Anti-lock Brakes

[Jax]

Probably silly question, but are the brakes on all models R32 onwards Anti-Lock Systems?

[Jax]

Yes ? No ? Maybe ?------ Anyone ?

[Mister25t]

No, it is a factory option. Not all of them have it.

[Jax]

No, it is a factory option. Not all of them have it.

Thanks. Didn't expect it to be an option. Next Question then: what do I look for to identify whether it's fitted or not? Presume can be identified in engine bay?

[bubba]

A bigass solenoid unit with multiple hard brake lines going to it, sitting in the back passenger corner of the engine bay.

[Jax]

A bigass solenoid unit with multiple hard brake lines going to it, sitting in the back passenger corner of the engine bay.

Thanks for that. Thank christ I haven't got it. Sick of cars doing for me what I should be able to do for myself. ( like these " runaway " cars lately) They can only run away with their driver, because they were made to make it 'easier' for the driver, by taking over some of his functions. Then the computer goes mad, and your'e like a bird in a cage, thrown over a cliff.

If the throttle went wide open suddenly on a car made in, say, 1960 , you could just stand on the brakes. That would stop it, OR, turn off the ignition ( no steering lock ), OR knock it out of gear.

Nice to know that to-days cars are safer than those 40 years ago.

[cheegar]

Whats wrong with ABS?

From what i understand it's there to help you from braking to hard and locking up causing your braking to become a lot less controlled and dangerous.

[Jax]

Whats wrong with ABS?

From what i understand it's there to help you from braking to hard and locking up causing your braking to become a lot less controlled and dangerous.

Yes, your'e right. That's what it's for. Like I said, something you should learn to do for yourself. It uses a lot more components - therefore more things to go wrong. It doesn't always improve braking. Even the manufacturers warn that in some instances it might take longer to stop. With all hi-tec devices to make the drivers job 'easier', by their very nature they remove some control from the driver at the same time. NOTHING, that is, NOTHING can equal a person with making split-second changes of decisions or actions, as circumstances change.

The several instances, here and overseas recently, of cars running away, at full throttle, with their driver trapped inside, having the steering only remaining under driver control, is what we should expect more of, as we 'progress' to-wards cars that automatically have their speed controlled from wires in road surface, or by sattelite. Devices to stop you driving close to, or colliding with, the rear of another vehicle, etc., and prob more developement of the present 'stability control' rubbish.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Jax

[The Bogan]

I love ABS on the street AND when I track my car, no big lockups killing my good tyres, mashing the pedal as hard as I can when braking knowing I can still steer under brakes if I need to.

For me there are more PROs than CONs.

[Nic_A31]

For somebody who had to ask how to identify ABS, you seem to know alot about it and its apparent flaws.

guess what! ABS can be disabled by just pulling out a fuse.

[The Bogan]

For somebody who had to ask how to identify ABS, you seem to know alot about it and its apparent flaws.

guess what! ABS can be disabled by just pulling out a fuse.

You need to do that for J turns, LOL

[MBS206]

Yes, your'e right. That's what it's for. Like I said, something you should learn to do for yourself. It uses a lot more components - therefore more things to go wrong. It doesn't always improve braking. Even the manufacturers warn that in some instances it might take longer to stop. With all hi-tec devices to make the drivers job 'easier', by their very nature they remove some control from the driver at the same time. NOTHING, that is, NOTHING can equal a person with making split-second changes of decisions or actions, as circumstances change.

The several instances, here and overseas recently, of cars running away, at full throttle, with their driver trapped inside, having the steering only remaining under driver control, is what we should expect more of, as we 'progress' to-wards cars that automatically have their speed controlled from wires in road surface, or by sattelite. Devices to stop you driving close to, or colliding with, the rear of another vehicle, etc., and prob more developement of the present 'stability control' rubbish.

It's actually been proven the only instance of which ABS will take longer to stop is on a loose surface, such as dirt or gravel.

Why? Because in that circumstance the quickest way to stop a vehicle is to lock the wheels, and force them to "plow" the dirt creating a build up infront of the tyres which is more effective at slowing them down.

PS: Jax, drive down the street, have a kid unexpectedly run out in front of you, and tell me you can stop your car without locking a tyre.

Whilst driving around a race track, you expect the tyres to lock, so you can quickly modulate the brakes to free them... Unfortunately, after 8 hours of work, and getting the shits with the daily traffic, you're mind is so far "off track" that when something unexpected happens, you do freeze, and faulter...

ABS is good on the street.

[Jax]

PS: Jax, drive down the street, have a kid unexpectedly run out in front of you, and tell me you can stop your car without locking a tyre.

Yes I can.

Whilst driving around a race track, you expect the tyres to lock, so you can quickly modulate the brakes to free them...

That's true - been around a few.

Unfortunately, after 8 hours of work, and getting the shits with the daily traffic, you're mind is so far "off track" that when something unexpected happens, you do freeze, and faulter...

Speak for yourself. The more things that are done for you, and the more the fact that you are a" machine operator" in charge of a piece of machinery is disguised as a lounge room on wheels, the less attention you pay. ( It's human nature )

Try driving home one day using the handbrake only, and see if your mind drifts 'off track." You'd be surprised at the level of awareness you are able to maintain, without effort - and the speed of your reactions.

Having said all that, of course for the average ( and below average ) driver, ABS is good overall. I'm saying that the more automatic that anything ( or everything) is made, the more components it has, then the more likely it is to fail.

