Blowing Blue Smoke Apon Cold Start Up.

[JDM_Spirit]

Hey everyone,

Ok, I noticed about a fortnight ago on a cool afternoon on start up my Stag was puffing abit of Blue Smoke? When I reved it I got it to do smoke rings etc.

Made me s**t my self

Theorys;

a, Rings (keep in mind shes only done 79,000km... I HOPE the Ks are true)

b, Valve stem seals (Ive seen them wear out on Neos)

c, Oil was cooked (Oil was only 3000km old)

d, Turbo seal (wasnt constant so I didnt suspect this)

So I went to work,

1st, Spoke to my mech, he said Rings are the LAST thing he would susspect as its low Ks, Not old, standard set up(No big turbo etc).

2nd, Added some Engine Treatment (Just makes the oil thicker) = Smoke went away. So I figured "cooked oil".

3rd, I changed the oil and filter (too eliminate the cooked oil idea).

Here I am 1x week later. Blowing smoke again FML!

Old Oil = No

Rings = High Doubt

Valve stem seals = GOD I HOPE NOT!

Turbo seal = ?

So I started to think... HARD!

New theory;

Possible Turbo Seal.

Upon shut down it is possible it could be slowly leaking oil into the turbo's rear housing. So when I turn it on, it takes Approx. 1 Min to heat the oil and a further 1 min to start blowing smoke from the exhaust. When I rev it for a good minute the smoke clears to a faint mist.

So say it dribbles like 1x drop every 3x hours. So it sits over night for say 9x hours. Thats approx. 3 drops of oil sitting in the Exhuast Housing.

Explains why when I drive around I can smell burning oil, but cant see smoke as its a VERY slow leak.

Plausble?

So, my new plan of attack is;

-Inspect turbo externally for Damp patch/leak.

It is possible for the leak to show externally if seal has failed.

-Allow car to sit over night for a good 12 + hours.

To allow any chance of a leak to... leak.

-Remove turbo + dump and inspect rear housing.

Hopefuly find oil or something to point me in the right direction.

I hope Im right, turbo swap is easy. Finding a decent Neo Turbo @ a decent price is the hard part

Cheers, Aerron

[StealthX]

That's EXACTLY what my car was doin...

Turbo was my cause, bulk oil seeping past the bearings... Fvcked.

Shouldda seen it when I took it off, heaps of oil in the turbine housing...

Good luck!

[JDM_Spirit]

^^ Thanks man, I HOPE its just Turbo

Ok, after several hours of reading and searching Ive had a boost of confidence.

Ive been trying to narrow it down between Valve Stem Seals and Turbo Seals.

Valve Stem Seal Symtoms;

-Blows blue smoke upon Cold start up. = YES

Due to oil seeping past seals, whislt turned off.

-Once warm will settle down to a faint mist if anything at all. = YES

As the excess oil leaked will be burnt up.

-Exhaust WILL smell like burning Oil. = YES

Its bruning oil so of course it will.

-When HOt, at HIGH RPM, If I boost and let off, will plume Blue Smoke. = NO

Due to sudden spike in vacuum, will PULL oil passed Stem Seals.

-Will always perform the above symtom. = NO

As Vacuum is a constant contributing factor during opperation.

-Will foul up Spark Plugs with ash deposits. = NO (Well not that I can see)

Excessive oil will burn in the cylinders

Turbo Oil Seal Symtoms;

-Blows blue smoke upon Cold start up. = YES

Due to oil seeping past seals, whislt turned off.

-Once warm will settle down to a faint mist if anything at all. = YES

As the excess oil leaked will be burnt up.

-Eventually WILL give way and spew oil through the exhaust and potentially sieze. = NO THANKYOU

Lets stop it before it gets this far.

So as you can see, although both possibilites share a couple of symtoms,

the Stag isnt showing half of what the Valve stems should be.

So for the moment I have high(er) hopes.

One last note: I also read, due to the car having such low Kms, it is possible

the Oil Drain could be clogged/blocked and causing excess pressure within the

turbo center, inturn pushing past the seal(s) and causing damage. Eventually causing a constant leak.

Thanks, Aerron

Edited April 12, 2010 by JDM_Spirit

[scotty nm35]

Are you running a catch can?

I had smoke at startup, I changed the turbo and it was still there. Turned out to be pcv oil running down the manifold onto the valves. I run two catch cans now, one for the breathers and a small sealed one for the pcv.

I was amazed how much oil the pcv dumps into the engine, you don't notice once running as the engine is hot enough to burn it off clean. Rather than buy a new pcv valve I also picked up a universal inline one and fit it before the new can, just in case mine was on the way out.

[Stinky Rooster]

I had smoke at startup, I changed the turbo and it was still there. Turned out to be pcv oil running down the manifold onto the valves. I run two catch cans now, one for the breathers and a small sealed one for the pcv.

That was gonna be my suggestion. However this issue is usually brought about by increased crankcase pressure which can be caused by rings being worn or bores glazed. In normal operation there shouldnt be that much oil coming out of the PCV. Only way to eliminate this would be a compression test / leakdown test with a good stethescope or someone who knows what to listen for.

Have you dropped the intercooler and had a squiz inside? If it is the turbo it will be pooling in there. If its the valve stem seals or pcv the oil will be entering the intake at the manifold

[JDM_Spirit]

Re: scotty nm35

Stinky Rooster

Very good points

Ok, should have mentioned, I have a catch-can between the Exh. Cam cover breather and the intake.

I left the Can in the sun upside down so any/all oil could run out. After 3x hours, nothing just a light film

inside.

I know to eliminate 'Rings' I should get the tests done, but, the Smoke goes away(You would never know) and the catch can is virtually empty. Therefore I didn't believe the crack case nor head was pressurizing.

I was thinking of Blocking the PCV valve (as I have so on previous Skylines etc) as the "S" hose is split.

Id prefer the catch can to do all the 'emission' work. Also helps as a 'sure sign' IF something was to fail.

Ie: Rings.

Prior to Turbo removal Checks;

-Check the 'S' hose in a minute to see if its lodged with oil or not.

-Check Cooler for oil. IF Catch can is Empty, the cooler should be clean.

May as well cover all bases

Thanks, Aerron

Edited April 13, 2010 by JDM_Spirit

[lachlanw]

what weight oil have you got in it ? yeah block the pcv

[JDM_Spirit]

what weight oil have you got in it ? yeah block the pcv

Penrite HPR15 SAE 15W-60.

PCV is going to cop a blocking tomorrow

[M I K E]

Are you running a catch can?

I had smoke at startup, I changed the turbo and it was still there. Turned out to be pcv oil running down the manifold onto the valves. I run two catch cans now, one for the breathers and a small sealed one for the pcv.

I was amazed how much oil the pcv dumps into the engine, you don't notice once running as the engine is hot enough to burn it off clean. Rather than buy a new pcv valve I also picked up a universal inline one and fit it before the new can, just in case mine was on the way out.

catch cans are really just a band aid fix for a bigger problem

[scotty nm35]

You mean emissions?

I dont understand, all engines run pcv valves and they all dump their gasses into the intake manifold.

Are you saying they shouldn't be sucking oily gasses from the crankcase? I agree but it isn't very legal to block it.

There's nothing wrong with an inline catch can for the pcv.

[M I K E]

no no, there is nothing wrong with a catch can at all, but you are making it sound like you are catching alot of oil which isn't a good thing

[JDM_Spirit]

Im not fussed on keeping the PCV functioning as the Catch can is still plumbed into the intake. So crankcase gases will still be burned up at some point, one way or another. Plus the Neo Engine Cover keeps everything tidy and hiden

I personally see catch cans as a Prevention/Band Aid. Depends... what got there first? The Can or the Problem?

OK, UPDATE TIME!

Turbo is off, took about an hour using the usual Yelling and Swearing Technique.

Upon inspection, the compressor housing and elbo has a very fine film of oil. But could have been there prior to Catch Can install.

Looking at the rear, no obvious leaks(I was REALLY hoping it would dribble out and FINALLY give me an answer FML! )

Only sign of anything, was a 'rainbow' blemish around the rear wheel and gate. Doesnt tell me much, besides that oil has burnt at somepoint.

Going down to Gavin Woods to visit my Mech. for a final inspection.

I plan on replacing this turbo, as there is abit too much shaft play for my liking.

Could have caused a seal to fail also. Either way, Shaft Play is not a Turbos best friend.

Hopefuly should have another turbo back on Thursday night/Friday. Wont be able to confirm a final fix till all the DW-40 has burnt off and Motor has cooled again.

So Saturday is judgement day. IF it still smokes... I will MOST likely IMPLODE.

[pipster11]

Penrite HPR15 SAE 15W-60.

PCV is going to cop a blocking tomorrow

woah! thats thick stuff for a daily driven car

thats thick enough for a track only car in qld summer (eg 100 deg water temp +)

10w40 is pretty good for all rb's unless they are getting on in age/kms

[JDM_Spirit]

woah! thats thick stuff for a daily driven car

thats thick enough for a track only car in qld summer (eg 100 deg water temp +)

10w40 is pretty good for all rb's unless they are getting on in age/kms

I dont trust the lighter oils considering QLD climate. Ive seen too many imports fail due to thinning oil. Mostly SRs but... thats another story.

The HPR15 is highly reccomended by all performance shops here(unless shes got 0 Kms). Its really not much thicker then 10w40. I dont mind waiting that extra 60 seconds for it to warm up .

Remember, its generally the temp. of the road the destroys the oils properties. Daily driven, traffic, stop and starts. Sump 6" above 40+degree tarmac = .

Im real padantic about driving cold motors. I wont get into it unless I know 100% everything is fine, happy and gooooooooooooooood I always warm my cars up. But not for too long. I also know the downs to idling a car for a long period of time... .

[pipster11]

I dont trust the lighter oils considering QLD climate. Ive seen too many imports fail due to thinning oil. Mostly SRs but... thats another story.

The HPR15 is highly reccomended by all performance shops here(unless shes got 0 Kms). Its really not much thicker then 10w40. I dont mind waiting that extra 60 seconds for it to warm up .

Remember, its generally the temp. of the road the destroys the oils properties. Daily driven, traffic, stop and starts. Sump 6" above 40+degree tarmac = .

Im real padantic about driving cold motors. I wont get into it unless I know 100% everything is fine, happy and gooooooooooooooood I always warm my cars up. But not for too long. I also know the downs to idling a car for a long period of time... .

i changed and put nulon syn 10w14 in mine and it loved it

with a heavy oil at normal temps i dont think the the 60 is gonna thin down enough to do a good job

i'd go the hpr 10 or the sin 10 at a max (think the sin10 is the 10w50)

i've got all the service records for the car in aus and its been running sin 5 (10w40) and its lived in brisbane for a few years

also, sr's are prone to spinning the bottom end but i think its an oil in head retention issue like the gtr's

if your running thick oil you've prob got quite high oil pressure and it could be forcing its way past seals

more isn't more, check out this link: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Go...&start=1280

you can skip the the last few pages really, maybe try some of the GW sougi oil when you need a change next

the only ppl running as thick as yours are fuly built 26's and track cars (20 mins of straight flat out is much different to 20kmh in the warm)

[JDM_Spirit]

Well time for an update and conclusion.

Thursday night:

- Picked up new turbo

Friday:

- Got all new Gaskets, Copper washers, Turbo tabs etc from Nissan (SO glad they had them all in stock)

- Painted all the heat shields matte black

- Blocked/Eliminated the PCV

- Heat wrapped the water feed line (Cause I could)

- Cleaned all the engine bay up (Stuff Ive wanted to do but couldn't due to turbo been in the way)

- Started the Re-turbo'ing of the Stag.......................................................

Saturday:

- Went fishing.

Sunday:

- Finished all the work and went for a drive.

Monday:

- Checked for leaks. All good

- After sitting in the garage for 18hours turned her over. NO SMOKE! Let it run for 5 min, went for a short drive... NO SMOKE! OMFG!!! SO HAPPY!

Oil is still Gold from when I changed it 2x weeks ago. Its about 1000km till next service. So I'll do a engine flush and fill her back up then.

Only difference Ive noticed is that the 'Hair Dryer' sound isn't as loud? Checked over everything. Runs exactly the same. Same spike it always had, some response. Im not complaining

Thanks for reading and the input

RE: pipster11

Im going to swap to HPR10, see how it goes. Should be good, now its getting cooler leading into winter

Edited April 19, 2010 by JDM_Spirit

[pipster11]

Well time for an update and conclusion.

Thursday night:

- Picked up new turbo

Friday:

- Got all new Gaskets, Copper washers, Turbo tabs etc from Nissan (SO glad they had them all in stock)

- Painted all the heat shields matte black

- Blocked/Eliminated the PCV

- Heat wrapped the water feed line (Cause I could)

- Cleaned all the engine bay up (Stuff Ive wanted to do but couldn't due to turbo been in the way)

- Started the Re-turbo'ing of the Stag.......................................................

Saturday:

- Went fishing.

Sunday:

- Finished all the work and went for a drive.

Monday:

- Checked for leaks. All good

- After sitting in the garage for 18hours turned her over. NO SMOKE! Let it run for 5 min, went for a short drive... NO SMOKE! OMFG!!! SO HAPPY!

Oil is still Gold from when I changed it 2x weeks ago. Its about 1000km till next service. So I'll do a engine flush and fill her back up then.

Only difference Ive noticed is that the 'Hair Dryer' sound isn't as loud? Checked over everything. Runs exactly the same. Same spike it always had, some response. Im not complaining

Thanks for reading and the input

RE: pipster11

Im going to swap to HPR10, see how it goes. Should be good, now its getting cooler leading into winter

thats awesome mate, good to hear ou got it sorted

less of a hairdryer noise is probably due to the new turbo->manifold gasket

for oil, i'm going to be changing to gulf western sougi s6000 (have a look on their site) its a class 5 full syn which is what motul 300v chrono but is about $60/bottle (5 litres)

google for a supplier on the gc (autobarn should be able to get it)

check the last few pages on that link i posted, someone on the gc has found a seller so maybe ask him where he got it from

its nothing like the $12/bottle cheapo stuff they sell in supecheap (they sell so much oil to mining companies that they dont advertise the sougi much)