Need Fuel Pump Help

[shakotan-cefiro]

hi guys

has anyone ran an inline fuel pump as well as the stock intank fuel pump ?

can i splice it into the intank fuel pump wiring ?

will using the rb20det fuelpump as a primer cause any pressure issues ?

do i need a surge tank ?

should i run a filter in between pumps?

please if you have any other suggestions or comments i want to be sure about this before i start

thankyou

B

[smokem31]

I am running an 044, from surge tank to injector rail, and my stock pump as a draw pump to surge tank. I tried to figure out how to run 044 off same wiring as stock, but couldn't get it to work, I think due to negative earth.... The only filter I am running is to the 044.

I wouldn't be running it inline with out a surge tank...

[shakotan-cefiro]

I am running an 044, from surge tank to injector rail, and my stock pump as a draw pump to surge tank. I tried to figure out how to run 044 off same wiring as stock, but couldn't get it to work, I think due to negative earth.... The only filter I am running is to the 044.

I wouldn't be running it inline with out a surge tank...

cool thanks for speedy reply smokem

i will use the surge tank what size are you using will 1.5 litre be sufficent ?

and i will definately use rb20 pump to surge the surge tank

has anyone one else been able to wire a second fuel pump to the existing wiring ?

[smokem31]

mine is 3 litres.... but i thinks its overkill.... i got a habit of doing that though!

1.5 should be fine if your restricted in space.

no dramas buddy

[XRATED]

The existing wiring and fuel pump controller is not big enough to handle the load from an 044 pump.... Run a decent size wire from the battery (with a fuse near the battery) to the 044, through a relay. Swith the realay using the power feed to the origional pump.

1 wire, 1 realy... easy.

[shakotan-cefiro]

The existing wiring and fuel pump controller is not big enough to handle the load from an 044 pump.... Run a decent size wire from the battery (with a fuse near the battery) to the 044, through a relay. Swith the realay using the power feed to the origional pump.

1 wire, 1 realy... easy.

thankyou xrated i just built my rb30 motor but im a real dumbass when it comes to efi wiring

heaps sorry to be annoying but i have some stupid questions:

what gauge wire would u recomend /how thick?

any idea what colour wire is the power feed for existing intank pump?

what type of relay should i use?

do you have any idea on what size fuse to run ?

i know it sounds stupid but any help would be greatly appreciated

[James_03]

thankyou xrated i just built my rb30 motor but im a real dumbass when it comes to efi wiring

heaps sorry to be annoying but i have some stupid questions:

what gauge wire would u recomend /how thick?

any idea what colour wire is the power feed for existing intank pump?

what type of relay should i use?

do you have any idea on what size fuse to run ?

i know it sounds stupid but any help would be greatly appreciated

I would personally pull the standard pump out, then just run the 044 in-tank. Then you use the standard pump wiring to trigger your relay. To trigger the relay, earth one side to the boot of the car, make sure it's a good ground. Then using a mulitmeter find the positive wire for the standard pump and use this as the relay trigger. Then Use 12 gauge wire and run it from the negative terminal of the 044 directly back to the battery, then run the postive from the 044 to the relay, then out of the relay via a 20 amp inline fuse back to the positive side of the battery.

If you have a spare Nissan relay lying around just use that. Otherwise you can pick-up 12v relays from Dicksmith that will still work.

If your not keen on running the 044 intank, then whatever you do, I wouldn't recommend the standard pump as a lift.

Sell 044 and buy a 023, replace standard pump and re-wire with direct current. Relay's will often have a diagram on top to show how they are wired.

Edited March 25, 2010 by James_03

[XRATED]

thankyou xrated i just built my rb30 motor but im a real dumbass when it comes to efi wiring

heaps sorry to be annoying but i have some stupid questions:

what gauge wire would u recomend /how thick?

any idea what colour wire is the power feed for existing intank pump?

what type of relay should i use?

do you have any idea on what size fuse to run ?

i know it sounds stupid but any help would be greatly appreciated

5m x 30A (over estimate) 12VDC should be around 10 or 12 guage.

