Ultimate Track Suspension And Car Setup ?

[The Law]

Anyone gone through the whole suspension mod thing withtheir 35 ?

I am thinking about doing mine and was considering:

Sway Bars

Coilovers or lower springs: springs would of course be adjustable but a much more expensive option than springs

After Market lower control arms to allow more agressive camber (or is it caster I cant remember)

Anything else that will cure the cars understeer tendancy and give me more speed around the track.

By the look of the pics of Martins car (Willalls) looks like he has gone the whole hog but dont know details, dont want an expensiuve reinvention of the wheel process.

Ok, anyone ??

[Duncan]

By the look of the pics of Martins car (Willalls) looks like he has gone the whole hog but dont know details, dont want an expensiuve reinvention of the wheel process.

Ok, anyone ??

good question...about time martin posted up helpful information for free instead of just pushing stuff he sells....so what are you running Martin? and what alignment settings?

other than those guys, there are some very fast gtrs running in the NSW supersprint champs and also a few people (quinn x2, alford, leihmus, jones) running them in tarmac rallies. I think in most cases they are running the standard suspension setup and the big trick has been finding suitable wheels and tyres.

[Martin Donnon]

good question...about time martin posted up helpful information for free instead of just pushing stuff he sells....so

Oh snap...the quandary is this is an R35 forum and we make R35 parts...

Heres some helpful information on our GTR -

Suspension: JRZ Pro

Bars: Stock

Alignment: Stock

It doesnt come much simpler than that

[Duncan]

interesting, the rally guys that have tried aftermarket stuff have all ended up going back to standard suspension for predicability - you have to give the Nissan engineers credit for staying so far ahead.

when you say standard alignment...what is that specifically (camber/toe/castor) or have you never had it aligned?

[TheTunersGroup]

Oh snap...the quandary is this is an R35 forum and we make R35 parts...

Heres some helpful information on our GTR -

Suspension: JRZ Pro

We have a similar quandary in that we have a lot of knowledge about R35 parts but also sell parts for R35's (including JRZ Suspension for R35's).

So often the people on this forum with the knowledge to answer questions like Jeremy's and what works on the R35 are parts suppliers.

It's often hard for us to answer questions about parts like R35 suspension that we have knowledge about without it seeming like an ad, especially in cases like where Jeremy asked ... "dont know details, dont want an expensiuve reinvention of the wheel process" ... so I'll keep our reply factual and general, won't post links to the JRZ Suspension section on our website and will try to make it not read like an ad ...

Jeremy, the most appropriate model of adjustable dampers to suit your car depend on the type of racing you do, if your car is used on track days and on the road or only at the track, how much road driving you do etc, and your budget.

In terms of the old "racing dampers vs street dampers" debate, recent advances in shock design now make possible some adjustable racing shocks that have a very wide range of shock setting adjustability and can be adjusted for a relatively comfortable ride on the road, yet still have enough adjustment for them to be dialled in at the track with settings that work very well at the track without compromising track performance and lap times.

In the past, some people considered the racing dampers vs street dampers argument to be a "choose one or the other" kind of deal, but these days there are some racing shocks that can be valved to give both excellent street performance AND excellent track performance. The key is in how much adjustment range the shocks have. Having a shock with a wide range of adjustability can also allow you to use a range of spring rates and eliminate the worry of having to constantly re-valve the shocks every time you want to increase or decrease your spring rate.

Additionally racing dampers from some manufacturers can be rebuilt with spare parts readily available.

Key to getting the most out of any adjustable shock setup is the time spent in setting the car's suspension up and doing the adjustments, and the skills and experience of the engineer doing the setup. The skill of a suspension engineer can make a big difference to the end result and lap times.

Just like the results from an engine tune are reliant on the skill of the dyno operator or tuner who is tuning the car, the same thing applies to tuning and setting up adjustable suspension.

For JRZ Suspension setup we have an arrangement for our Australian customers with the engineer who did the suspension for the late Peter Brock with his Targa Monaro and Nations Cup Monaro’s, and is also a consultant engineer to Eibach Springs, Ford Racing, Firestone USA, Tenix Defence and Hyundai Motor Company.

