comments on the OEM/factory setup vs track day warrior desired setup shows how much you understand about what us idiotic trackday junkies need (yes it's insane, and farking a lot of fun). oh hang on, maybe the factory setup (for any car) is actually a no compromise track setup (ffs).

dunno why i bother.

anyway, about to pass out, just arrived in bathurst for two days of bathurst track fun.

try it sometime.

peace out!

Go the afternoon roast! ....

So you were not surprised that at such a low speed track where to do the lap times you are, about (127km/h average speed) you saw such an improvement from a wing?

Fair point about pedestrian injury etc, but this thing has undertrays, blah, blah blah, i had assumed that the std wing would have been doing a great job to bang around the Ring in the time it does...to the point i wouldnt have expected it to make much difference at Wakefield (the goat track it is)

So since you already know i am a cock bag i will ask is the data overlay from the other car, does it run the same tyres, wheel alignment and suspension? The fact that i happen to have an interest in all this jazz means i am genuinely curious. I dont assume you to be silly or not understand the variables, but you have to realise that its a big gain so have to expect questions.

It will be interesting to see how you go with some more running with the wing...

..and you are right, i dont understand what these cars need. I would have thought a wing would be down the bottom of the list...you jsut never know. I never thought that because the weight of the car give the car plenty of normal load on the tyres in cornering so therefore good traction anyway. A wing gives downforce which effectvely just puts more weight over the wheels therefore increasing traction. So, if the thing was a 580kg Caterham then maybe I would have ecxpected the improvement from a wing.... just saying thats all

[TheTunersGroup]

For all of the Aeromotion's advantages Im pretty sure that an equivalent factory wing would have to be a lot more integrated and built to a standard that the Aeromotions cannot begin to match.

Of course a factory rear wing would be integrated. Take a look at the photos below of the factory movable wings on the Porsche 964 and Panamera.

In terms of the quality standards and speed rating standards that Aeromotions wings are built to, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic wings are both rated to 321 km/h. The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing is rated to 321 km/h +.

In terms of build quality, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic Wing use a carbon fibre wing blade and aircraft aluminum uprights.

The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing uses teardrop shaped uprights from an aeroplane, Formula 1 grade pre-preg carbon fibre, internal actuators, titanium hardware, and extreme heat sinking.

When was the last time you saw titanium and Formula 1 grade pre-preg carbon fibre on a car ?

For starters it would need to be hydraulically actuated and not flap around in the breeze at highway speeds.

The Aeromotions Wing certainly does not "flap around in the breeze at highway speeds".

As mentioned above, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic wings are both rated to 321 km/h. The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing is rated to 321 km/h +.

Why would an OEM movable wing need to be hydraulically actuated ? Porsche fitted an active rear wing to the Porsche 964 (shown above) and that uses an electric wing motor, not a hydraulic motor.

http://www.performance2and4.co.uk/964_wtlookcoupe_n.htm reads ...

Introduced in March 1993 to celebrate the 30 years of continuous production of the 911 ...

The specification was like the 1993 model Carrera 4, but with full leather, the electric rear spoiler, 17" Cup wheels, sunroof and air conditioning.

The Porsche Panamera also has an active rear wing ...

The cable operation with all the inherent play in the system is fine for a racetrack only application but starts to look a bit cheap and nasty in a road application.

What ? What "play" are you talking about ?

The Aeromotions wing was born in the wind tunnel at Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT (the world's premier private research and engineering university and a participating institution in the National Space Grant College and Fellowship Program which is administered by NASA), and has had countless hours of refinement through Computational Fluid Dynamic modeling (CFD).

Are you suggesting that such a wing would have "inherent play in the system" ?! Have you ever seen an Aeromotions Dynamic Wing up close ?

The system that adjusts the wing angle in the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings is extremely well thought out and provides very precise control over the wing angles.

The Porsche factory movable rear wing on the Porsche 964 uses a mechanical cable to transmit the power to move the wing from the electric wing motor to the wing mechanics. I know this because I have a Porsche 964 rear wing on my workbench right now.

