Dedicated Track Cars

[Jezza-gtR]

How is a R31 Aus delivered not driving comfort and unreliable?

+1

My daily is a Silhouette, and I drift it, only ''power'' mods are GTS2 extractors, and 98ron fuel, the car is 20 years old and the only thing that has gone is the clutch. Handling mods are the way to go to learn. Don't need power to have fun

Although the super stiff suspension is annoying in the city haha, just have fun, its the best way.

[SABBAi]

I had a daily that I tracked. The biggest issue I had was not keeping this phrase in the back of my mind...

"You have to drive it home stupid"

Keep that in the back of your mind as you're flatshifting off the limiter with your inexpensive but so-hella-cool side pipe and blow the headgasket 3 hours from home....

It took me a day to get it home again. I left my car in Sheparton and drove back to Melb with the rest of the crew, got my oldmans car hired a trailer and drove back. Had a blow out on the rental trailer on the way back up there, with a wheel brace that didn't fit, Spent an hour battling to get the car on the trailer, had one of my straps snap that was holding the car in place and almost ended up with the car through the back window of the car! I got back home after midnight.

So moral of this story is that if you track your daily, don't treat it like a track only car or something you've just stolen. Treat it will respect and don't go overboard on the mods and you will not have any issues. Decent pads, fluid, regular servicing, etc is enough to get you out there without breaking the bank and your car.

[Leif]

I would say take your car out now. Check your pads, bleed your brake, do an oil change and go. Worst case you'll find the limits of your brakes and tyres.

Don't spend 2k on brakes, don't buy semis, just enter an open day and drive it.

Totally agree.

I think you should consider taking your Supra to a few track days. With the basic prep Dave's mentioned above, you'll be ready to go. The brakes might get a little tired by the end of a session, but don't worry about it! Just drive within the limits of yourself and the car and you'll have fun. My first car was an NA S13, and it went to the track with nothing more than what Dave's mentioned above. It was great.

From a financial point of view, there's no doubt that tracking your street car will be cheaper than having a daily and a track car. If you have a mechanical failure at the track and need a $500 tow for the 3hr trip home, you're still way in front of where you'd be if you owned two cars (and trailer). As for crashing, well that's expensive in a track car or a road car. I still track my street car and whilst it's never going to set the timsheets on fire, I don't have to store/hire a trailer, maintain 2 cars, and can still have fun on the twisties.

S14's are incredibly good value nowdays as well imo. A series 2 for 9-10K seems like a steal for how much car you get.

[phunky_monkey]

It's a tough choice, with both options having their merits and detractors... I've been in the same situation as Scott ( SABBAi ) and driven my car 3 hours home from Shepparton with my external wastegate held onto my manifold with a piece of coathanger, and have driven home from Morwell with no first gear or clutch. Both were not fun! That is the danger of having a daily as a track car, let alone the possibility of binning it completely, but the positives are that it's cheaper, much easier to get around, you'll get a heap more use out of it and won't be tempted to do silly things with it as you know you need to drive it on the street.

Having a dedicated track car lets you go wild on it as no street compromises are required which is great. Downside is cost, storage space, and getting the thing from A-B. When I need to go get a wheel alignment it becomes a 3 hour ordeal instead of an hour in a street registered car. It can be a massive pain in the arse, and I sometimes think I should've kept rego on the car for reasons such as this. But I also like knowing that when I go to the track and have an issue with it I can just put it on the trailer, park it and worry about it when I get the time/inclination.

As for your choice of car I think an S14 is excellent if you do decide to go that way. Quick, reliable, lots of parts around and cheap enough.

Disclaimer: I have driven my car a total of about 45 minutes in 3.5 years so don't listen to me

[hrd-hr30]

Yeah I've currently got Kumhos on the car.

How much did your brake set up cost? I've got 2/1 pot brakes too, and my mechanic is claiming to survive a track like Sandown I need Endless Green and Red pads and slotted rotors. Reckons it'll cost $1700 all up.

I've heard A1RM are good bang for you buck, but my mechanics claims they tend to crack when going hot, cold, hot at the track.

My twin turbo supra with the same small 2/1 brake setup never needed slotted rotors, endless pads or anything like that. QR is reknowned for being hard on brakes, and both times I went there witht he Supra was in QLD summer heat - well over 30deg. If your NA Supra can't manage a track day on the same brakes there is something very very wrong. Just flush your brake fluid, maybe buy a set of Lucas front pads and get out there.

[Marlin]

^^^^^ Listen to Harry. He knows.

[unique1]

the comment on if you plan on driving like you stole it and expect it to drive home is soo true. I even trailered my registered car to the drags, etc for a while due to possible breakages from beating the shite out of it and not worry about trying to get it home with a busted gearbox/clutch/tailshaft/etc. The one time i didnt trailer it i busted 3rd gear and was making some horrible grinding noises when running i had to try and find a trailer and get it all the way home and it was the last time i do any trackwork without a trailer in waiting.

