Turbo Whine, Loud! Then Silence? Shitza!

[Vesza]

Hey guys,

I was so excited to pick up my M35 RX Four Stagea and much enjoyed the drive back down to Geelong... Except for a few things.

1. The terrible brake shudder, braking at speeds higher than 80km. No biggie I think to myself, cos every has said it was common and just needs a skim. Ring up Nagoya motors and they said they would pay for it.

2. There seems to be a loud hum which starts around 60km/h, is loudest at 80km/h and much quieter at 100+. I did a bit of searching around on the forums and it seems it could be a wheel bearing, or I'm hoping just the tyres on the car, which from what I can tell are snow tyres (says ICE GUARD on it and has a snow flake symbol). The hum does not change pitch when cornering, and I have jiggled the wheels up on jacks and they seem fine. So fingers crossed, a tyre change will quieten things down.

3. Now this is the big one! All was good driving down to Geelong. Acceleration was strong, but turbo whine quite loud... which I've heard is normal for an M35. Then it started to make a slightly different noise, more of a screech, not real loud, but you could hear it along with the whine in the upper rev range. I started thinking... this can't be good. Sure enough, I went for a drive today to see if I could get a better listen to the screech. I started accelerating and could hear the normal turbo whine, then follwed by the screech... then nothing... the turbo went completely silent. No whine, screech, rattle... nothing! I thought this can't be good! But there should have been a loud rattle and bang or some horrendous screeching noise if the ceramic wheel broke. But I tried accelerating again and the car felt like shit and so did I....

So now it's parked back in the garage. I wouldn't mind hearing some thoughts from other people who have put in a warranty claim or going through turbo dilemas. I have a 3year/5000km warranty, but unfortunately it only covers up to $500 for turbo related problems.

I've read you can get them highflowed and stay ceramic or go steel wheeled. But apparently the steel wheeled is considerably laggier?

[garetb16]

bummer mate,

i have only just bought an M35 too and was worried about this sort of thing.

hope its not too bad. whats the KMS on the clock?

[Bis-e Bee]

Sounds like time for a GCG rebuild.

$500 won't cover much unfortunately, not even a standard flow steel impellor rebuild.

Still worth a shot though, especially when the car has only been recently purchased.

Give the dealer a ring anyway and voice your displeasure, worth a shot.

Good luck!

[Duncan]

I'd be very tempted not to accept the dealer's offer on this one. They (unlike a private seller) are required under fair trading act to make sure the "goods are fit for the purpose they are sold for". the insurance style warranty they included for $500 will not come close to covering the cost of repair (I guess around $2k).

The only option I would accept from the dealer is a replacement turbo, all at their cost. No way can they justify 2 days as being acceptable

[KiwiRS4T]

Yep under consumer legislation in NZ they would be required to fix it (replace the turbo with a good one) or offer you the choice of another similar car or your money back. I am sure there is similar legislation in Aus which no guarantee can void. Rebuild would be around $2000 plus turbo in and out say another $500 so best dealer pays for it.

[Vesza]

bummer mate,

i have only just bought an M35 too and was worried about this sort of thing.

hope its not too bad. whats the KMS on the clock?

Only 57000kms! Well that's what it says on the dash... but unfortunately you just never know with imports. Car looks fairly clean though.

I'd be very tempted not to accept the dealer's offer on this one. They (unlike a private seller) are required under fair trading act to make sure the "goods are fit for the purpose they are sold for". the insurance style warranty they included for $500 will not come close to covering the cost of repair (I guess around $2k).

The only option I would accept from the dealer is a replacement turbo, all at their cost. No way can they justify 2 days as being acceptable

Yeah, I thought all dealers, by law, had to have a minimum of 3months (full) warranty or something along those lines. I will definitely be trying to get them to cover the cost for a standard replacement turbo. If that does end up failing, which I think shouldn't considering the car was only just purchased, then I guess i'll just have to take the $500 plus some of my moolah and go a rebuilt turbo. I've heard it's an absolute pain to remove the turbo, but can be done without removal of engine/trans. Can someone confirm? Or say if it's just easier to remove the engine/trans? I've got access to good tools and a garage and have done 2 engine conversions, so it should be possible for me to do it, just time and effort. BUT... fingers crossed it won't come to that!

[Paramour]

I'd be very tempted not to accept the dealer's offer on this one. They (unlike a private seller) are required under fair trading act to make sure the "goods are fit for the purpose they are sold for". the insurance style warranty they included for $500 will not come close to covering the cost of repair (I guess around $2k).

The only option I would accept from the dealer is a replacement turbo, all at their cost. No way can they justify 2 days as being acceptable

Yes the statutory warranty should still be in effect. here is a specific motor trader requirement. . I suggest you call fair trading and get them to steer you in the right direction. .even if dealer says no take them to fair trading. .you should get a fair result.

[andy65b]

I would think the 3 month statutory warranty should cover you for the removal and rebuild of the turbo. I would be making a bit of a fuss if they try to back away from it.

To get the turbo out it will take a few hours, you will wont to unbolt the tail shaft from the gearbox and loosen the cross member holding the gearbox to get better access but it is still damn tight. (don't forget to loosen the air box before doing this)

As far as I understand the tires should have been replaced with compliance and I am reasonably sure Snow Tires would not be acceptable tires to have on your car for compliance.

Good luck.