If cables were not suitable for use in movable wing applications, Porsche would not have used a mechanical cable system. The fact that Porsche used a mechanical cable system on the Porsche 964 speaks volumes.

How much do you know about the different kinds of mechanical cables used to transfer mechanical force in racecar applications ? The cable on the Porsche 964 wing is not like a pull cable where when the force is released a spring pulls as the force unloads - it is a twist cable, and clearly Porsche chose the metallurgy for that twist cable based on the engineering requirements.

Top time attack and race cars like the Cannonball R35 GT-R, Crawford Subaru WRX STi, AMS/NOS Energy Drink EVO X, and Mark Berry's Advan R34 GT-R all use Aeromotions Dynamic Wings.

The precision and reliability of the system used on the Aeromotions Dynamic wing to control the wing angle is well known to all those teams and well proven in top levels of time attack racing around the world.

So short of the car costing, (just a guess), $15K more just for the sake of the "low-compromise" adaptive wing you will always suffer from the drag/downforce tradeoff. Thats why Nissan did not overlook this fundamental performance enhancing adjunct and that the standard wing is not "rubbish".

$15K more ?! Where did $15K come from ?!

A link to the prices on the Aeromotions Dynamic wings has already been posted in this thread and are also available on our website.

US retail pricing on the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing is US$1699 and for the Aeromotions R2.ONE Dynamic Wing is US$3249.

That is nowhere near $15,000 !

In terms of your comment that "you will always suffer from the drag/downforce tradeoff", any moving object with a cross section has aerodynamic drag (unless it is moving in the vacuum of space) - that is simple physics and the laws of nature.

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing has the ability for drag to be reduced by moving the wing element into a flatter, low drag angle of attack on the straights. It also allows you to run a steeper angle of attack for more downforce in corners, without having to have the wing at the steeper angle of attack when on the straight.

So it's simple - you get downforce when and where you need it, and low aerodynamic drag on the straights.

Add to that the high efficiency low drag wing profile used on the Aeromotions Wings which was developed from military research into wing profiles used on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV's), and it's simple to see how the combination of:

1. a high efficiency low drag wing profile

2. the ability of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing to flatten into a low drag angle of attack on straights, and

3. the ability of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing to run programmable and adjustable steeper high downforce angles of attack under braking and in corners

... help cars fitted Aeromotions Dynamic Wings perform so well on the track.

As we have said a number of times in this thread ...

The key is the laptime, which speaks for itself and clearly demonstrates the effectiveness of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings.

The stopwatch doesn't lie.

- The Tuners Group

Edited April 17, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[Duncan]

wow...this thread is still going strong....

but we are all still ignoring the fact they are banned from all cams events under schedule F as confirmed recently by the cams national technical officer.

I've got no doubts that dynamic aero can make great difference, and I have no doubt that is why they were banned. as if no-one has thought about the idea since the 70s when F1 first ran this stuff.

Sports sedans explore absolutely every angle of the rules and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on the development of each car, do you think they might have given this a go if they could?

[TheTunersGroup]

LSX-438 is running the Aeromotions R2 Dynamic Wing in the CAMS NSW Supersprint Championships.

LSX-438 has already stated in this thread ...

I asked to run the active wing at sprints and was granted permission

... and ...

was granted permission to run it active? or fixed?

I have permission to run the active wing, so active, yes.

- The Tuners Group

Edited April 17, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[TheTunersGroup]

i will ask is the data overlay from the other car, does it run the same tyres, wheel alignment and suspension? The fact that i happen to have an interest in all this jazz means i am genuinely curious. I dont assume you to be silly or not understand the variables, but you have to realise that its a big gain so have to expect questions.

Hi Roy,

It's up to LSX-438 to decide if he wants to post more info such as the G-force plots from his testing etc.

LSX-438 is competing in the CAMS Supersprint Championships, and no racing team can be expected to post their testing data plots publicly (which could potentially help any teams who are competing against them).