Sorry, I havn't looked at my car in 4 years... Just get somone to switch the ignition on and test each wire with a multi meter. When you switch the ignition on the fuel pump will start, then stop when it comes up to pressure.... when you start the car, the pump will start again, but only at low voltage.

Use a good quality 30A automotive relay.

Run a 30A fuse close to the battery.

Once you have it all running, borrow a multimeter with an amp clip. Test the Amperage draw on the main supply wire at pump start and idle when its hot. What ever the Amperage is, add 20% and that's what the fuse should be.

Your gts-t pump is easily going to be able fill the surge tank... all pumps will flow more with less pressure.

The 044 in my GTR supported over 400rwkw.

[shakotan-cefiro]

If you have a spare Nissan relay lying around just use that. Otherwise you can pick-up 12v relays from Dicksmith that will still work.

If your not keen on running the 044 intank, then whatever you do, I wouldn't recommend the standard pump as a lift.

Sell 044 and buy a 023, replace standard pump and re-wire with direct current. Relay's will often have a diagram on top to show how they are wired.

ok this has put a spanner in the works i have the 044 (which cannot be used in tank the bosch intank pump is 040)

i have a 1.5litre surge tank and all fittings +inline race filter

and malapassi rising rate reg and 550cc injectors

why shouldnt i use the rb20 as the lifter pump ?

what pump do u think i should use as a intank lifter pump and why?

i want to use the parts i have . . .

has anyone had any probs with this setup as it has been recomended by a fair few ppl

[James_03]

ok this has put a spanner in the works i have the 044 (which cannot be used in tank the bosch intank pump is 040)

i have a 1.5litre surge tank and all fittings +inline race filter

and malapassi rising rate reg and 550cc injectors

why shouldnt i use the rb20 as the lifter pump ?

what pump do u think i should use as a intank lifter pump and why?

i want to use the parts i have . . .

has anyone had any probs with this setup as it has been recomended by a fair few ppl

You can use the 044 in-tank, plenty of people have done it including myself, you just re-use the sock off the old standard pump. The reason why I personally woulnd't use the standard pump as a lift, is because your building a fuel system that relies soley on the ability of a 20 year old standard part to continue working. By all means use the standard pump as a lift, I just think it's a whole lot of hassle for no real gain.

My mate had the exact same setup in his s15, fuel smell in the cabin, running extra efi line, mounting the can, all to find out that he had major surge problems using the standard s15 pump as a lift. He then went a Nismo in-tank and has been happy ever since.

Are you doing any track work? If no and it's a streeter, than just a good in-tank will be fine. Anyway that's my 2c.

[shakotan-cefiro]

You can use the 044 in-tank, plenty of people have done it including myself, you just re-use the sock off the old standard pump. The reason why I personally woulnd't use the standard pump as a lift, is because your building a fuel system that relies soley on the ability of a 20 year old standard part to continue working. By all means use the standard pump as a lift, I just think it's a whole lot of hassle for no real gain.

My mate had the exact same setup in his s15, fuel smell in the cabin, running extra efi line, mounting the can, all to find out that he had major surge problems using the standard s15 pump as a lift. He then went a Nismo in-tank and has been happy ever since.

Are you doing any track work? If no and it's a streeter, than just a good in-tank will be fine. Anyway that's my 2c.

thanks for explaining

so if i just use the 044 in tank can i still run the surge tank ?

im building a rb30et a31 cefiro drift car and had some problems with the fuel slapping from side to side in my r31 drift car and the pump didnt like it or so i was told by a efi specialist ! is this true ?

am i worrying about something i dont need to i know carby fed cars can have this problem

iam aiming for 300kw and after all the cash ive spent on the engine i dont want it leaning out at high rpm

Edited March 25, 2010 by shakotan-cefiro

[Scradly]

If you are worried about fuel surge and are using this car mainly for drift then a surge tank would be highly recommended.

You need to buy a high volume low pressure internal pump and then run an external 044 from surge tank to fuel rail.

It may cost a bit more to do it this way, but the fuel system is one thing you should never do on the cheaper side.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Scradly

[shakotan-cefiro]

If you are worried about fuel surge and are using this car mainly for drift then a surge tank would be highly recommended.

