Not Happy Jan!

[KrazyKong]

Oh the joys of being a trainee grease monkey lol.

In all seriousness, I received my new dump + front pipe just the other day from GKTech (thank Greg ). Now it should all be bolt on, and it would be if not for the nincompoop muffler guy who installed my Hurricane Hi Flow cat. This was done in Nov last year. Now the idiot didn't retain the front flange, and instead just welded the front pipe to the cat. Great, so it doesn't seem like I can do anything myself, nor will the various muffler places I've called so far be willing to even give me a quote to fix this mess. The guys who know how to deal with the dump pipe end of things, are not welders and or don't have the heavy welding equipment, and the welders who do the plain jane muffer installs, don't have a clue about dealing with the dump pipe stuff.

As you can see, the end of the front pipe is welded to the front of the cat. The back of the cat was welded on too, but it was welded to pipe that still had a flange.

So what to do. If this was all bolt in, then it would simply take time, but I could probably do it all at home. At this point, it seems all I can do is maybe swap in the new dump pipe. Then goto a muffler place and have them install the front pipe, and if need be, weld it. So how does one go about attacking the dump pipe then. Do I need to remove the turbo, hoses and throttle body?

Majorly pissed off right about this and not looking forward to being told I'm going to have to pay to correct this f**kup

[boostn0199]

Just remove the headshield undo the bolts on the back of the turbo and the ones holding dump to front and intstall no need to take the rest out

[Crans]

Put the car up on ramps and just cut the cat out. then use the angle grinder to smooth the flange off. then bolt up your new cat.

[Cartman]

LOL if blokes who work at the exhaust shop your goin to dont know how to "fix" the problem, i suggest you find another one to go to because that is the easiest to fix for any half decent exhaust fitter. 

Put the car up on ramps and just cut the cat out. then use the angle grinder to smooth the flange off. then bolt up your new cat.

it will have to be cut out on the cat side otherwise the flanges wont line up. 

Edited April 3, 2010 by Cartman

[wlspn]

Put the car up on ramps and just cut the cat out. then use the angle grinder to smooth the flange off. then bolt up your new cat.

Don't think he has a new cat, just new dump & front pipes...

But pretty much as suggested. Removing standard dump is just a case of removing turbo heat-shield, undoing bolts to turbo (some may be easier from below), unplugging 02 sensor, removing rear cat bolts, some elbow grease & plenty of swearing. It's not at all hard but can be fiddly due to tight area, etc

Would then chop the stock front pipe close to where the cat is welded on & if you don't have the equipment, take the whole piece to an exhaust shop & get a price.

They will sort it no worries & it shouldn't cost much. Will just cut weld at old flange, clean up the end of the cat & weld a new 3" flange onto the end of the cat. If you do this you may have to get them to fit the dump & front as well...

If you already had a 3" front pipe which you were replacing you could cut the front pipe off & make the flange that was on the rear of the front pipe the new front flange for your cat (if you get me? hard to explain...) but as its stock will only be a 2.5" flange & as I assume rest of system is 3" you don't want that

[scotty nm35]

Lol, stick welded mild to stainless.

Im currently replacing a dump on an Aristo that looks very similar. Cant exhaust shops afford to buy flanges and tig welders anymore?

Its all about making a buck I guess.

[KrazyKong]

Just remove the headshield undo the bolts on the back of the turbo and the ones holding dump to front and intstall no need to take the rest out

Ok cool.

Put the car up on ramps and just cut the cat out. then use the angle grinder to smooth the flange off. then bolt up your new cat.

That cat is a new one and cost me $330 fitted. It was simply installed wrong, but I didn't know that until now. It's 3" from the cat back (cat is 3" too), so was doing the dump + front 3" upgrade.

LOL if blokes who work at the exhaust shop your goin to dont know how to "fix" the problem, i suggest you find another one to go to because that is the easiest to fix for any half decent exhaust fitter. 

it will have to be cut out on the cat side otherwise the flanges wont line up. 

Am trying to find another one Cartman, but first I'm going back to the moron who put this in. I paid $330 fitted for that hi flow cat, and looking at it, the way the sensor was mounted, it's a mess. I doubt the jerk will do anything, but come Tuesday I'll be heading straight to his shop.

Don't think he has a new cat, just new dump & front pipes...

But pretty much as suggested. Removing standard dump is just a case of removing turbo heat-shield, undoing bolts to turbo (some may be easier from below), unplugging 02 sensor, removing rear cat bolts, some elbow grease & plenty of swearing. It's not at all hard but can be fiddly due to tight area, etc

Would then chop the stock front pipe close to where the cat is welded on & if you don't have the equipment, take the whole piece to an exhaust shop & get a price.