If you want to see back to back testing data, as previously mentioned in this thread:

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wings are a proven quantity and there is already a lot of hard data to show how well they work. Likewise how to test aero changes is also already known and Aeromotions have already published detailed testing data.

As we wrote in a post earlier in this thread ...

"A number of teams running the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings have already publicly released info on their lap time improvements with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing. Physics works exactly the same way in Australia as it does in the US, so the US results are just as relevant to Australia."

Aeromotions also did a back to back test at Thunderhill Raceway (screenshot from the test above). As it says on our website, lap times at the back to back test were ...

Without Aeromotions Wing: 2 minutes 10.1 seconds

With Aeromotions Static Wing: 2 minutes 9.2 seconds

With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing: 2 Minutes 8.4 seconds

With Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence: 2 minutes 7.7 seconds.

So at the Thunderhill test, adding an Aeromotions Static Wing shaved 0.9 second off the lap time without an Aeromotions Wing.

Lap times with the Aeromotions Dynamic Wing With Centre Fence were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than with the Aeromotions Static Wing, and 2.4 seconds faster than without an Aeromotions wing.

There is data from the back to back testing at Thunderhill Raceway complete with Traqmate Data Acquisition data, a summary of the data and info about the car, driver and testing methodology, and a detailed turn by turn data analysis, which includes plots turn by turn of the lateral G-force, acceleration and braking G-force, velocity, and time difference ...

The data from the Thunderhill test and the feedback from teams using the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings is here ...

http://www.tunersgroup.com/Products/aeromotions.html ...

The key is the laptime, which speaks for itself and clearly demonstrates the effectiveness of the Aeromotions Dynamic Wings.

The stopwatch doesn't lie.

- The Tuners Group

Edited April 17, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[fungoolie]

Of course a factory rear wing would be integrated. Take a look at the photos below of the factory movable wings on the Porsche 964 and Panamera.

In terms of the quality standards and speed rating standards that Aeromotions wings are built to, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic wings are both rated to 321 km/h. The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing is rated to 321 km/h +.

In terms of build quality, the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing and R2 Dynamic Wing use a carbon fibre wing blade and aircraft aluminum uprights.

The Aeromotions S2 Dynamic Wing uses teardrop shaped uprights from an aeroplane, Formula 1 grade pre-preg carbon fibre, internal actuators, titanium hardware, and extreme heat sinking.

When was the last time you saw titanium and Formula 1 grade pre-preg carbon fibre on a car ?

The Aeromotions Wing certainly does not "flap around in the breeze at highway speeds".

US retail pricing on the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing is US$1699 and for the Aeromotions R2.ONE Dynamic Wing is US$3249.

That is nowhere near $15,000 !

In terms of your comment that "you will always suffer from the drag/downforce tradeoff", any moving object with a cross section has aerodynamic drag (unless it is moving in the vacuum of space) - that is simple physics and the laws of nature.

The Aeromotions Dynamic Wing has the ability for drag to be reduced by moving the wing element into a flatter, low drag angle of attack on the straights. It also allows you to run a steeper angle of attack for more downforce in corners, without having to have the wing at the steeper angle of attack when on the straight.

So it's simple - you get downforce when and where you need it, and low aerodynamic drag on the straights.

- The Tuners Group

I have seen the wing up close and have spoken to the owners of it. It does have a lot of play in the system and does move significantly when even slight force is applied to it. For all your talk of the cable technology used by Porsche et al in actuating these wings, I just made the simple observation that I grabbed the wing and wobbled it and the simple play in the pivot points etc allowed it to move from memory around a whole cm up and down at the rear. Yes the wing itself is stiff but the assembly as a whole is loose and I'm not sure how much of this play can be removed. Perhaps the example I saw had not been installed or set up correctly. I don't doubt its structual integrity at 320 kph. I'm just commenting on how wind buffet does makes the wing oscillate at highway speeds in the example I have observed up close.