Ive gone track car option myself, i couldnt stand the compromises trying to keep it suitable for road use. I also have a nice daily driver as going hard on the roads in a powerful car is just too risky these days anyway with all the new laws. Keep the hard driving for the track

Edited March 31, 2010 by unique1

[No Crust Racing]

By this point Kez you must have noticed that there are some very clear pros and cons to both sides of the equation.

I've done both and for me and what I want from track days and the car, a dedicated car was a better choice.

When I had the GTST and then the GT-R (both streeters) the compromise of needing the car for work (and I actually used my car for work not just getting to and from work) meant I had to make big compromises in setup, mods, legality, safety, noise etc. Don't get me wrong, I loved having them both as daily drivers but the cost of maintenance and the above compromises made me move on. I was also a bit of a knob and lost a stack of points on my license and paid a few bucks in fines, that's another topic though, my point is just that there was more temptation for me, you might be more mature than I was at that age, it wouldn't be hard

I opted for a pretty cheap track car and a reasonable daily. So the BA makes a great work car and tows the S13 with ease and the S13 can be driven as hard as I want (though I tend to be cautious "most" of the time - broken stuff costs $$) and I don't have to worry about getting it home or getting to work on Monday. I also don't have issues if parts are out of stock, take ages to ship or I need to save funds before I can fix something. It just sits there and gets started from time to time.

Further more, My particular track car has remained street reg'd, no way is it legal but I can get away with driving to and from workshops as required which avoids the issue Dane was mentioning.This is the case because I bought a stockish reg'd car and built it up myself, which is heaps more expensive I might add. You can do that too living in Vic where we don't need yearly RWC.

Buying a dedicated and built un-reg'd S13 or 14 is great value, but I bought my car to build and learn myself and I also love being able to drive it around the block or to a workshop as required - I just ditch the semis and big spoiler.

In the end, you have to work out what is best for your current situation and financial capabilities. Keeping your supra, doing some basic work and having some fun at the track is the cheapest way - big accidents and part failure aside - but it's also a compromise on performance the whole "drive it home/to work" issue. That said you will still learn a heap in a Supra at the track without big power. Even driving my BA around has taught me a few things because it's so big and heavy.

It's important to know what you can afford to spend before you can make a clear decision, it's also important to have some idea of what you want from your track adventures. Some guys are out just for the fun of it and some are out to be a bit more competitive, get times/drift better, and develope the car. Both are valid reasons to be at the track but each can be achevied in different ways.

Good luck

[warps]

As Harry (and others) have said, best thing to do is have a go at a track day in your current car. This will give you a feel for track days and let you decide whether it's even your thing. I did one supersprint at Amaroo way back when, and it was fun but not enough so for me to get into it big time. Instead, I bought a gravel car and concentrated on playing in the dirt. I've done a few track days since, and it's always been a registered road car. The thought has always been in the back of my mind that I can't afford to break it, but it never has had a big effect n my driving or enjoyment.

Once you've done a couple of track days, you can decide whether you want to go to the commitment of a dedicated track car, or at the very least, you'll work out what NEEDS upgrading on the Supra (note I use the word need instead of want as the two are very often confused if you spend enough time readong car forums).

Lastly, whatever you do - have fun. If you're not enjoying it, don't even bother doing it. Even the best drivers in the country are just random nobodies who happen to have good lap times, and possibly a fan base. Doesn't make you a better person so don't expect to become an overnight hero just because you can beat a random lap time.

[No Crust Racing]

Even the best drivers in the country are just random nobodies who happen to have good lap times, and possibly a fan base. Doesn't make you a better person so don't expect to become an overnight hero just because you can beat a random lap time.

Love it.

[Roy]

Never track your daily, because if it breaks then you won't be able to get around. If you do get a dedicated track car, make sure you have space to store a trailer, and a daily driver that's capable of pulling a full car trailer and car and spares.

... if your daily is an NA std Supra and in good condition, its highly unlikely you will brake anything. If it does, then you probably get 4 tows and 1 weeks worth of hire car (public transport) before the cost of the not having the second car gets called into question

The real problem, is dont track any car unless you have some funds set aside to fix something that may go bank

[KezR33]

Alright guys, you've convinced me. I'll track the Supra a bit, see if I enjoy it and learn the basics of racing.

My main concern was the brakes not for improved lap times on anything, but for safety reason.

Where would be a good place to start? There' a Sandown event on the supraforums coming up, but what I've heard about Sandown is its power orientated course (which is why the Supra's probably love it). I don't know what brake fade feels like, I've just heard horror stories. I'd rather learn about brake fade on a course like Winton which doesn't have high speed straights and walls waiting at the end.

