Project Rb31dett. The Development Of My Open Deck Rb Engine And The Quest For More Torque!

[N1GTR]

There was already a small knock when I started it to drive it to the dyno, which nothing could be done about unless it was pulled apart, so I figured the best move was to give it a bit and see if it got worse. If it got worse then it was a rebuild anyway, if it was the same the plan was to do the dyno then strip it down anyway, it didnt get worse on the street but it did on the dyno. So it was stuffed and up for a rebuild anyway, instead of just hoping it goes away (which wasnt going to happen) I gave it a some on the way there and let the dyno operator go for it - no point having a car like this and being scared to drive it incase I hurt it. So the first run showed I was right and it was stuffed. Oil sample will be sent this week aswel for testing.

End of the day parts can break, and one did, so instead of whinging and trying to blame anyone thats touched the car i'm just getting on with it. Another engine has been in the build for a very long time on the side, so now I will get that finished and fitted. Its got a few things different to this one, including crank, so while the bearing is disappointing, this engine was out soon anyway. I'll put new bearings in it, rings, head service and sell it. Afterall its a built 3L with a head full of tomei valvetrain, so it sure is desirable and a bucketload of fun to drive.

Good luck with the dyno Ian!!! Keep us updated

Edit: Yeah Ian we're coming for those Evo's! One has course record for my class (eventhough its caged, full stripped, race rally rego and cheater tyres).....for now

[Rolls]

any update with the tear down?

[GTRNUR]

I think its Steve-o's engine that was needing the tear down. My engine is still going strong.

Ive been seriously sidetracked with other projects and work lately, and havent had a chance to do anything more to the car. I drive it whenevery I can though.

The latest was that I've installed a catch can and have completed the drivability and final tune at to 0.8 bar @ 7000 RPM. Ive attached a screen shot of the lastest map, which is a 4th gear pull. Full boost happens at 3500 rpm. I am resetting the actuators to 1.1 bar tonight but wont be tuning tonight since having minor eye surgery earlier today.

One other thing is my new fancy hose clamps. This should hopefully solve the issue I was having with blowing hoses off at 1.6 bar boost. Pics attached. They are basically 2 fully stainless marine grade clamps and are spot welded together with 3 straps and a 20mm seperation to accomidate the height increase of the engine. The hope is that the straps will prevent the hoses blowing apart.

Ive decided to do the 1.1 bar tune myself as well, and then book some dyno time once I have that perfected. Im trying to maintain the near stock feel of the car and think its pretty close. Have a look at the RPM that full boost is achieved at. This is without a boost controller being used to ram boost on quicker too.

Im honestly now sure when I will be ready for the dyno now as the engine project has taken a back seat to work and also some major home renovations. Realistically it could be another month.

Edited June 27, 2011 by GTRNUR

[Rolls]

I think its Steve-o's engine that was needing the tear down. My engine is still going strong.

Ah makes sense, no wonder I was confused.

[Marko R1]

I like what u did with your clamps, very creative! When I built my rb30dett, I upgraded my clamps as well and my tuner told me "you are wasting your money, the conventional style clamps we have the least problems with"...so its good to see u have retained the conventional style in an uprated material

[XRATED]

One other thing is my new fancy hose clamps. This should hopefully solve the issue I was having with blowing hoses off at 1.6 bar boost. Pics attached. They are basically 2 fully stainless marine grade clamps and are spot welded together with 3 straps and a 20mm seperation to accomidate the height increase of the engine. The hope is that the straps will prevent the hoses blowing apart.

Wow great minds think alike.... I did this a couple of weeks ago, when I installed my AFM post cooler. I used turbosmart clamps and ss rolled clamp strap.

I'm still loving the engine development, keep it comming.

Cheers

Justin

[GTRNUR]

I like what u did with your clamps, very creative! When I built my rb30dett, I upgraded my clamps as well and my tuner told me "you are wasting your money, the conventional style clamps we have the least problems with"...so its good to see u have retained the conventional style in an uprated material

Ive tried the bolt on clamps with other pipe setups on other cars in the past. While the hose clamp pressure is higher, it also distorts the rubber and often creates a leak where it pinches the rubber. A lipped pipe and a conventional clamp always works best.

I saw another approach on one of the High Octane video's from when they went to Japan. They used normal clamps, but the pipework had 2 bolts welded through each of the 2 pipes at each join. They would then use a metal strap with bolt holes to prevent the hoses from blowing apart. So that way the clamps only had to create a seal, and now deal with forces trying to seperate and stretch the hose as well.