Your picture of the Panamera wing clearly illustrates my point about how a factory active wing on the GT-R would need to be significantly more integrated and of higher "quality". By quality I'm not talking about the grade of your aluminium or the carbon fibre or the fact you use titanium. I'm just passing a comment on the overall impression of quality that the wing imparts due to the issues commented on above. That's where my bum pluck of $15K comes from. I'm not saying your wing costs that much. I'm just saying thats probably what a wing would add to the cost of a car if integrated to the level of the Porsche examples youve shown. That is what Nissan would have had to deal with in their decision to not go down the path of installing an active wing on this car. My first post simply stated that the standard wing is a balance between drag and downforce and that Nissan could have gone for a mega wing, even an active design but then the car would not have achieved other design objectives such as top speed, cost, fuel consumption etc.

And as far as the active nature of the wing reducing the drag/downforce problem, where have I disagreed with this? All I said was;

"So short of the car costing, (just a guess), $15K more just for the sake of the "low-compromise" adaptive wing you will always suffer from the drag/downforce tradeoff. Thats why Nissan did not overlook this fundamental performance enhancing adjunct and that the standard wing is not "rubbish". Thats the comment I was addressing. Not that the Aeromotions design cannot provide extra downforce without commensurate drag...."

I'm just commenting on my observations. Anyone who sees this wing up close would draw the same conclusions. I think your wing is a brilliant product for the money. All I'm saying is that if Nissan went for an active wing design it would have cost significantly more than what your wing costs and would be of a far more integrated design. Hence would have added a hell of a lot more to the cost of the car and probably why Nissan didn't opt for this approach. This was all in response to the initial post I was responding to that indicated that Nissan was somehow overlooking what could have be achieved with a standard wing....Thats all.

Edited April 17, 2010 by fungoolie

[TheTunersGroup]

Perhaps the example I saw had not been installed or set up correctly. I don't doubt its structual integrity at 320 kph.

We have forwarded your comments to Aeromotions and will await an official reply from them.

Which model of wing was on the car you saw ?

- The Tuners Group

Edited April 17, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[LSX-438]

Go the afternoon roast! ....

So you were not surprised that at such a low speed track where to do the lap times you are, about (127km/h average speed) you saw such an improvement from a wing?

Fair point about pedestrian injury etc, but this thing has undertrays, blah, blah blah, i had assumed that the std wing would have been doing a great job to bang around the Ring in the time it does...to the point i wouldnt have expected it to make much difference at Wakefield (the goat track it is)

So since you already know i am a cock bag i will ask is the data overlay from the other car, does it run the same tyres, wheel alignment and suspension? The fact that i happen to have an interest in all this jazz means i am genuinely curious. I dont assume you to be silly or not understand the variables, but you have to realise that its a big gain so have to expect questions.

It will be interesting to see how you go with some more running with the wing...

..and you are right, i dont understand what these cars need. I would have thought a wing would be down the bottom of the list...you jsut never know. I never thought that because the weight of the car give the car plenty of normal load on the tyres in cornering so therefore good traction anyway. A wing gives downforce which effectvely just puts more weight over the wheels therefore increasing traction. So, if the thing was a 580kg Caterham then maybe I would have ecxpected the improvement from a wing.... just saying thats all

Roy, we're thinking too hard on this. All i know is this: i've seen / read about many USA cars making up to 0.5s to 1.0s per lap using this wing. Possibly other wings too, i have not done the research. If you can spend the equivilent of about two sets of tyres and (POSSIBLY) pick up 0.5 to 1.0s you would be mad not to try it (given apparent results). It's simple and innocent as that. This isnt much of a stretch beyond trying new tyres, or a new exhaust, dump pipe, cams, tune, wheels or whatever. But it seems to work, not just here but all over the world. Perhaps there is somethng in it, no? Just let it go. I have the data (gps+g meter) but to be frank i am too much of an amateur to construct any meaningful conclusion. We're just weekend warriors (barely). When i get back to sydney i will try and make up a chart for you.

Edited April 17, 2010 by LSX-438

[Martin Donnon]

We have forwarded your comments to Aeromotions and will await an official reply from them.