They will sort it no worries & it shouldn't cost much. Will just cut weld at old flange, clean up the end of the cat & weld a new 3" flange onto the end of the cat. If you do this you may have to get them to fit the dump & front as well...

If you already had a 3" front pipe which you were replacing you could cut the front pipe off & make the flange that was on the rear of the front pipe the new front flange for your cat (if you get me? hard to explain...) but as its stock will only be a 2.5" flange & as I assume rest of system is 3" you don't want that

My dump and front pipe from what I can see is stock. And that's 2" or 2.5". The cat and everything back is 3". Am happy to hear your thoughts on this and it's reassuring. I just need to find the right shop that gives a damn, but being $330 already out of pocket and from what you see in the pictures, I'm not a happy camper. I was afraid the job was so botched, I'd have to fork out for another hi flow cat since this one's been frankenwelded in.

[tridentt150v]

You won't need anything except another flange. Everything there is recoverable. If I was doing it I'd take the front pipe and cat all off and then cut the cat out and refit and check out how far away it is from the exhaust pipe, you may need a small 3" wedding ring welded in before the flange to make up for lost metal due to cutting etc but I'd doubt it because the lack of a flange means that you have an extra 10-15mm to play with. Then you mark it up so it sits right then take it all off and just spot weld up. Refit and check you got it right, then off and weld up. Refit and jobs done. The biggest problem is getting rid of all that chook sh!t weld and getting where you want to work back to clean pristine condition ie removing all the slag and oclusions.

I'd also cut that sensor adaptor out, clean it up and reweld it back in. A TIG is the best tool for all this.

[KrazyKong]

Finally got the dump and front pipes installed over the weekend. Spent 5 hours with a mate at an exhaust place taking off all the old pipes etc. and installing the new ones. Then had the muffer guy do the final welds etc. But... my bad car karma continues however as I got overcharged and rorted an extra $200 by the exhaust guy I went to. Simple things like nuts and bolts cost me over $70, was double charged for an hourly rate, and then an additional hoist fee and shop fee. Warning to anyone on the Gold Coast, do NOT do business with Scott from Carline Mufflers, Unit 2, 22 Junction Rd, Burleigh Heads, QLD 4220. He's all ok before you agree to do business with him. But then all these sneaky hidden charges appear on the bill and you'll be lucky to even get an itemized bill. Took me two attempts and I'm still in the dark as to what I paid for. Anyway, can only learn from it, but for anyone on the Goldy, don't touch this guy like the plague. He races midget cars too so I'm sure someone on here might have come into contact with him at some point.

Apart from having my money stolen, the workmanship was pretty good. Will take some pics next time I'm under the car. I also put in a new O2 sensor as well which I picked up from Kudos Motorsports for $77. Great thing is it comes with the connector all ready to go...

As far as flanges go, the one that was on there was not a 3", so had to go with 2x new 3" flanges, 2x gaskets plus bolts and nuts. The frankenwelding from my first post was even worse than first thought. The gasket was welded to the flange, the bolt was welded to both on one side, and dear God did it look bad when I finally got it out. Went to use the camera to take pics for everyone, but had flat batteries in the camera

Also had a brace made to take some of the load off the exhaust. Mine seemed to be missing some bracket that attaches to the back of the transmission. So one was cut and welded up, then finally bolted in at the end.

The clearance of the front pipe was pretty close to the car floor. I'm not sure if that will be a problem long term. Will that heat come through the floor or damage it in some way? It's almost close enough it might touch at some point if the vibration is strong enough, but I think with the brace on it won't be moving too much.

[sarz]

Oh the joys of being a trainee grease monkey lol.

In all seriousness, I received my new dump + front pipe just the other day from GKTech (thank Greg ). Now it should all be bolt on, and it would be if not for the nincompoop muffler guy who installed my Hurricane Hi Flow cat. This was done in Nov last year. Now the idiot didn't retain the front flange, and instead just welded the front pipe to the cat. Great, so it doesn't seem like I can do anything myself, nor will the various muffler places I've called so far be willing to even give me a quote to fix this mess. The guys who know how to deal with the dump pipe end of things, are not welders and or don't have the heavy welding equipment, and the welders who do the plain jane muffer installs, don't have a clue about dealing with the dump pipe stuff.

As you can see, the end of the front pipe is welded to the front of the cat. The back of the cat was welded on too, but it was welded to pipe that still had a flange.

So what to do. If this was all bolt in, then it would simply take time, but I could probably do it all at home. At this point, it seems all I can do is maybe swap in the new dump pipe. Then goto a muffler place and have them install the front pipe, and if need be, weld it. So how does one go about attacking the dump pipe then. Do I need to remove the turbo, hoses and throttle body?

Majorly pissed off right about this and not looking forward to being told I'm going to have to pay to correct this f**kup

Wow this is very shocking hope i dont meet exhuast shop like this one.

[Ten Four]

Thx for quoting it again.

To OP: Decat time

[Cartman]

I will say one thing about carline exhaustshops considering i use to work for one.. the owners/operators really do know how to charge but if you ever have any problems you can take it back and they'll fix it no questions asked providing it was part of the original work they did or were suppose to do

you have to understand you were working on your car.. in someones place of business.. i'm suprised he let you do that at all.. things must have been quiet. as there is no way in hell i'd let someone do that in my place of business unless things were dead quiet.

i did similar things with a really good mates boss when i needed a rwc and got sluggged with a decent bill which at least 70% of was workshop hoist hire

[KrazyKong]

I will say one thing about carline exhaustshops considering i use to work for one.. the owners/operators really do know how to charge but if you ever have any problems you can take it back and they'll fix it no questions asked providing it was part of the original work they did or were suppose to do

you have to understand you were working on your car.. in someones place of business.. i'm suprised he let you do that at all.. things must have been quiet. as there is no way in hell i'd let someone do that in my place of business unless things were dead quiet.

i did similar things with a really good mates boss when i needed a rwc and got sluggged with a decent bill which at least 70% of was workshop hoist hire

I only went to Carline because of the fact I would be allowed to work on the car myself. I spent a few weeks searching and looking for an exhaust place that would let me do most of the work myself, and then they would do the welding and whatever I couldn't do.

So I went in on a Saturday because that would be the quietest time to be there. With myself and a friend being there for 5 hours, that 10 hours of labor. To then be charged 2 additional hours, slugged with shop miscellaneous fees, hoist rental on top of already paying an hourly rate that should include everything accept parts is stretching it too far. The trick was this guy kept quiet on what everything was going to cost, and gave the impression it was all good mate, no worries. He was writing off the bolts and nuts I had that came with my pipes, my gaskets etc., and saying just use mine they are better quality. Well that may be the case, but when presented with the bill at the end, I would not have paid $70 just for a few bolts and nuts. I bet they only cost $1 each anyway.

This guy knew I had been screwed over by the first guy who put in my cat, and I was searching around for someone who wasn't going to steal my money a second time. He just screwed himself out of two other confirmed jobs I had lined up for him, and a possible third. Will he care? I doubt it. But I do, and I won't be going near that shop ever again.

[mad082]

I will say one thing about carline exhaustshops considering i use to work for one.. the owners/operators really do know how to charge but if you ever have any problems you can take it back and they'll fix it no questions asked providing it was part of the original work they did or were suppose to do

you have to understand you were working on your car.. in someones place of business.. i'm suprised he let you do that at all.. things must have been quiet. as there is no way in hell i'd let someone do that in my place of business unless things were dead quiet.

i did similar things with a really good mates boss when i needed a rwc and got sluggged with a decent bill which at least 70% of was workshop hoist hire

all the carline stores are individually owned (as i'm sure you are aware) so how they charge will simply come down to how much markup the individual owner wants to put on.

secondly, to the OP, you are very lucky to find a workshop that will allow you to work on your car. i know that in my business i don't let anyone work on their own stuff with my tools, and i'm not dealing in anything big. if i was dealing with cars i sure as hell wouldn't let customers work on their own car because of insurance.

[RBceffy25]

I understand your frustration but, did you not check the work upon paying for it?

I don't know about you but I will not pay for something if its not up to scratch

If you go into a resturant and find a fly in your meal would you just eat it, then pay for it and then say 'dont go there'?

Edited May 11, 2010 by RBceffy25

[Flargh!]

Oh dear god, look at that welding! lolz

[KrazyKong]

all the carline stores are individually owned (as i'm sure you are aware) so how they charge will simply come down to how much markup the individual owner wants to put on.

secondly, to the OP, you are very lucky to find a workshop that will allow you to work on your car. i know that in my business i don't let anyone work on their own stuff with my tools, and i'm not dealing in anything big. if i was dealing with cars i sure as hell wouldn't let customers work on their own car because of insurance.

This guy never mentioned anything about insurance or the like. Had no problem with my friend and I being under the car working on the exhaust.

Just about all the mechanics and shops I've been to lately I've been able to get under the car. The first exhaust guy had no problem with me looking under there, the tie rod mechanic too didn't mention anything either.

I was more than happy to pay for the labour charges and the work was very good quality. But it wasn't until I got home and looked at my receipt and saw it simply said parts and labour for $x and didn't even list what was done or how the price was broken down. It cost me $375 for 2 hours of his labour, and 10 hours of my own and friends labor. Even rounding that up, that's $200 for his labour, and $175 for basically bolts, hoist rental (found this out when I went back to him), so he charged me an hourly rate, then double dipped with a hoist rental on top. If I pay someone an hourly rate, I don't expect to then be slugged with fees because they had to use this or that tool. That's common sense it's included in the hourly rate. Then got charged a shop fee (I have no idea what this is), when we brought and used our own tools and didn't leave a scrap of mess and even took our soft drink cans with us when we left.

The whole idea of going to this guy in the first place was to keep costs down. To do all the work of taking out the old dump + front pipes and cat, then install as much of the new stuff as we could before he could finish things off with the final welds etc. That was my understanding from the get go, do the grunt of the work myself, he'll then just charge me a few hours of labor.

I understand your frustration but, did you not check the work upon paying for it?

I don't know about you but I will not pay for something if its not up to scratch

If you go into a resturant and find a fly in your meal would you just eat it, then pay for it and then say 'dont go there'?

I'm not sure if you're referring to the first guy I went to or the second. The first guy I went to, I had no idea he had done such a lousy job. I wasn't until 5 months later I found out, I had a flange missing, and had a frankenweld muffer system.

The second guy's work quality was very good, but rather it was the way he hid fees and charges and wasn't straightforward in what it was going to cost me. I went to pay with card, and he said no, that's a cash price, so you can probably guess he isn't going to be giving the taxman a cut of that sale.

You are correct, if something isn't right you don't pay to begin with. But at the time, things were rushed, as he was rushing us out the door, and I still had work to do on the car at home before the day was out. But lying in bed that night, I realized hmmm, this guy had overcharged for things and successfully got me to pay more than the job was worth. Some business do that all the time. They present a bill, and if you don't confront or challenge it, they get more money out of you. But if you do find fault with it, they then go oh, my mistake and correct the price to a lower amount. I've had that happen quite a few times in many different situations.

Anyway, at the end of the day it's my fault for not being more on it at the time. I should have challenged things more, but it was presented in a way that at the time it made sense and being that time was of an issue, I trusted what was being put in front of me, and not my gut. So lesson #1, don't trust anyone.

[Beer Baron]

for $400 you should have just dropped it off somewhere and let them do it. instead you spent 5 hours of your time, 5 hours of your mates time and 2 hours of the other blokes time and $400 to get what should have been a $300 job done.

of course he's going to charge you $$$ for working in his shop. that's his job, not yours. no workshop takes kindly to people wanting to come in and use all their stuff and do their own work. it takes money out of their pocket, it ties up their stuff which further costs them money and it's actually a bit insulting as it implies you don't trust them to do the work properly or to charge you fairly for it. in future if you want to do it yourself I'd say do it at home or a mates place don't go to a random workshop and expect to get the royal treatment while you use their stuff to work on your own car. seriously if you thought about this logically you could have saved yourself both money and time by just dropping the car off and letting them do what was needed then picking it up later. you would have saved both time and money and still had a good relationship with the shop involved. they are running a business after all.

the first guys welds are about as bad as I have ever seen in my life. what he did was not that un-common in not bothering to use a flange at one end of the cat but my god the welding work was horrible.

[.:: GimpS-R34 ::.]

i was going to suggest purchasing a new high flow cat.. and on-sell your highflow and dump to someone else.. would be able to re-coup some of the money you spent on the high flow.. and someone would be interested in highflow..

would have obviously lost money, but would have been able to do the work yourself at home.. and prob would have cost ess then what you paid for his services..

You should have made a verbal agreement for use of his time and equipment.. I'm sure there would be legalities of having you in the workshop. Hence not writing down itemised list.. In my workshop, if someone has an accident, etc.. we are in the shit

Also saying that is cash price is bullshit to be honest.. I would have told him i'd need to get the cash and not return.. You can pay with whatever option is available..