You need to buy a high volume low pressure internal pump and then run an external 044 from surge tank to fuel rail.

It may cost a bit more to do it this way, but the fuel system is one thing you should never do on the cheaper side.

ok thats what i thought what pump would you suggest i put in the tank?

[XRATED]

I would highly recomend using a surge tank if it's a drift car! Unless the tank is chockers all the time, the fuel will slosh around in the tank causing your pump to momentarily suck air instead of fuel... not good for your engine, as it will cause a very fast lean out...

Yes, you do need to worry about it...

I would try not to use the malpassi reg... they're not terribly reliable.

You don't need to run a new fuel line either. The standard line is fine to at least 350rwkw.

The gts-t pump will flow plenty of fuel to the surge tank... If you find that (because it's old/broken) it can keep the surge tank full then replace it with a small drop in replacment or good condition GTR pump.

A pump's flow volume will go up as the pressure it's pushing against goes down. There should not be too much pressure in the surge tank (as it has an overflow back to the tank at the top).

I used my standard GTR pump as a lift pump and the 044 as the high pressure pump. I also left the GTR fuel pump voltage controller as standard, so it will slow the intank pump down at low speed (there is no point heating the fuel up by pumping it constantly at full flow).

I'll ty and dig up a pic

Justin

[shakotan-cefiro]

I would highly recomend using a surge tank if it's a drift car! Unless the tank is chockers all the time, the fuel will slosh around in the tank causing your pump to momentarily suck air instead of fuel... not good for your engine, as it will cause a very fast lean out...

Yes, you do need to worry about it...

I would try not to use the malpassi reg... they're not terribly reliable.

You don't need to run a new fuel line either. The standard line is fine to at least 350rwkw.

The gts-t pump will flow plenty of fuel to the surge tank... If you find that (because it's old/broken) it can keep the surge tank full then replace it with a small drop in replacment or good condition GTR pump.

A pump's flow volume will go up as the pressure it's pushing against goes down. There should not be too much pressure in the surge tank (as it has an overflow back to the tank at the top).

I used my standard GTR pump as a lift pump and the 044 as the high pressure pump. I also left the GTR fuel pump voltage controller as standard, so it will slow the intank pump down at low speed (there is no point heating the fuel up by pumping it constantly at full flow).

I'll ty and dig up a pic

Justin

ok its decided rb20 pump - surge tank - filter - 044 then rising malpassi rate reg or i also have a utr fuel reg with pressure gauge

my only issue is the wiring if i use the relay and wire the 044

as discribed will it being going full bore the whole time?

[Scradly]

You can use the standard pump, but you will then need to run the rail return line into the surge tank. This fuel is hot and can boil in the surge tank thus creating problems.

If you buy a lift pump that flows more than the 044 you can run the return line back to the main fuel tank .

[shakotan-cefiro]

You can use the standard pump, but you will then need to run the rail return line into the surge tank. This fuel is hot and can boil in the surge tank thus creating problems.

If you buy a lift pump that flows more than the 044 you can run the return line back to the main fuel tank .

woah ive heard of many serious fuel atomising issues doing it this way and im not so keen to run that gaunlet maybe il just give up on the rb20 pump . . .

how about this :

my bro has a new bosch 040 i could get my hands on

the 040 runs 300lph at 94 psi

the 044 runs 300lph at 72.5 psi

if i install that and set it up as follows:

040 -> surge tank -> filter -> 044 -> fuel reg -> rail ->return line to main tank

what do you think?

will this be safe and effective?

[Scradly]

Yeah run that system but dont use the 040 intank. Buy a low pressure high volume pump which is desgined for you want it for.

the 040 is not designed as a lift pump. You can still use it but its not ideal.

Somthing like this should do the trick . Im not sure of the specs but if you conatct them you will find out.

http://www.efihardware.com/products/265/li...bmersible-800HP

[shakotan-cefiro]

sweet..... thanks scradly

i will purchase it on payday

thanks everyone for your help will post pics when i get round to installing the setup

[XRATED]

Here's a good little pick for plumbing as stolen from another thread: