Not Happy Jan!

[Beer Baron]

fair enough and when you explain it like that it's hard to fault what you did at all.

clearly the guy misled you at best and straight out lied to you at worst. in that case I'd say be thankful it was 'only' $400 (probably $100 or $200 over charged). the way some guys operate it could have been double that. but he probably chose the maximum amount he thought he could get you to pay without kicking up too much fuss or really looking into things. I know it's hard when presented with a bill that you know is over the top to really do anything on the spot. I understand that. most people are not exactly looking for a confrontation and most mechanics if called on a bullshit bill will get their back up and call you all kinds of flamin mongrel and liar until you pay them. so they put you in an awkward position and count on 90% of people to just take it and pay. especially if it's only $100 or so over of course it's not worth the time and stress to try and do anything about it. it sucks and it happens a lot. I've been screwed before too and for small amounts of money which aren't worth time and aggravation to follow up you just have to kiss the money good bye and then vote with your feet and never go back to the place again. and tell all your mates what happened so they don't go there either.

I hope at least his welding was nice!! that will be some consolation.

[Dioscorides]

It's sad you can't trust many places these days to do decent work for a decent price Good mechanics and decent people are hard to find - but when you do make sure they understand how appreciative you are of their work! Sorry to hear of the troubles though, some people deserve to be shot for their dodgey work!

[KrazyKong]

fair enough and when you explain it like that it's hard to fault what you did at all.

clearly the guy misled you at best and straight out lied to you at worst. in that case I'd say be thankful it was 'only' $400 (probably $100 or $200 over charged). the way some guys operate it could have been double that. but he probably chose the maximum amount he thought he could get you to pay without kicking up too much fuss or really looking into things. I know it's hard when presented with a bill that you know is over the top to really do anything on the spot. I understand that. most people are not exactly looking for a confrontation and most mechanics if called on a bullshit bill will get their back up and call you all kinds of flamin mongrel and liar until you pay them. so they put you in an awkward position and count on 90% of people to just take it and pay. especially if it's only $100 or so over of course it's not worth the time and stress to try and do anything about it. it sucks and it happens a lot. I've been screwed before too and for small amounts of money which aren't worth time and aggravation to follow up you just have to kiss the money good bye and then vote with your feet and never go back to the place again. and tell all your mates what happened so they don't go there either.

I hope at least his welding was nice!! that will be some consolation.

Richard you hit the nail on the head. I could not have described my situation when presented with the bill any better than you just have, so kudos to you

I was put in an awkward position when he fronted the final bill to me with all these mystery charges suddenly appearing. I knew in my head he was cheating me, but tried to be civil about it and convince myself in the end it was close enough since the job was finally done. I'm not good in situations when put on the spot, and end up after the fact going oh shit, I should have done this or that etc. This guy even stated on the weekend when we were working on the car, that he has had run ins with customers before who wanted to punch his face in. And ironically enough, over bills that were too expensive. That's his reasoning for not working on turbos you see. Too many situations where people have called him on his charges.

But for me it made no difference whether I had a turbo or not. He wasn't dealing with any pipe work anywhere near the turbo as that was the reason for me being in his shop in the first place. Take out the old piping, install the new ones, then all he would have to work with is the cat connecting to the front pipe. So turbo schmurbo, he's just an opportunist who thinks since I have a turbo, I'm going to be willing to fork out a few grand for some extra special bolts... you know because I got a turbo! This guy's had experience in this department, so I didn't stand a chance.

But it's irritated me to no end, and yes my feet will do the walking. I was going to take my parents car there for some manifold work, but no chance now. Nor will my friend be going to this guy either, and he was looking at an entire exhaust system to be fitted apart from the end muffler itself. Told my neighbour and he too said he wouldn't be going to him. So that's 3 situations where he's lost business now.

I got up the courage to go back there today... and man did he take a confrontational tone towards me! I didn't accuse him of anything, nor raise my voice at all. Inside I wanted too, but felt the calmer I was the better the outcome would be. I don't think it's too much to ask to get an invoice that actually states the correct prices, and for what I paid for. Took me 4 attempts total to get a breakdown of what I paid for. And he had the nerve to even state he should have charged me more since I was in the shop for 5 hours! Can you believe that!? lol He was the one who gave me permission to be there in the first place, knowing full well that by doing so I was saving myself labour costs. Then said he did me favours by not charging me GST and in the end looked like I'd insulted his firstborn and was ready to reach for his ole trusty shotgun under the counter. What a prick.

Oh you bet I'm telling my mates about this, just like I did with the first dodgy muffer weasel. Also doing my best to tell my mates on here too

[Cartman]

Really dude... sorry that you feel cheated, but.. 180 for 2 of his hours labour, flanges $40(realistic sorta retail) for 2 than the gaskets/bolts and other crap as well as the new hanger for the cat to gearbox i remember you mentioned $30(guestimating on what was used.

your left with $125ish, your basically covering his time spent at the workshop as an hourly rate if you ask me.. if i was wanted to work on a saturday when i knew i had other stuff i could be doin and made to wait 5 hours before being able to do my "2 hours" work i'd be charging at least my own desired hourly rate and than some considering you were working in his place of business which was powered up for 7 hours which only 2 of which he was getting paid properly for, you think its not costing him anything with you being there, but you'd be suprised how much power a workshop can use, not to mention your working in his space that he pays rent on or owns.

im not tryin to snap at you.. but seriously think about all the over heads he has to cover

the workshop hoist i used a while back i got charged $350 for, which included maybe 140 worth of parts and 60 for roady, rest was workshop/hoist rental

all the carline stores are individually owned (as i'm sure you are aware) so how they charge will simply come down to how much markup the individual owner wants to put on.

secondly, to the OP, you are very lucky to find a workshop that will allow you to work on your car. i know that in my business i don't let anyone work on their own stuff with my tools, and i'm not dealing in anything big. if i was dealing with cars i sure as hell wouldn't let customers work on their own car because of insurance.

yeah i am aware they are individually owned however from memory they are all linked together in some way thru the franchise as there was some nationwide warranty crap they provide or offer.. cant remember how it works but i do remember repairing a couple other carline jobs that had somethign to do with it all..

[KrazyKong]

Really dude... sorry that you feel cheated, but.. 180 for 2 of his hours labour, flanges $40(realistic sorta retail) for 2 than the gaskets/bolts and other crap as well as the new hanger for the cat to gearbox i remember you mentioned $30(guestimating on what was used.

your left with $125ish, your basically covering his time spent at the workshop as an hourly rate if you ask me.. if i was wanted to work on a saturday when i knew i had other stuff i could be doin and made to wait 5 hours before being able to do my "2 hours" work i'd be charging at least my own desired hourly rate and than some considering you were working in his place of business which was powered up for 7 hours which only 2 of which he was getting paid properly for, you think its not costing him anything with you being there, but you'd be suprised how much power a workshop can use, not to mention your working in his space that he pays rent on or owns.

im not tryin to snap at you.. but seriously think about all the over heads he has to cover

the workshop hoist i used a while back i got charged $350 for, which included maybe 140 worth of parts and 60 for roady, rest was workshop/hoist rental

yeah i am aware they are individually owned however from memory they are all linked together in some way thru the franchise as there was some nationwide warranty crap they provide or offer.. cant remember how it works but i do remember repairing a couple other carline jobs that had somethign to do with it all..

Cartman, after reading your thoughts it doesn't sound so bad when you put it that way. However it didn't go down the way you're thinking it might have.

I did the bulk of the work with my mate. We removed the old dump & front pipes without snapping any bolts. Quite a feat when they were rusted in there pretty good. Took the whole exhaust out as well. Then we installed the new front + dump pipes, hooked up the rear exhaust again and thus were left with only the cat to re install. From that point that's when the muffer guy actually did anything. Charging me 2 hours labor was already a stretch to begin with as he didn't even do 2 hours of labour, but it was a figure I had already budgeted for and thus simply accepted it. I might add he actually charged me $100 per hour instead of $90 per hour. Another thing I noticed but thought ok, I'll just have to accept it.

As for me working in his shop, that was his idea and recommendation. It would mean the job would be done quicker, my hourly labour costs would be reduced and I wouldn't have to drive the car without an exhaust to his shop. I initially was going to work on the car at my house, then drive it to him minus the front exhaust and he would take it from there. But he suggested I come in and do it there. He never even hinted at that point he would charge me a hoist rental.

All the previous times I'd been in contact with him, he gave the impression he was serious in trying to save me money. The key being, me do all the piping work, and then all he would have to deal with would be the re welding of the cat onto a new flange(s). Turned out I needed 2 flanges. So my total should have been $180 for 2 hours labour, 2 flanges. plus whatever bolts were used.

I'm already covering his time by the hourly rate. The $125 figure you mention by your calculations, I don't then need to be paying him more hourly rates and labour for work he hasn't done. An hourly rate is an hourly rate, so if you do 2 hours, you get paid for 2 hours. I shouldn't have to pay more with a bonus as well.

This guy didn't open the shop just for us on a Saturday. He opens every Saturday and they are normally just as slow as the day I went. That's why I was told to come in on that day, as they were normally days he just played around with his own midget cars on the off chance some guy came in and needed some work done.

It's not my responsibility if he doesn't have work to do for the time he is there. That's how business works. You open up, and hopefully a customer will come in. I shouldn't have to pick up the slack because I was the only customer, therefore I should pay his entire wage for the day. He would have occurred those overheads regardless of whether I was there or not. Now... if he opened the shop especially for me then of course I would be responsible for paying him for all his time, not just the time spent working on my car. But he is open every Saturday from 8 till whenever, which means he may close at 12 or he may close at 4pm.

The whole point of me going to this guy in the first place was to save money due to being screwed over from the previous muffler guy I went to. At the end of the day, the sole purpose of me going to him, and what I was supposed to be paying him for was to re weld in the cat. No one on here is going to accept that re welding in a cat should cost $375.

Cartman I know you're not having a go at me, I'm simply stating what occurred and so on. Hope I'm not coming across as having a go at anyone here either as that's not my intention.

The point is at the end of the day, a good mechanic is going to tell you listen, it might be worth your time & money just putting in a new cat and saving some labour and parts costs. A good mechanic should have enough experience and knowledge to know when to not fix/repair something and to just replace it new. For $375 I could have replaced the pipes at home, then gone to a cat place and had a new cat put in, then still had my "old" hi flow cat to sell. Heck the first guy charged me $375 to put in my frankenweld system to begin with. So it shouldn't at the end of the day cost me the same amount of money to simply cut it off, then re weld it back on a new flange.

Big thanks to everyone for words of encouragement and support. I sucks going to mechanics and getting the short end of the stick, for which this has now occured two times in a row on nearly the exact same part in my car. I very much hope this is the end of my muffler dramas. Cheers.

Edited May 12, 2010 by KrazyKong