[KrazyKong]

for $400 you should have just dropped it off somewhere and let them do it. instead you spent 5 hours of your time, 5 hours of your mates time and 2 hours of the other blokes time and $400 to get what should have been a $300 job done.

of course he's going to charge you $$$ for working in his shop. that's his job, not yours. no workshop takes kindly to people wanting to come in and use all their stuff and do their own work. it takes money out of their pocket, it ties up their stuff which further costs them money and it's actually a bit insulting as it implies you don't trust them to do the work properly or to charge you fairly for it. in future if you want to do it yourself I'd say do it at home or a mates place don't go to a random workshop and expect to get the royal treatment while you use their stuff to work on your own car. seriously if you thought about this logically you could have saved yourself both money and time by just dropping the car off and letting them do what was needed then picking it up later. you would have saved both time and money and still had a good relationship with the shop involved. they are running a business after all.

the first guys welds are about as bad as I have ever seen in my life. what he did was not that un-common in not bothering to use a flange at one end of the cat but my god the welding work was horrible.

I agree. For $400 I could have paid someone to do the work and save my mates and my own time. I was quoted $180 for 2 hours of his labour to do the work.

It was his idea to do the work at his shop, so that when we were finished taking out the old system, he could then do the welds and it would be done.

It didn't cost him a cent for us to be there. I had arranged this date weeks in advance, as he had said Saturdays were normally very slow at this shop. He didn't open up just for me to be there. It was Saturday morning and for the entire 5 hours we were there, he didn't have one customer ring, or come in the door. Nor was he working on any other car at the time. Rather he sat in his chair reading magazines for all of the time he was not actually welding and working on my car. I was never told it would cost me to use his hoist, nor about all the other "special" fees that were tacked onto my bill until after the work had all been done. He wouldn't even let me pay with my bank card, and only wanted cash.

In fact it was his idea to use his hoist, instead of doing the work at home and then driving to his workshop. Add to that there were 3 hoists in his shop. We were using one, the other ones were empty.

There's nothing insulting about it, which I find odd you even stated as such. You weren't privy to the conversations I had with this guy, what he advised me to do to save money etc. My doing the work had nothing to do with me trusting his workmanship, despite being royally f**ked by the first "specialist" I went to. It was a way to save money. He didn't want to touch the turbo, dump and front pipe anyway. He stated that categorically that he doesn't "do" turbos. I've been to several guys over the few few months and no one wanted to deal with it, or didn't have the equipment to weld stainless.

I chose this guy based on my preliminary discussions with him, and what seemed his willingness to help me save money, buy having me do most of the labour. So maybe then you can imagine my being pissed off when I get the bill and realized I could have just paid someone to do the work for me. Heck I could have paid for a whole new cat and saved all the trouble of dicking around with the old one. By all estimates he told me it was going to cost me half of what the final bill was. I didn't go in there knowing it was going to cost me close to $400 to begin with. I wouldn't have bothered.

His estimates and then final charges were miles apart. He wasn't honest once I chose to do business with him, or simply under quoted me when I originally went to see him. That's not my fault, nor is it insulting to second guess a mechanic after being f**ked over in the past by others.

And you're right, the first guy's welds are the worst I've ever seen too. Sadly I didn't know and 5 months went past before I discovered how shit it was. I did go back to him and he said sure, I can fix it for you... for a fee of course!

Not everyone has the luxury of having mechanics and others who are trustworthy and honest. Also I don't think I'm the only one who has been bent over either in dealing with these guys. All anyone wants is a fair go. I know I've had my fair share of crooks posing as mechanics, this only motivates me to try and learn how to do the work myself. At least then I know I won't be cheating myself.

i was going to suggest purchasing a new high flow cat.. and on-sell your highflow and dump to someone else.. would be able to re-coup some of the money you spent on the high flow.. and someone would be interested in highflow..

would have obviously lost money, but would have been able to do the work yourself at home.. and prob would have cost ess then what you paid for his services..

You should have made a verbal agreement for use of his time and equipment.. I'm sure there would be legalities of having you in the workshop. Hence not writing down itemised list.. In my workshop, if someone has an accident, etc.. we are in the shit

Also saying that is cash price is bullshit to be honest.. I would have told him i'd need to get the cash and not return.. You can pay with whatever option is available..

Good suggestions. However it's all done now, so not much I can do about it.

I did have a verbal agreement for how much his labour was going to cost and he quoted me at 2 hours, which in the end was how much I paid him for. It's not his labour I feel cheated about, but rather the other charges I had no incling to even ask about until he fronted the bill. The only wanting cash thing, I don't know if that's a tax rort or a systematic thing in the industry. A windscreen guy I had fix a chip last week only wanted cash too.

I could have driven off and not gone back. I only have $100 in my wallet anyway, and told him I'd have to goto the ATM to get the rest. I was honest enough to go back and pay this guy, and yet still feel cheated in the end.

Edited May 11, 2010 by KrazyKong