Wow great minds think alike.... I did this a couple of weeks ago, when I installed my AFM post cooler. I used turbosmart clamps and ss rolled clamp strap.

I'm still loving the engine development, keep it comming.

Cheers

Justin

Seems we all us 3lt plus guys share the same brain. I'd been thinking of doing that and switching back to l-jetro to get an easier and smoother tune.

Having just suggested the same thing to BoostdR, as he is having the same mad turbo shuffle from a free rev, and subsequent over fueling. Which also makes throttle response suffer as the map readings are basically all over the place from 1500rpm to when both turbo's are finally done shuffling and are at wastegate boost. A MAF after the cooler solves that issue.

[r33_racer]

Pretty well what you find in Corky Bells book about intercooler piping and how to set it up to avoid weak hose connections.

[GTRNUR]

Long overdue update....

Tuning continues to go well, although I am still having some boost control issues. So far its now mapped up to 1.4 bar, but boost is taking at 6000 RPM down to 1 bar at 7000. Ive tried everything but cant get the eboost street to compensate. It has an rpm based correction option, and sensitivity settings that are supposed to compensate for this issue, but alas its not working.

I am switching to another boost controller on the weekend, which will later be replaced with a new AVCR.

I dont think i'll say the "dyno" word again till I actually have some results to post. I think Im jinxing myself. Every time I think im getting close, some other issue prevents the tune from being completed.

[Marko R1]

pm sent - i can assist with your boost control issue

Long overdue update....

Tuning continues to go well, although I am still having some boost control issues. So far its now mapped up to 1.4 bar, but boost is taking at 6000 RPM down to 1 bar at 7000. Ive tried everything but cant get the eboost street to compensate. It has an rpm based correction option, and sensitivity settings that are supposed to compensate for this issue, but alas its not working.

I am switching to another boost controller on the weekend, which will later be replaced with a new AVCR.

I dont think i'll say the "dyno" word again till I actually have some results to post. I think Im jinxing myself. Every time I think im getting close, some other issue prevents the tune from being completed.

[045HOW]

f**k YEAH! And a bag of rocks,this is awesome!

My interests lie in stroking the 30 but seriously awesome build you've got going. Thoroughly enjoyed reading and hope to hear more good news and see some videos

AVCR is awesome!

Good luck!

[R.3.2.G.T.R]

I think its Steve-o's engine that was needing the tear down. My engine is still going strong.

Ive been seriously sidetracked with other projects and work lately, and havent had a chance to do anything more to the car. I drive it whenevery I can though.

The latest was that I've installed a catch can and have completed the drivability and final tune at to 0.8 bar @ 7000 RPM. Ive attached a screen shot of the lastest map, which is a 4th gear pull. Full boost happens at 3500 rpm. I am resetting the actuators to 1.1 bar tonight but wont be tuning tonight since having minor eye surgery earlier today.

One other thing is my new fancy hose clamps. This should hopefully solve the issue I was having with blowing hoses off at 1.6 bar boost. Pics attached. They are basically 2 fully stainless marine grade clamps and are spot welded together with 3 straps and a 20mm seperation to accomidate the height increase of the engine. The hope is that the straps will prevent the hoses blowing apart.

Ive decided to do the 1.1 bar tune myself as well, and then book some dyno time once I have that perfected. Im trying to maintain the near stock feel of the car and think its pretty close. Have a look at the RPM that full boost is achieved at. This is without a boost controller being used to ram boost on quicker too.

Im honestly now sure when I will be ready for the dyno now as the engine project has taken a back seat to work and also some major home renovations. Realistically it could be another month.

ian, how do you ensure both actuators are opening at the same time when adjusting? testing with an air comp?

[Marko R1]

I am in the same boat with my gtr, massive home reno's means I haven't had time to upgrade my fuel pump and get it tuned with cams dialed in

[GTRNUR]

ian, how do you ensure both actuators are opening at the same time when adjusting? testing with an air comp?

Both actuators share a common pressure line by via a T-piece. I use an air compressor with an air tool connected to the wastegate actuator line, and a precision gauge also T-d into the circuit so I can see whats really happening.