Thanks guys.

Just another question while I'm here, has anyone bought a track car with a mate? I assume you go 50/50 on purchase and maintenance, but what happens if one person bins it? Do they repay you or is it just expected it might happen and you cope the loss?

[nismoman]

All good advice from everyone.

I agree with taking the NA Supra out to some track days with fresh fluid, pads, oil etc. and have some fun. Keep doing that until you find you want more.

If you're already at the point of wanting more, and by that I mean, going faster, being safer with cage/harness, serious mods that arent' road legal etc. Then I say start looking for a nice S13, S14 or R32 and start building it the way you want it.

[nismoman]

Alright guys, you've convinced me. I'll track the Supra a bit, see if I enjoy it and learn the basics of racing.

My main concern was the brakes not for improved lap times on anything, but for safety reason.

Where would be a good place to start? There' a Sandown event on the supraforums coming up, but what I've heard about Sandown is its power orientated course (which is why the Supra's probably love it). I don't know what brake fade feels like, I've just heard horror stories. I'd rather learn about brake fade on a course like Winton which doesn't have high speed straights and walls waiting at the end.

Thanks guys.

Just another question while I'm here, has anyone bought a track car with a mate? I assume you go 50/50 on purchase and maintenance, but what happens if one person bins it? Do they repay you or is it just expected it might happen and you cope the loss?

Brake fade feels like the pedal turns to mush. It sinks further to the floor and the car doesn't pull up as good. A good tip for any person hitting the track is to always tap the brake pedal before you need to stand on them into the braking zone. Just to be sure you have some brakes. It's a tip a racer told me about and it can save your life.

My advice about sharing a track with a mate? Don't do it. It will end in tears. Even if you don't bin it, it can lead to arguments about who got more laps, who flat spotted the tyres, who wore out the brakes more. It can lead to so many problems and I guarantee they won't be your mate after it.

[warps]

I don't know what brake fade feels like, I've just heard horror stories. I'd rather learn about brake fade on a course like Winton which doesn't have high speed straights and walls waiting at the end.

Try and resist the urge to drive it hard in the first few laps, and work your way up to speed - even if it takes you a few sessions. You'll probably be braking too early to start with, so aim to brake early and take corners smoothly, working on your lines as you gain confidence in the car. In fact, for your first outing, aim to drive at a comfortable road speed and work your way up from there.

Once you start getting a feel for what the car's doing, you can start taking the corners a bit faster and braking a bit later. Don't worry if you're getting passed by 5 cars each lap - trying to keep up with them will only end in tears.

After a couple of sessions, you should start getting a good feel for where the limits are, and start going deeper under braking, and trying to carry more speed through corners. Remember, braking early and having a smooth line through the corner will usually be faster than trying tp be the last of the great late brakers and having a horrible corner exit. Speed generally comes from how fast you can exit a corner, not how fast you can enter a corner.

Doing this will give you plenty of warning of what the car's doing, and you should get a feel if the brakes are starting to fade. This will usually be a combination of needing more pedal effort, and more pedal travel to get similar (or worse) braking. The brakes shouldn't just completely fail on you though fade.

As far as sharing 50/50 in a car - it can work well (I've seen a few people do it). You'd just have to have an agreement that whoever bins it or breaks it has to pay for the repai or buy the other party out (or something llike that). Bank on sharing the maintenance costs equally, or pro-rata on the number of laps you do, or something like that. If a tired engine lets go in a session, you need to understand that it was on its way out, and the driver shouldn't have to bear the full cost.

Just a couple of brain dump ideas.

[Duncan]

I think its simple. If you have the money and are comitted you should definately go the seperate track car.

If you don't have much to spend on track stuff (think $10k per year) take whatever car you have to the track. BUT DON'T MODIFY IT! or at least just do brakes and suspension....don't spend a cent on making more power....

[JimmyRickard]

Or buy a Go-Kart.

[hrd-hr30]

I think its simple. If you have the money and are comitted you should definately go the seperate track car.

If you don't have much to spend on track stuff (think $10k per year) take whatever car you have to the track. BUT DON'T MODIFY IT! or at least just do brakes and suspension....don't spend a cent on making more power....

$10K per year!!! I'm well and truly in the "don't have much to spend on track stuff" category!

[75coupe]

isnt 10K a bit overboard for a non-competitive dedicated track car, definitely not average mans track car expenditure surely, some people might even say they bought the entire track dedicated car for 10K...

[N1GTR]

Duncans factoring in a few blown RB26's there aswel haha

Go karts sound like a great option when you weigh up the fun vs dollars spent. Also they're very small so space to store them isn't bad, and pretty much any car with a towball will be able to row a small go kart trailer (box trailer that's enclosed)