Project Rb31dett. The Development Of My Open Deck Rb Engine And The Quest For More Torque!

[GTRNUR]

My catch can setup and sump was designed by robbie ward @ rips racing, he insisted on 2 return lines back to the sump and it worked very well on my 400awkw setup. The hoses were 23mm diameter by memory, massive diameter

That makes sense as the catch can is also functioning as an external oil return as well. This wasnt an option for me as I didnt want to pull the engine and weld an external return onto the sump.

Interesting that the external returns setups in the RIPS cars arent visible from any of the pictures or video's Ive seen of his cars. It seems that all the tricks that make for the best systems are made possible by things you cant see.

I considered something similar to the Nismo catch can system, which replaces the rear turbo oil return to the sump with a T return allowing the catch can to drain back to the sump. But just getting access to the rear oil return is a mission on an assembled and fitted engine. The rear turbo has to come out and thats something my laziness just won't let me do.

[fatz]

take the engine pipe off and you can get to it pretty easy

[The Bogan]

So far so good with mine, the Tomie pump now has a external pressure adjustment thingie and the head is feed by a restrictor adjustable feed tapped into the oil galleries through the side of the head, this can be adjusted in 5 minutes, covers have 4 vents, 2 of which are the standard 25 and 2 are also added at the rear simular to a 26, all 4 go to the ext vented catch can which has a return line to the sump, the head has 2 drain backs to the sump.

The can has 2 x 25 mm breather vents w/ filters.

Over board much, but it did have a fair bit of blow by, BUT, the motor was re-rebuilt and blow by now is near non existant.

Ive done a heap (30ish) runs at the drags and so far so good, the proof will be in the pudding when I go to Wakefield and Eastern Creek this month.

Pics of new can and stuff, its good to have the car back.

Look at my horse;

[Rowdy]

Look at my horse;

your horse is amazing!

lol.

i dont suppose youve snapped any pics of the 'christmas tree'?

I remember reading an article somewhere a while back about rb oil control issues, and the author more or less thought it was a product of poor engine rebuilding practices. Apparently the builder would remove the mesh that was supposedly in the factory cam cover baffles, lest the engine lunch itself and the mesh trapped any grit coming its way, then subsequently released it once the motor was rebuilt again.

removing the mesh allowed the oil to make its way out of the motor, and thats why all these catch returns have come about.

i remember readng it at the time thinking surely this cant be the case with every rb that has oil control issues, because theres a damn lot of them.

anyway, this thread is a great read. congratulations on everything!

[GTRNUR]

Thanks Rowdy,

I just happened to have a few more of those hoses around so here is the restrictor pill/wire christmas tree... or more accurately the bubble buster and oil dam.

I should have posted these before because my explanation probably makes a lot more sense now you can see what I am talking about!

MLR, very radical approach you have taken there. Sometimes frustration results in that sort of radical over-engineering, but hey, so long as it works thats the main thing!

Fatz, frankly even taking off piping gets to be a bit much sometimes. Im sure many of us have reached a point occasionally when you just get sick of working on your cars. Fortunatly this project is more or less finished now and I am planning a 'Version 3" build of the engine. I just want to fine tune this package a little more.... and all I've learnt along the way can be built into the next engine before its even fitted to a car.

[zebra]

looking forward to engine #3

[fatz]

i hear ye have paid for my last 3 turbo swaps= you get over it quickly

directly related to how old/sore ya back is that day!

[GTRNUR]

Update.

The engine is now tuned up to 1.75kg/cm boost (24.8psi). Having finally worked out the issues with the setup of my AVCR it now reaches this boost level at 4500 rpm, and holds it till around 6500 where it drops a few PSI to 7500.

I've modified the intake hoses and fitted 1/8th BSPT bungs for the water-methanol injection system. Unfortunatly the injection kit hasnt arrived yet. With any luck it will arrive Monday morning, and I'll get a chance to install it when I am in Sydney before heading out to Shepperton.

The goal with the water-meth isnt so much to add a lot more power, rather I want to use it to lower EGT's and combustion temps a little. Which in turn will lower oil temps and reduce the load on the cooling system overall. This will make the whole setup more reliable overall and allow the engine to make good power without having to be run at its limit.

I checked the catch can again after the re-tune, and still not a drop of oil has made its way there. All servicing is now done and I am ready for the drive to Shepperton.

Im officially on holidays! My first real break from work in 7 years! Just need to pack a bag and load everything in the car.

Looking forward to putting some faces to names on the forum!

[zebra]

Which WMI kit did you go for?

[GTRNUR]

Starting off with a cooling mist stage 1 kit with a 500cc nossle. It will only be switched on when running boost over 1.4 bar. As this is a bit of an introduction to water/meth I want to keep the first setup nice and basic.

Down the track I might run two nossles (150+350), and have them switch on at different boost levels with 2 solenoids. The other option is to use a rising rate regulator to start injection at 115psi and increase injection pressure with boost. I still have a lot to read/research before deciding which way to go. Using a rising rate regulator to produce a progressive delivery would probably produce a more tunable result.

[zebra]

you can get electronic rising rate systems, that can be programmed to increase pressure/flow with boost/rpm/airflow input

[GTRNUR]

you can get electronic rising rate systems, that can be programmed to increase pressure/flow with boost/rpm/airflow input

Yes true I did consider these, but the deciding factor is that this is still a street car. I don't want to go overboard with it and make it too complicated.