Then starting with the air regulator would all the way back I slowly wind it up the pressure while monitoring the gauge. At the moment I have my actuators adjusted so they both release the pressure on the wastegate flap at 1 bar. Wind up the pressure a little more and both actuators should move in parallel. You can measure that by upping the pressure in steps, and measuring the actuator arm extension. If they dont move in unison then you have a jammed flap or a dud actuator diaphram/spring.

f**k YEAH! And a bag of rocks,this is awesome!

My interests lie in stroking the 30 but seriously awesome build you've got going. Thoroughly enjoyed reading and hope to hear more good news and see some videos

AVCR is awesome!

Good luck!

Cheers!

Update.

Boost control issues are all sorted out, I just had to go back to basics and re-check everything to find the issue. In the end I found a vacuum hose that had split, so all my boost was just escaping to atmostphere. While troubleshooting the issue previously I had replaced that line once before, so I was surprised to see it split again. As it turns out that when running higher boost the engine moves just just enough on its mounts that it was able to break the hose.

With the boost leak fixed the eboost is now working fine and I have been able to finish the base tune. The max boost tune is at 1.6 bar, which it now holds to 7500 rpm no problem. I have also maxed out the fuel system, with the sard 700's at nearly 100% duty at a around 5500 rpm but fuel requirements drop off quickly after 5500 (peak torque), and it reaches 100% again at 8000 rpm.

It is crazy fun to drive at the moment. Dry ashphelt and 2nd gear traction loss starts to happen around 3500 rpm where its already at 1 bar of boost. If I stay into it it just snaps instantly to 7k with complete traction loss. The same thing happens in 3rd at around 5k. The RT615's are on the wear markers after only a week of driving! Im going to need new tires for the drive to Shepperton.

So tomorrow is re-check everything day, followed by dyno time which is booked for 8am Monday morning. For the first time on the dyno I am realisticly hoping for around 400kw, as I know my camshaft timing is still a little out and I havent gotten some cam gears yet. I'll be using my new HD camera to get some good footage of the moment. I can't wait to have some actual numbers on paper!

[Marko R1]

that sounds awesome with the traction loss!

yet another example of how injector duty cycle will be much higher with the larger capacity engine, i was over 65% with 1600's so be sure to leave yourself a nice buffer.

i cant wait to see some no's & footage as well

[GTRNUR]

I didnt quite reach my goals, but I guess you never do first time out. Had no problems though which was good and the car ran flawlessly.

Results for this morning's efforts are:

270kw at 0.9 bar

330kw at 1.3 bar

347kw / 466hp@6300 RPM

620nm@4800 RPM

7118N @ 156km.h

Boost was peaking at 24psi at 4500 rpm and dropping back to 22 at 7000. The eboost needs some tweaking with its correction factors to stop the drop off. AFR's were dipping into the 10's, so it seems my own wideband gear is pretty inaccurate.

Only rev'd to 7000 as well. Ran out of time to do more and decided to pull the pin on tuning more today as ambient temps started to heat up and I really want to put in some cam gears and correct the timing.

No sense in optimising what I know is already a good 6-7 degrees retarded on the intake and exhaust cams.

All dyno runs were recorded in HD video, so i'll be uploading a heap of footage later tonight.

[Marko R1]

this 6-7 degree's retard timing on both cams - is this a good starting point & common across all rb's or more specific to your combination?

[GTRNUR]

this 6-7 degree's retard timing on both cams - is this a good starting point & common across all rb's or more specific to your combination?

The current inaccuracy is because ive used standard cam gears and cant get enough adjustment between using 2 tensioners. (instead of an idler and a tensioner), given the added engine height and longer timing belt.

With my previous R33, 2 degress advance on the cam and 4 retard on the exhaust seemed to work well. R34's have different cam profiles and duration than the R32/33's I think so its anyone's guess as to what is a good starting point.

At this stage I need to get it to 0/0 so I at least know where I am.

So as it is at the moment is far from ideal , it does work at least which is really the main goal. Having it hold together. There was no worries for valve-piston interference as the engine is setup as a non-interference engine thanks to valve pockets in the piston crowns.

One other interesting figure that explains the traction issue is 300kw @ 4600 rpm. It looks more like a V8 NA power curve than a turbo car.

[Tangles]

nice result nonetheless.

great to read the thread,

one question went unanswered though......... Q: Link to VW beetle buildup thread, please??

[GTRNUR]

A few pictures and the dyno sheets. Just editing the video now.

Cam gears have been ordered and as luck would have it, the AVCR showed up today at lunch time.