Which model of wing was on the car you saw ?

- The Tuners Group

No need to ask Aeromotions, ask us, its our car

We installed it correctly, and even amended the instruction manual for Aeromotions with proper photographs of the installation procedure, then proceeded to brace the bootlid of the vehicle correctly to cope with the load.

This is the car -

The wing has I believe helped the performance of the vehicle some, however its nowhere near as important as getting the basics of the car right in terms of spring, shock, and tyre setup. These basic adjustments carry much more weight than tuning the aero a smidge. Also for best effect the front of the car needs to be balanced, simply adding rear load 'can' contribute to high speed understeer (hence our own design splitter on the front)

Edited April 17, 2010 by Martin Donnon

[Duncan]

LSX-438 is running the Aeromotions R2 Dynamic Wing in the CAMS NSW Supersprint Championships.

LSX-438 has already stated in this thread ...

... and ...

I have permission to run the active wing, so active, yes.

- The Tuners Group

That misleading at best. The CAMS rules clearly and unambiguously exclude active aero. And because this is in Schedule F it applies to all CAMS events from super sprints to super lap to super cars.

LSX-438 did exactly the right thing by asking for advice from a member of the organising committee of the series he is competing in. However the advice was wrong as confirmed by the CAMS national technical officer. In my experience, because he asked for advice and received it, he will not be disadvantaged/disqualified from past rounds because he asked first.

Anyone wanting independent confirmation of the rules on active aero should contact the CAMS national techincal officer [email protected]

Of course if people buying these wings are doing so understanding they are only legal for AASA/Irace/Private days etc then that is fine. It is obviously an effective product as shown by Duncan and others elsewhere.

[Roy]

Roy, we're thinking too hard on this.

LOL, i know i am. I like analysing upgrades and looking at the science of this stuff...lol too bad i dont have near enough practical experience or sound enough understanding for the science to be applied correctly

For a solid improvement in lap times they do seem great value, i mean tyres lose their performance over runs and cost a packet, so something like the wing stacks up well in teh value stakes. Its just that , again, a victim of all my readings and research meant i would have thought there are better thing sout there, but these appear to work well

Other then the wing, i am real curious to know the difference the slicks make. Reading your various posts they seem to have given you 3-4seconds at EC, but i am not sure of what other mods you have may have done with the slicks when you broke the EC record.

Are the Porka slicks considered decent things, even though they come from a class where there is a control tyre?

[LSX-438]

LOL, i know i am. I like analysing upgrades and looking at the science of this stuff...lol too bad i dont have near enough practical experience or sound enough understanding for the science to be applied correctly

For a solid improvement in lap times they do seem great value, i mean tyres lose their performance over runs and cost a packet, so something like the wing stacks up well in teh value stakes. Its just that , again, a victim of all my readings and research meant i would have thought there are better thing sout there, but these appear to work well

Other then the wing, i am real curious to know the difference the slicks make. Reading your various posts they seem to have given you 3-4seconds at EC, but i am not sure of what other mods you have may have done with the slicks when you broke the EC record.

Are the Porka slicks considered decent things, even though they come from a class where there is a control tyre?

At the end of the day there are just too many variables to give 100% accurate answer Roy. We have data for the same car, same (brand, size, compound) tyres and same day (aftermarket wing vs stocker). But they were different drivers and different state of wear on tyres. How can we do this to your satisfaction? We need same car, exact same condition tyres each run, same (consistent) driver, same ambient temps, same track temps, same car conditions (heat soak, fuel load, whathaveyou). As you can see it's impossible to give a 100% answer. I can tell you i have run these times though:

+ RE55's 1:05.3 (first run at wakefield in this car)

+ Michelin Slicks 1:04.00

+ AM Wing 1:02.90

I think it's fair to say the wing works, for me. This is just my subjective evaluation. Just alike any one of thosands of posts on any number of forums where people say this and that works for them (exhausts, wheels, tyres, brakes, fuels, tuners, whatever).. I can't give you anything more really.