Once I'm back from SAU nationals I should really stop messing around with this engine and just enjoy it. I really want to get stuck into the verison 3 engine.

[zebra]

Yeah fair enough.

I did laugh at leave it alone and enjoy it...but build a new engine as well.

Care to share what happens with heat soak and IAT's when running the WMI.

I want to run it on mine simply to kill the heatsoak in the Plenum.

[R31Nismoid]

Can't wait to see this machine in real life

Going to be awesome!

[GTRNUR]

I want to run it on mine simply to kill the heatsoak in the Plenum.

I am still seeing ambient air temps of around 50-55 degrees during driving around on hot days. But I also tuned a mates R34 Vspec recently, and oddly his air intake temps were what was the actual ambient temperature which was around 30-35 degrees.

This has me wondering of the R34 Vspec's have a slightly different wiring loom than the non-vspec R34's and it uses the intercooler air temp sensor instead of the one on the plenum.

Next time I get a chance to look at the tune in his car I will unplug each sensor and determine which is actually being used by the Power FC.

My car has the intercooler sensor as well as the one on the plenum, but the wiring seems to indicate that the ecu uses the plenum sensor. My Nismo MFD upgrade isnt showing the air temp yet either. I'll make the time to sort that out one day.

Can't wait to see this machine in real life

Going to be awesome!

Thanks Ash. Though considering the other cars that will be there, I am sure there will be some far more angry cars to see.

To be honest the car is super conservertive and is really docile like a stock car until the right foot is planted. Also I am no where near a good enough driver to put the car through its paces. If there were some professional drivers going to the event, I'd consider giving them the keys for a couple of laps. Anyone know Mark Skaife's phone number?

[zebra]

Yeah I dunno what temps my ECU is seeing, but even after idling for 10mins with the bonnet up from cold the intake is too hot to touch

[r33_racer]

I got a cooling mist kit for my car as well. They look like a good bit of gear for a reasonable price. I imagine you will get yours hooked up before me, im keen to see how it performs on your car. Keep us in the loop

[GTRsean]

That makes sense as the catch can is also functioning as an external oil return as well. This wasnt an option for me as I didnt want to pull the engine and weld an external return onto the sump.

Interesting that the external returns setups in the RIPS cars arent visible from any of the pictures or video's Ive seen of his cars. It seems that all the tricks that make for the best systems are made possible by things you cant see.

I considered something similar to the Nismo catch can system, which replaces the rear turbo oil return to the sump with a T return allowing the catch can to drain back to the sump. But just getting access to the rear oil return is a mission on an assembled and fitted engine. The rear turbo has to come out and thats something my laziness just won't let me do.

Love your work!

I put the nismo oil seperator kit into my car today. Got rid of my catch can and ugly hoses.

No turbo, or intake or exhaust piping removal. Top stuff is easy. The bottom oil drain fitting I did in 2 hours. Jack up front of car, remove LHS chassis brace bolts, back off RHS ones, undo oil drain hose clamp, undo 2 12mm bolts on fitting, pull fitting off, put in new fitting, connecting up the 2 hoses now, then bolt in etc, check for leaks, drive off!

1/4 drive and 3/8 drives are your friend and uni drives!!!

The restrictor/bubble popper is also there to limit the amount of air drawn into the rear turbo intake pipe. As there is a decent vacuum there under boost conditions due to air filter, AFM etc. That was part of my excess oil in plumbing problem when I removed that section of piping with the restrictor, to put in the catch can setup.

[GTRNUR]

Thanks for the info Sean. I was going to ask you if there was a restrictor in the Nismo catch can setup, and in which hose they put it. Also, if the location of the restrictor is above the height of the catch can, so that collected oil can return to the catch can and then to the sump.

I suspect that Nismo's approach to oil control is more than just a catch can, but also an effort to combat the issues caused by the standard engine's having a restrictor that is too large. So as a 2 parter, it seperates oil from blow by gas and provides an extra return path to the sump for excess head oil.

When you think about it, Nissan should have put this catch can setup on every GTR made Post 1990 because Im sure that more than a few cars in 1989 spun some bearings and blew some oil into the air intakes!

Thumbs up for being a Nismo parts fan as well. Once you start buying nismo product, its hard to consider any other brand. Few other after market parts manufacturers offer components of similar quality and fitment. Im sure you have been eyeing off Bobby's Nismo R34 Rtune bonnet in the forsale section too.

Interesting that you didnt have to pull the front pipe off to allow the lower T'd turbo-drain/catch can return to be fitted. I suspect my setup with the trust split dumps has less room to move due to the length of the seperate wastegate return pipe along the side of the extra long dump pipes. I took one look at it and though... too hard!

[GTRsean]

Yes, there is a restrictor, similar to the stocker. It sits in the upper pipe on the tank, and is an inch from the end of the pipe (sits in top part of hose).

You can see they went with the different height hose entry/exits to help to seperate the oil/mist from the air, like you said, by putting the return line right at the top with the restrictor in there, then that goes back into the rear intake.

Yep, I love the nismo stuff (to the detriment of my wallet), as it's straight forward and has pictures if you can't read japanese, like me!

I have bigger front pipes on mine but I could still just get in ther with only one hand and the uni drives (half asian small hands lol).

Keep up the good work!