Back in the Formula Ford days the car was changed to a very high quality adjustable shock setup, and they made a huge difference to lap times.

In addition, we were able to dial in the car's suspension quickly at different tracks, and after using those adjustable shocks on the Formula Ford, I couldn't imagine running without them.

As always, with suspension you get what you pay for ...

In general terms, while some adjustable racing shocks can be more expensive to purchase initially than some street shocks, when you look at the lap times possible with a set of properly setup and adjusted high quality adjustable racing shocks vs the cost of the shocks, high quality properly set up and adjusted adjustable racing shocks can yield a given lap time improvement at a cost that is lower than achieving a similar lap time improvement via some other car tuning methods, so high quality adjustable shocks can give a high level of "bang for the buck".

And if you use a set of shocks that are rebuildable you can rebuild them when required, instead of having to replace them with new shocks.

- Adam

Edited March 7, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[LSX-438]

after once having the "ultimate track suspension" for another road car... it's was great for the track but hell everywhere else. Do you really want the ultimate? really? That sort of hardware is always going to have serious compromises for a luxurious street car.

[TheTunersGroup]

after once having the "ultimate track suspension" for another road car... it's was great for the track but hell everywhere else. Do you really want the ultimate? really? That sort of hardware is always going to have serious compromises for a luxurious street car.

Hi Duncan,

Suspension technology has come a long way in recent years through a number of innovations.

As I wrote above, the key is in the range of adjustability when it comes to shocks ...

In terms of the old "racing dampers vs street dampers" debate, recent advances in shock design now make possible some adjustable racing shocks that have a very wide range of shock setting adjustability and can be adjusted for a relatively comfortable ride on the road, yet still have enough adjustment for them to be dialled in at the track with settings that work very well at the track without compromising track performance and lap times.

In the past, some people considered the racing dampers vs street dampers argument to be a "choose one or the other" kind of deal, but these days there are some racing shocks that can be valved to give both excellent street performance AND excellent track performance. The key is in how much adjustment range the shocks have. Having a shock with a wide range of adjustability can also allow you to use a range of spring rates and eliminate the worry of having to constantly re-valve the shocks every time you want to increase or decrease your spring rate.

Sure, the spring rate can be a compromise unless you are building an all out track car, and there are differences in noise and harshness between street car bushings vs rosejoints etc, and how much camber you want to run on a street car, so how far you go with a car and the exact combination of parts is always is a decision for the owner of the car.

But in terms of shocks, technology has come a very long way in recent years. Indeed many people overseas who track their cars but also do some road use specifically fit particular racing shocks so that they can get the wide range of adjustability that they need for track use and road use.

Everyone has different preferences in terms what they consider acceptable harshness on the street in terms of bushes and spring rates etc, but it is very doable these days to have a setup that performs very well on the street, with a few adjustments made on track days to adjust the car to it's track settings.

Unless a car is only used on the track, we wouldn't recommend going for the "ultimate" track setup (which might include specific spring rates, camber settings, rosejoints and other parts that might not be ideal on the street).

As I wrote above, the most appropriate suspension to suit a car depends on the type of racing you do, if your car is used on track days and on the road or only at the track, how much road driving you do etc, and your budget.

So I guess what this comes down to is whether someone is looking for "the ultimate track only" setup, or "the best setup for a car that is used on the street and at the track", which are quite different things.

Which of those two are you looking for Jeremy ?

- Adam

Edited March 9, 2010 by TheTunersGroup

[The Law]

Good questions guys.

I am actually still wanting a road driveable and reasonably comfortabloe car so I have some thinking to do and it sounds like the standard setup is a pretty good compromise although for obvious reasons road oriented.

Martin thinks his coilovers do make a substantial difference but does compromise road drivebility.

"I swallowed the spider to catch the fly ....."

[Martin Donnon]

Good questions guys.

Martin thinks his coilovers do make a substantial difference but does compromise road drivebility.

"I swallowed the spider to catch the fly ....."

You arent going to control a 3800lb car with 1100/1200lb/in spring rates and have any semblence of comfort

Look how far the ride versus handling envelope is compromised standard. You want to improve the handling? Sacrifice more ride. No smoke and mirrors, just plain facts