I'm also saying that the more the drivers functions are taken over - partly or fully - the more relaxed, and less aware the driver becomes, and that can mean less safe. ABS is only the little brother of things like Cruise Control, Electronic Stability Control, or External Vehicle Speed Control systems currently being developed, where the speed of your vehicle can be controlled or limited by external regulatory authorities, by GPS or 'wire in road" systems, AND lots more. For those who want to be just a passenger in their own car, fine. I prefer to do it all myself. I don't expect lots of people to agree with me. There aren't many Jonathon Livingstone Seagulls in the world. ( Look it up on Google.) Small quote from:- "Most gulls don’t bother to learn more than the simplest facts of flight – how to get from shore to food and back again. For most gulls, it is not flying that matters, but eating."

[MBS206]

Having said all that, of course for the average ( and below average ) driver, ABS is good overall. I'm saying that the more automatic that anything ( or everything) is made, the more components it has, then the more likely it is to fail.

I'm also saying that the more the drivers functions are taken over - partly or fully - the more relaxed, and less aware the driver becomes, and that can mean less safe. ABS is only the little brother of things like Cruise Control, Electronic Stability Control, or External Vehicle Speed Control systems currently being developed, where the speed of your vehicle can be controlled or limited by external regulatory authorities, by GPS or 'wire in road" systems, AND lots more. For those who want to be just a passenger in their own car, fine. I prefer to do it all myself. I don't expect lots of people to agree with me. There aren't many Jonathon Livingstone Seagulls in the world. ( Look it up on Google.) Small quote from:- "Most gulls don’t bother to learn more than the simplest facts of flight – how to get from shore to food and back again. For most gulls, it is not flying that matters, but eating."

If you turn cruise control on, and you pay less attention, you're a moron.

Cruise control allows you to pay more attention to other things rather then checking the speedo every 0.5 seconds, such as blind spots, mirrors, sides of the road, etc. Cruise you have to be very alert with, if a light turns red up ahead, you have to be aware and cancel the cruise to coast to the light...

Electronic Stability control, well this here little gadget is much like traction control and ABS, they really only kick in once the dunder clump behind the wheel has f**ked up.

ABS kicks in ONCE a tyre locks up.

ESC kicks in (Proper stability control, not the shit in the EVOs and GTR etc) once you've lost control.

Traction Control kicks in once you've started wheel spinning (Or in some cases some cars programmed to know 100% throttle in 1st gear WILL equal wheel spin) so it's only kicking in, AFTER the dunderclump has f**ked up.

The funny part, when ABS kicks in on most cars, because people aren't taught about it, they actually do the worst thing ever... That is, remove the foot from the pedal... Wrong action, you should push it harder.

The same as ESC, when it kicks in, you shouldn't be trying to play with throttle and opposite lock, as the car will straighten itself out. (We found this out in a mates VE... dial in the oppy lock, catch the slide, ESC kicks in and you instantly head for the gutter) turn the corner though, f**k it up, make it slide and enter typical peoples "freeze" mentality, and the car exited the corner as if nothing ever happened.

External Vehicle Speed Control is purely being bought about because of a minority of f**k tards, who generally claim "I don't need my car to do shit for me" push it beyond the limits, f**k it all up, and kill people.

If you drive a car normally, with in it's limits (Obviously some of these devices are a hinderance on the RACE TRACK!) then traction control, stability control, and ABS should NEVER come into effect. They should be sitting in the back ground go "oooo la-de-da, would you like a cup of tea Mr Driver?"

Stop bitching, you have full control of your vehicle, these control systems have proven to make cars safer on the road.

Oh, and for the matter of what happened with my mates VE, the people who are quick enough to catch a slide are also quick enough to get the oppy lock OFF when the ESC does kick in.

[some_cs_student]

Having said all that, of course for the average ( and below average ) driver, ABS is good overall. I'm saying that the more automatic that anything ( or everything) is made, the more components it has, then the more likely it is to fail.

I'm also saying that the more the drivers functions are taken over - partly or fully - the more relaxed, and less aware the driver becomes, and that can mean less safe. ABS is only the little brother of things like Cruise Control, Electronic Stability Control, or External Vehicle Speed Control systems currently being developed, where the speed of your vehicle can be controlled or limited by external regulatory authorities, by GPS or 'wire in road" systems, AND lots more. For those who want to be just a passenger in their own car, fine. I prefer to do it all myself. I don't expect lots of people to agree with me. There aren't many Jonathon Livingstone Seagulls in the world. ( Look it up on Google.) Small quote from:- "Most gulls don’t bother to learn more than the simplest facts of flight – how to get from shore to food and back again. For most gulls, it is not flying that matters, but eating."

Have you ever done an advanced driving course?

ABS is a great safety invention, yes the driver should have as much control as possible, and it might be dangerous if a driver goes from an ABS car to a non-ABS car without realising it.

However, in wet weather, you have no chance against of doing better than any decent ABS system.

[The Bogan]

Doing the ABS crash avoidance senario with Ian Luffs Drive to Survive was big fun, it was fun watching non ABS cars trying to avoid the cones on a wet road at a 100kph crash senario. LOL at cars skiding staight through the cones but the ABS cars were braking hard AND turning to avoid hitting the cones. The cones were set up to represent a stopped car just over a hill, All Abs missed the cones, All but 1 non ABS cars hit them, the one that missed was a girl in a VF Valiant 4 door ((she rocked hard) gotta love rock n roll chicks)