I reckon the porka slicks (even 2nd hand) work well on the r35 yep!

[Roy]

At the end of the day there are just too many variables to give 100% accurate answer Roy. We have data for the same car, same (brand, size, compound) tyres and same day (aftermarket wing vs stocker). But they were different drivers and different state of wear on tyres. How can we do this to your satisfaction? We need same car, exact same condition tyres each run, same (consistent) driver, same ambient temps, same track temps, same car conditions (heat soak, fuel load, whathaveyou). As you can see it's impossible to give a 100% answer. I can tell you i have run these times though:

+ RE55's 1:05.3 (first run at wakefield in this car)

+ Michelin Slicks 1:04.00

+ AM Wing 1:02.90

I think it's fair to say the wing works, for me. This is just my subjective evaluation. Just alike any one of thosands of posts on any number of forums where people say this and that works for them (exhausts, wheels, tyres, brakes, fuels, tuners, whatever).. I can't give you anything more really.

I reckon the porka slicks (even 2nd hand) work well on the r35 yep!

Mate, not having a go or trying to be a ball ache. I am just that kid that follows people around asking annoying questions, why, why, why ...you sure as shit dont have to do anything to my satisfaction or for me! And not asking you to quantify the position of the moon relative to the sun when both cars are braking...So you think the slicks are good for 1.5 (approx) seconds improvement over RE55s...assuming new sets of each?????

LOL, i will be banned for asking...but do you get the same fall off in tyre performance with slicks and heat cycles as you do with semis....is the gap possibly more then 1.5 or so seconds???? <{Roy}

[LSX-438]

it depends on the trakc but i would say the slicks are good for a second around wakefield, 1.5 seconds on OP (RIP) and probably (up to) 2 seconds on EC. Just a guesstimate.

[TheTunersGroup]

Fark me that is moving. Is it the fixed wing or variable one? Also, did you have newer tyres, different wheel alignment, more power/different tune etc. That is a massive gain from just putting on a wing at a slow circuit like Wakefield, espcially over a 62 second lap....are we sure its all down to the wing ?

Hi Roy,

GGTTRR has posted a new thread tonight with his results from Wakefield Park today running an Aeromotions R2 Static Wing on his R35.

Note that GGTTRR is running the static version of the Aeromotions Wing. It uses the same aerofoil as the R2 Dynamic wing, but does not have the added benefit of dynamic wing angle control (though it can be upgraded to dynamic operation later).

GGTTRR's post reads ...

There has been a lot of discussions on this topic posted by LSX-438 with lot of people having doubts about this wing.

My car is running Willall's tune and a mid pipe. Until today I've run this car twice at Wakefield Park with times 1:03.79 in December and 1:03.81 in April, I've installed the Aeromotion wing (form The Tuners Group) last Friday and today I've run 1:02.83.

This is almost full second improvement and the only difference was the wing.

By the way Duncan run 1:02.44 which is incredibly fast for a road car. Well done.

So my recommendation for people which take they cars to the track, and want to go fast is get the tune and get the wing. This is the best bang for your dollars you can get.

Well done to both GGTTRR and Duncan !

The new thread about the Aeromotions R2 Static Wing on GGTTRR's R35 is here ...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ae...ll-t318979.html

- The Tuners Group

Edited May 2, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[LSX-438]

Here's a video of a session where we ran a 1:02.44 at Wakefield yesterday

Lap in question starts around the 2:00 minute mark

Hitting in excess of 1.6g's on several turns now too.

I reckon some aftermarket suspension and/or some new slicks may see us into the 61's

[TheTunersGroup]

Here's a video of a session where we ran a 1:02.44 at Wakefield yesterday

Lap in question starts around the 2:00 minute mark

Hitting in excess of 1.6g's on several turns now too.

I reckon some aftermarket suspension and/or some new slicks may see us into the 61's

Great video Duncan. The car looks really planted in corners. The acceleration of your car from 80 to 210 on the straight is relentless !

- The Tuners Group

Edited May 2, 2010 by TheTunersGroup