Cheers

andy

[Duncan]

oh yes...absolutely right....sevs requires brand new adr approved tyres too.

you have the dealer over a barrel so just hit them hard on this one.

[Vesza]

Thanks a lot for the responses guys! Much appreciated. I feel a lot better and confident now, after reading what you guys have to say. Will definitely be kicking up a storm if they disagree and I will double check the tyres to see if they are compliant.

[Duncan]

if your tyres are not brand new the required complancing has not taken place (for that matter the car also has to be dead stock).

I think if you suggest to the dealer that you know what you are talking about they will back down pretty quick - the new rules are very strict and they can loose their import rights if there is any suggestion that have done the wrong thing.

ie, you have "hand". use it

[mxfly]

if your tyres are not brand new the required complancing has not taken place (for that matter the car also has to be dead stock).

I think if you suggest to the dealer that you know what you are talking about they will back down pretty quick - the new rules are very strict and they can loose their import rights if there is any suggestion that have done the wrong thing.

ie, you have "hand". use it

100% correct there. At best it's a fine and at worst, their license revoked/suspended.

[Daleo]

Everyone seems to be ready for the worst from Nagoya, in my experience Alex is a very upfront guy.

There is very little warning of impending turbo doom on these cars, so I don't believe this is a case of someone flogging a dodgy car. It's annoying for sure, no one likes problems immediately after a substantial outlay, but don't go off half cocked.

Before you assume the worst, give him a call, be calm and explain the situation, I'd be very surprised if you need to threaten to achieve a satisfactory outcome. He does have a good rep with repairs and appears interested in keeping the good reputation he's worked for.

Good luck, Hope you get it sorted quickly. Dale

[Messiah]

Yeah i've had good dealings with nagoya in the past too, mainly D'mitry. He's even given me advice that resulted in him getting a lower profit margin. Like Daleo says, give them a call and play nice to start with.

Give them a chance to handle it properly. If they seem hesitant, mention that replacement is required under the 3 month stat warranty.

If they decide to be a complete **** about it then tell them you'll take the complaint higher up and you'll feel obliged to mention the sub standard compliancing performed while your at it.

But as mentioned above, Nagoya seem to do a pretty good job of dealing fairly with their customers. Give them a chance to continue that.

[zei20l]

just dont go in with guns blazing. talk to them first and IF they dont want anything to do with it, THEN talk to consumer affairs.

chances are they will probably look after you.

[Vesza]

I gave D'mitry a call again today and he seems pretty helpful so far. They will pay for the brake skim and torn right CV boot. Although in my opinion these two things should NOT have even gotten close to passing roadworthy.

In regards to the turbo, first he tried to steer me into the warranty that came with the car, but once I mentioned the 3 month statutory warranty he said he'll talk to the boss (who's been overseas in the time I've been dealing with Nagoya). But I was told to get quotes from two separate mechanics in the mean time.

However, he told me the tyres are fine and totally legal. Yes the tyres look brand new with 100% thread. But after reading more about compliancing I'm am lead to believe that this is irrelevant and they MUST be BRAND NEW AUSTRALIAN tyres. I double checked the tyres and they're Yokohama Ice Guard iG20, and does not have a DOT number, which would mean not ADR compliant? Or is there a different method used to indicate ADR tyres?

So at the moment it's looking ok. But I do agree with what Daleo and Messiah posted about them not knowing when the turbo would go, as it was fine before, then just gave up the ghost. So not their fault at all, just unlucky.

So far I've got very mixed feelings about Nagoya Motors. On the one hand they have been helpful on the phone and playing ball. But I must say I was NOT impressed when I picked up the car!! It was parked under a tree with bird crap all over it, there was a fresh banana peel on the passenger side floor, keyless remote battery was dead, had warped brakes, torn CV boot and non ADR tyres which both shouldn't have passed road worthy. In my opinion that's a pretty poor effort for a dealer...

Edited March 8, 2010 by Vesza

[zei20l]

tyres are cheap, i have an almost brand new set of M35 RS/RX wheels and tyres here if you want them.

just get the important things fixed (turbo, brakes and CV boot) and worry about the small stuff later (tyres)

[Messiah]

Not meaning to be a bastard... but you did get a full mech inspection before purchasing didnt you??

[Vesza]

Not meaning to be a bastard... but you did get a full mech inspection before purchasing didnt you??

Nope, I didn't bother this time because I was going through a dealer. They run a business and are responsible for selling you a good product which has been complied and roadworthied properly. Where as when I buy from a private seller I always get a mechanical check because there is no warranty what so ever and they are not liable for anything. Again, turbo dieing is not their fault, but brakes, tyres and CV boot should have been checked by them.

tyres are cheap, i have an almost brand new set of M35 RS/RX wheels and tyres here if you want them.

just get the important things fixed (turbo, brakes and CV boot) and worry about the small stuff later (tyres)

Yeah true, tyres are the least of my problems at the moment and I will get that sorted after. However it's not really the point and I would estimate it to be around $80 for a cheap tyre (215/55/R17) so at best $320. I've also heard snow tyres are not suited for high speed (highway) use, on hot days. Apparently the softer compound turns to mush and is unsafe.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Vesza

[mxfly]

Snow tyres are DEFINITELY not safe on hotter weather conditions. Not only does the tread blocks deform, but they can completely tear apart as well. I've seen it before. Another point to note as well. Snow tyres on cars can mean they are from a snow region. And generally (although not all cases) these cars will have some form of corrosion underneath.